African dwarf frogs are breeding.

[Guppysnail]

I think this is mating. I’m a bit confused on the mechanics of how this will work. 
I want to save any eggs. What am I looking for???

He won’t let go even when she tries to swim away. But the body parts don’t quite meet up how I think they should. Does she drop eggs and he fertilize as they drop? 

@Odd Duck @Patrick_G @Beardedbillygoat1975

[Odd Duck]

Right now, looks like a matter of keeping close tabs until egg laying happens.  Then usually he will shift to a more appropriate position so the eggs get fertilized as they are laid.  Frogs are not terribly, ummm, selective when they decide it’s mating time.  There is a Facebook forum that is called “Frogs With Low Standards” that is all about male frogs, ummm, “hugging” inappropriate species, inappropriate sexes, or in incorrect positions, or outright objects that will clearly NOT help them accomplish their goals.  😝 😂 🤣 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Odd Duck

[Guppysnail]

On 7/29/2023 at 7:30 PM, Odd Duck said:

Right now, looks like a matter of keeping close tabs until egg laying happens.  Then usually he will shift to a more appropriate position so the eggs get fertilized as they are laid.  Frogs are not terribly, ummm, selective when they decide it’s mating time.  There is a Facebook forum that is called “Frogs With Low Standards” that is all about male frogs, ummm, “hugging” inappropriate species, inappropriate sexes, or in incorrect positions, or outright objects that will clearly NOT help them accomplish their goals.  😝 😂 🤣 

🤣🤣🤣

I finally got a moment to read up. This was quite unexpected. She swims to the bottom periodically like the net says. My other blonde frog who is larger and bigger belly has been glass surfing for an hour. They never do that. I’m wondering if he is “hugging” the wrong girl? 🤣 

Also it says they release 1 at a time. If she has released any they are WAY to small for me to see. I’ve had the magnifying glass to her butt for an hour. 🔍 👀 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@Patrick_G has had successful spawns mine have never been successful but that looks very familiar. 

[Guppysnail]

I found floating brown eggs today. I collected what I could see near the front edge. They are TINY. I needed a magnifying glass to see them. I have them in a deli cup floating in a snail tank. 

[Guppysnail]

Lights went on. I was searching for more eggs. Apparently this was not the first spawn. I found a tadpole 😍

 

[Guppysnail]

Well my frogs are very prolific. As of today I have seen 30+ tadpoles from their other breeding about 15-20 are now free swimming. They go through a wiggler phase with a suction gland they hold on things to absorb yolk. 50+ fertile eggs floating from this witnessed mating. Collecting the tadpole is to hard. I do have 2. They stick to the net and I can’t get them out so they are floating in nets 🤣 The cup is what eggs I could collect without injuring a tadpole. 

My understanding is dedicated ADF breeders only get about 10% survival but being an optimist I’m hoping I get at least 1. 
Im feeding the frogs small meals several times a day instead of 1 feeding. Hoping to keep them disinterested in exerting the effort to chase tadpoles. I’m feeding the tads sera micron, 5-50 +50-100 micron golden pearl. They go after it so 🤞🏻

I changed the thread title and moved to journals so I can keep this as s journal 🤗

[Guppysnail]

😡😡😡

Tiny terrorist neocaridina strike again 😡

While I was happily watching my little tadpoles. I watched a shrimp grab one that was still clinging as a wiggler and was either cleaning it or eating it. The tad perished either way. This was minutes after I released the two I netted and the eggs I collected to free float in the other tank. 
 

🤞🏻 fingers crossed some of the free swimmers actually make it. 

[Guppysnail]

@Odd Duck my boy is on a mission. Thankfully he has 3 girls so won’t have to lower his standards to far 🤣

[Odd Duck]

Looks like you’re going to get plenty of experience raising tadpoles!  😆 

[Flipper]

Why is that female already so fat?  He's a real Casanova, huh?!!!  These frogs are so cool.  Are they hard to keep?

[Guppysnail]

So far they are easy peasey.  I feed mostly grindal worms which are an almost no effort culture. I also feed some white worms and some recently purchased aquatic frog and tadpole pellets. Add in she has a belly full of eggs. She releases the eggs and he releases sperm into the water to fertilize the eggs. 
 

I had gotten 2 then 2 more. They were in qt together and 1 was emaciated when purchased (rescued). 
 

In an effort to put weight on her the others got a bit plump. The fact they are so comical to watch eat did not help restrain me from overfeeding 🤣. They are on a leaner feeding schedule now. 

[Guppysnail]

Still have about 15 tadpoles poking about. They either grow slow or these are small because they are new 🤷‍♀️

 

[TOtrees]

Just catching up on the great thread. 

I bred ADF a couple years ago, your pics make me want to get some again. The males certainly can be... persistent. I had the hardest time finding a frog I could sex as male until I saw one in the store that was literally holding onto a female backwards, by the head! "There's my guy" I said and bought him on the spot. [tip, if you ever find the male is too persistent and you need to separate him from the female, just lift them both gently out of the water a bit]

You're clearly getting better survival of eggs in the breeding tank than I ever did. I didn't find the eggs too hard to spot, at least when the adults are on a mission. Mine did their best work overnight, and I'd see the results the next morning. If I didn't collect them really early, they'd be almost entirely gone by afternoon. 

I collected and transferred the eggs using a fine plastic net, like I use for filtering bbs. Yes, they stuck to the net (how can something so wet also be so sticky?), but I managed to get the eggs into a glass jar undamaged, and they hatched well there. I raised the youngest tads on infusoria from a few bits of aquarium plants, and maybe also First Bites (can't recall, it was almost 5 years ago now). Had good survivorship up to the point where they got onto bbs, which they loved. I think where I fell down (ie went from many dozens to not even 1 dozen) was I ended up keeping too many in too small a jar as they grew. But it was early in my fish journey, and I'd be able to spot and fix that issue now. In a properly filtered 5 or 10 gallon growout, with lots of water changes, I'm sure I'd have had much better survival. With a little trial and error to find a system that works for you, there's no reason you shouldn't get nearly 50-75% survival. 10% survival by breeders is so callous, IMO. But, it's their business, and we ultimately reward them by buying. But I digress...

Here's a preview of the babies at around 2 months 👽 (based on my photo metadata):

An interesting thing I found with these guys (which I also see with my dart frog tadpoles) is that metamorphosis (when they lose their tails) seems to be under really tight chronological control. Meaning, the tads don't morph to frogs at a certain size, but rather at a specific age, regardless of how big or small they are. That means you can outperform commercial breeders by growing bigger frogs faster, as compared to what fish stores buy. So feed them well!!

[Guppysnail]

@TOtrees this is all such fabulous information. I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to share so much detail. 
I just had a heavy salted 5 g tank open up. I’m going to strip and clean it. Then set it up bare bottom tons of hornwort. I have a microfauna culture that has become wall to wall top to bottom hornwort with a pothos rooting. That should help. I have been feeding sera micron. The thing they are feeding on in th parent tank is brown diatom. This time of year every year my tap water gets down right nasty from agriculture runoff. So I always get a good brown diatom layer. I have seen a few free swimmers actively eating sera micron. 
 

My boy has 3 girl so I hope he is not overly amorous to any specific one. If he is the lift info is great to have. 
 

The hornwort and duckweed is thick in the parent tank. As well as rocks the adults cannot get between and things they can’t get behind. 
 

THOSE BABY FROGS ARE SO CUTE 😍

Do you remember what temp you kept them at. I can’t do jar method. Hubby keeps the house at 67-68 over summer. Even my tree frog has heat. 
 

The parent tank was 74. I turned it to 75 when I saw tads. I turned the tank I netted the eggs and tads to up to 79 because the net said 80. None in there have survived unless they are still hiding. 
 

The 10% survival seemed incredibly harsh to me. But they breed on large scale not each little tad being coddled as precious cargo 🥰

Im getting ready to hatch a batch of the smaller San Francisco bbs today. I think a few might be able to do the 18 hr mark collection ones. 
 

Thank you again. I’m incredibly grateful. 

[TOtrees]

For the fry/tads, I did ~1L glass jars in a water bath (half full 10 gallon tank), with a heater running around 78 and a small circulation pump. This was before I got onto sponge filters, and I only knew that a typical HOB (which is all I had/knew) would chew them up. So I went with glass jars in the water bath. Looking back at the one pic I have of that setup, I don't think I even had air in the jars. Daily pwc's though. 

I expect something like @Dean's famous and getting famouser all the time fry system would be a winner for these little guys, both for hatching eggs and raising tads. 

[Guppysnail]

I saw 10 this size this morning while feeding live BBS. A bunch still 3 different smaller sizes. 

 

 

[Guppysnail]

 

[Guppysnail]

[TOtrees]

I hadn't really thought about this until now, but... Frogs as a group are a pretty opportunistic/cannibalistic bunch. With the different sizes of cohorts of babies, I fear that very soon you'll start losing the smallest ones 😞  And I wouldn't be surprised if the adults start culling anything they encounter near the bottom. Doesn't hurt (us) so much when it's new new babies, but it feels somehow different or worse when it's the juvies/youngsters. Cover cover and more cover. 

[Guppysnail]

@TOtrees I agree. I see the adults trying to hunt them. Fat little pigs they are. They get live worms of some type daily. Tons of shrimplettes to hunt. I’m hoping they are full enough not to be overly ambitious about their hunting activities.
Most of the top is stuffed with hornwort and duckweed. There is only that small open area. 
Right now there are easily 50-75 smaller tads visible at any given time. 
Sunday the girl who buys my critters wholesale is coming to pick up a load for Keystone Clash. That will open a smaller tank I can start moving them into. Right now it’s standing room only in both fishrooms so I’m just keeping my fingers crossed they survive until then. 
Inhave noticed the adults are so clumsy it seems that’s where my biggest losses are. They knock the tads about as they crash through everything. 

[Guppysnail]

Look at him go. I still have about 10 this size I can see. There is tons of hornwort and duckweed. 
I sent tons of critters wholesale out yesterday so I have open tanks. If I get time when I get home from the DMV today I’m setting up a tank for them 🥰

 

[Guppysnail]

it’s just a start. I put a few tads in to see how they handle the transition. I had to skim them up with a cup. The really big ones I’m having a terrible time getting. Hide well little dudes. 

[Guppysnail]

I’ve managed to get about 25 tads to the new Tad-pool 😊

Sone of the larger ones were already venturing down from the hornwort in the parent tank. In the Tad-pool alone I guess they realize there is no predators. They are all becoming very active through the entire water column. I found one big one that looks clear. So I’m hoping I get at least one blonde survivor 🥰

 

[Odd Duck]

On 8/21/2023 at 12:15 PM, Guppysnail said:

Look at him go. I still have about 10 this size I can see. There is tons of hornwort and duckweed. 
I sent tons of critters wholesale out yesterday so I have open tanks. If I get time when I get home from the DMV today I’m setting up a tank for them 🥰

 

He looks so full and fat that he’s just drifting around, then looked like he was working his mouth just hoping one of the BBS would randomly swim in!  😆 He may have been gulping one but I couldn’t see it.  😂 🤣😍