Discus/American Cichlid Tanks Journal

[Shadow]

On 8/7/2023 at 12:17 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

@Shadow it looks so amazing. The music in this video wasn’t as sexy as the other video’s music. 😂 That’s ok though.

 

🤣😂 I will try better next time

On 8/7/2023 at 5:09 AM, Guppysnail said:

Not my idea but it sounds lovely. 

Couldn't remember and took a shot at you saying it as you give me awesome suggestions all the time! 😁

On 8/7/2023 at 6:43 AM, Lennie said:

I was too sleepy to comment last nite. Now here I am

 

I loved the tank. My only suggestion would be, maybe adding some dwarf sags around stones and stuff to complete the naturalistic look. What do you think? 

Like this:

 

 

 

Also I would probably crowd only the background with vals and not sides, potentially shooting them roots everywhere can be messy 

So I planted mostly to one side to give a flow line similar to what MD is doing in the second video above. The rest are mostly planted along the back but I didnt want to hide the back wall too too much as I have a bubble wall coming to replace to two air stones. I will, however, move more from that one side to the back & YES, that is a great suggestion with the dwarf sags...think I have some in a couple of my tanks that I can transplant maybe, if not will order some once the weather cools in a month or so. I have had 6 plants completely melted to nothing in a row. I am done ordering anything plant wise for the summer and am putting a lot of warnings with any fish coming in. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/7/2023 at 5:16 PM, Shadow said:

and am putting a lot of warnings with any fish coming in. 

What do you mean?

[Shadow]

On 8/7/2023 at 4:31 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

What do you mean?

When I order fish from anyone online whether I know them or not, I ask for overnight shipping(I will pay for it) & FedEx preferably as both my mail lady and UPS driver love to keep the packages on the truck for the entire day without any AC. In our weather here on the Gulf of Mexico, the cooling packs would be long melted and likely hot water by the time they reach me in the evening. I have lost now 6 plant orders and 1 pair of fish since the warm season took hold, some of them will not reimburse you at all. Some have been soooo nice about it and helped out ie @SydneysAngels, who if you arent following on YT, you should. Such a polite and friendly human with the cutest lil one that likes to make appearances from time to time. His angels are also soooo gorgeous! All 8 of my blues I got from him are so perfect and getting bigger daily. 🙂 

But yea, I just basically ask before buying if they can assure me overnight shipping preferably FedEx. Plant wise, its a crap shoot but at least most refund me. My Tiger Lotus I got today from a great plant source was completely mush...thanks USPS! So, yea, no more plants for me for a bit as I am tired of losing em. 😞 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/7/2023 at 6:49 PM, Shadow said:

When I order fish from anyone online whether I know them or not, I ask for overnight shipping(I will pay for it) & FedEx preferably as both my mail lady and UPS driver love to keep the packages on the truck for the entire day without any AC. In our weather here on the Gulf of Mexico, the cooling packs would be long melted and likely hot water by the time they reach me in the evening. I have lost now 6 plant orders and 1 pair of fish since the warm season took hold, some of them will not reimburse you at all. Some have been soooo nice about it and helped out ie @SydneysAngels, who if you arent following on YT, you should. Such a polite and friendly human with the cutest lil one that likes to make appearances from time to time. His angels are also soooo gorgeous! All 8 of my blues I got from him are so perfect and getting bigger daily. 🙂 

But yea, I just basically ask before buying if they can assure me overnight shipping preferably FedEx. Plant wise, its a crap shoot but at least most refund me. My Tiger Lotus I got today from a great plant source was completely mush...thanks USPS! So, yea, no more plants for me for a bit as I am tired of losing em. 😞 

That sucks.  I live in FL and I try to avoid plant/livestock orders in the summer.  Some people put a cooler on their front porch with a big sign for delivery drivers to put the boxes into the cooler if they know they are getting a shipment.  But that doesn't help much if the boxes are on a hot truck all day.  Did you hear about the UPS drivers getting heat exhaustion?

I try to find my local fish stores and buy plants and animals there whenever I can, but will resort to big box stores if the local stores don't have a good/healthy selection.

[Shadow]

On 8/7/2023 at 6:58 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

That sucks.  I live in FL and I try to avoid plant/livestock orders in the summer.  Some people put a cooler on their front porch with a big sign for delivery drivers to put the boxes into the cooler if they know they are getting a shipment.  But that doesn't help much if the boxes are on a hot truck all day.  Did you hear about the UPS drivers getting heat exhaustion?

I try to find my local fish stores and buy plants and animals there whenever I can, but will resort to big box stores if the local stores don't have a good/healthy selection.

Unlike Florida, we have zero LFS here besides one or two Petcos/Petsmarts. There is one LFS about 45 mins from here, but they weren't very friendly or stocked super well either. There are a couple more into the panhandle more towards Destin, but that is almost 2 hours away. Worth the drive if they have something I am looking for, but for just plants or something of that nature, not so much. Hoping we get an earlier temp reduction since we've been killed with over 100 F temps for a month now nearly. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/7/2023 at 8:12 PM, Shadow said:

Unlike Florida, we have zero LFS here besides one or two Petcos/Petsmarts. There is one LFS about 45 mins from here, but they weren't very friendly or stocked super well either. There are a couple more into the panhandle more towards Destin, but that is almost 2 hours away. Worth the drive if they have something I am looking for, but for just plants or something of that nature, not so much. Hoping we get an earlier temp reduction since we've been killed with over 100 F temps for a month now nearly. 

Here's an aquarium club finder. Perhaps that could be an option. https://www.aquariumcoop.com/apps/store-locator

@Guppysnail finds hobbyists near her using the Band app also.

[Shadow]

On 8/7/2023 at 7:15 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Here's an aquarium club finder. Perhaps that could be an option. https://www.aquariumcoop.com/apps/store-locator

@Guppysnail finds hobbyists near her using the Band app also.

@Guppysnail if you have some group suggestions for Band, lemme know. I have used it for shrimp and plants before. 

On 8/7/2023 at 7:15 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Here's an aquarium club finder. Perhaps that could be an option. https://www.aquariumcoop.com/apps/store-locator

@Guppysnail finds hobbyists near her using the Band app also.

Yea I have used it before, not much near my zip unfortunately

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/7/2023 at 8:19 PM, Shadow said:

not much near my zip unfortunately

Not near mine either.  Closest one is 2 hours. 

I used the Nextdoor app to adopt out mystery snails to nearby hobbyist neighbors before though.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Shadow]

On 8/7/2023 at 7:22 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Not near mine either.  Closest one is 2 hours. 

I used the Nextdoor app to adopt out mystery snails to nearby hobbyist neighbors before though.

You near the Panhandle? Let's start our own! 🙃😉😂

[Guppysnail]

Your best bet is to search clubs near you and then search band for those even if they are hours away. Also search your city and aquariums fish aquatics etc. my Bands are ones near me. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/7/2023 at 8:24 PM, Shadow said:

You near the Panhandle? Let's start our own! 🙃😉😂

I am not, I'm central.. 😐

Edited August 8, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Shadow]

On 8/7/2023 at 7:28 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I am not, I'm central.. 😐

We will just start "The Rest of Florida and Alabama Too Fish Club" or TROFATFC for short. 🙃😂

[Shadow]

So I got the Hygger bubble bars and wasn't impressed. Bubbles were so small you could hardly see them so def took away from the "bubble show" so to speak. Between both sponge filters and both air stones, I am pretty sure I have enough oxygen going. Will just use them on smaller tanks, maybe my Mom's. Tank has gotten super clear and I did some of the re-planting, also ordered some more accent plants to finish off the scape as @Lennie suggested. Just waiting to add the first fish. Thinking the red whiptails and whichever smaller fish I decide on will be first additions. Hopefully @Guppysnail has some awesome success with their GBRs so I can snag some off em! 🙂 🤞

Anyways, will do a small video later week once I am done planting and also what fish have been decided on to go in to start!

[Guppysnail]

On 8/12/2023 at 3:17 PM, Shadow said:

has some awesome success with their GBRs so I can snag some off em!

I no longer have the original parents the GBR came from. These two I just put together. They did spawn a day or so ago…on the gravel 😝 so I need to wait for them to learn some manners and put their eggs on something that I can pull out of the tank 🤣

[Shadow]

On 8/12/2023 at 2:28 PM, Guppysnail said:

I no longer have the original parents the GBR came from. These two I just put together. They did spawn a day or so ago…on the gravel 😝 so I need to wait for them to learn some manners and put their eggs on something that I can pull out of the tank 🤣

Well...some day hopefully 😅

[Lennie]

Yes! @Guppysnail has some insane looking bully pair rn. Im excited for their babies too 😍 even if I will never be able to get them

 

red lizards can be a lil fragile. They were the only fish I had a single loss after introducing them to my established tank. I know @CJs Aquatics also had a loss. We thought maybe they are a bit fragile until they settle in a new tank.

maybe a better idea to introduce them second rather than first

[Shadow]

On 8/12/2023 at 2:34 PM, Lennie said:

Yes! @Guppysnail has some insane looking bully pair rn. Im excited for their babies too 😍 even if I will never be able to get them

 

red lizards can be a lil fragile. They were the only fish I had a single loss after introducing them to my established tank. I know @CJs Aquatics also had a loss. We thought maybe they are a bit fragile until they settle in a new tank.

maybe a better idea to introduce them second rather than first

Thanks for the heads up! Will add the schooling fish first, ones that are a bit heartier and then get those when the temps drop some. I also found a LFS in the town next to me that I forgot about. Its a little large store feel but locally owned and they have a real nice aquatics section, very large. They told me they buy from both overseas and stateside breeders, although the girl wasn't sure if they bought from local sources. Might go back in and buy a pair of Electric Blue Rams I saw chilling, then once @Guppysnail gets some. grab some of theirs as well. 🙂 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Shadow

[CJs Aquatics]

Playing catch up, did someone say red lizards?🙃 I still stand by @Lennie’s statement about them being fragile upon introduction as well as nerve racking fry raising, but they are such a beautiful, amazing, peaceful fish that it’s hard not to add them to every tank 

[Shadow]

On 8/12/2023 at 2:41 PM, CJs Aquatics said:

Playing catch up, did someone say red lizards?🙃 I still stand by @Lennie’s statement about them being fragile upon introduction as well as nerve racking fry raising, but they are such a beautiful, amazing, peaceful fish that it’s hard not to add them to every tank 

They look so amazing CJ! I really cannot wait to add them in. @DansFish has some and I trust them greatly, so prob will get from them.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Shadow

[CJs Aquatics]

@Shadow can’t wait to see them, feel free to reach out if you run into any snags, I’m no expert but have kept them for some years now and have bred them although we are still dialing that in, @Lennie is very well versed in them also

[Lennie]

Here are some pics from  my tank/breeding setup!

Edited August 12, 2023 by Lennie

[Shadow]

On 8/12/2023 at 2:48 PM, CJs Aquatics said:

@Shadow can’t wait to see them, feel free to reach out if you run into any snags, I’m no expert but have kept them for some years now and have bred them although we are still dialing that in, @Lennie is very well versed in them also

Yep Lennie originally suggested them to me instead of plecos since the risk of higher temps and all. I am planning on getting some Corys as well...Sterbais prob.

[Shadow]

@Odd Duck I have been chatting with @Lennie about Discus food and also about this homemade food Jorge Posada from Wattley Discus makes, gives to their Discus. Keep in mind that Jorge Posada is regarding as one of the OG Discus breeders after Jack Wattley. Think he has been keeping them for 40 years and has been running Wattley Discus since before the passing of Jack Wattley, so he has a ton of experience. Lennie and I were chatting though about how honestly out in nature, where would Discus get all this kind of protein and also, garlic...is it or is it not great for fish?

Ingredients of this food...

- 2lb beef heart (could be substituted for deer pig, turkey, or even lamb heart) - 1lb salmon - 10 ounces spinach - 1lb krill meal - 8 cloves garlic - 6 multi vitamins

- 2lb beef heart (could be substituted for deer pig, turkey, or even lamb heart) - 1lb salmon - 10 ounces spinach - 1lb krill meal - 8 cloves garlic - 6 multi vitamin

[Odd Duck]

@Shadow Garlic is a debatable issue, IMO, because there just aren’t enough studies on enough species to recommend it across the board.  There is some decent information that it can stimulate the appetite and thereby stimulate faster growth.  But there is also information in many (including fish and mammals) that too much can be toxic to the liver, kidneys, or (well documented in mammals) causing problems with the hemoglobin in the red blood cells clumping and causing dysfunction to the point of not being able to deliver oxygen to the cells properly.

I think the biggest problem is - how much is too much?  And without studies, we just don’t know.

Now, am I going to argue against a guy that essentially came up initially doing grunt work (from what I’ve always read), then gradually took over Wattley discus and has been successfully raising discuss for decades?  Naw, that would just be stupid.  While I know a lot about animal nutrition, most of that is in mammals, birds, and reptiles.  I’ve been reading more on fish nutrition, but pretty casually, not intensively.  My impression overall is that the 8 cloves in over 4.5 lbs of food isn’t going to be an excessive amount so I think that recipe is pretty safe if the proportions are kept the same.  For instance, 4 ounces of heart meat, 2 ounces of salmon, 2 ounces of krill meal, 1.25 ounces of spinach, 1 clove of garlic, and 3/4 of a multi-vitamin.

Do I think heart meat (of whatever species) is something that wild discus get?  Only a bit of fish heart meat when they eat small fish whole.  But beef heart has certainly been a persistent protein source for discus.  I suspect it started because it used to be very cheap per pound since not many people want to eat beef heart.  I have no idea on relative cost now since it isn’t something I’ve purchased in about 40 years or so (yes, I made some beef heart concoctions in my early fishkeeping days) but I know it’s often a bit of hassle to find as it won’t be in every grocery store these days.

It sounds like a reasonably easy recipe with virtually zero risk of parasites for the fish (which I would bet was another reason to not feed other protein sources back in the day).  I think if you want to use the recipe it’s certainly likely to be solid enough to raise fish quickly.

I do wonder if they’re feeding their selected breeding fish that they want to live as long as possible the exact same recipe as the fish they raise to sell?  For instance, pet rabbits get very different protein/fat/fiber/carbohydrate ratios than meat rabbits do that are raised for market.  Meat rabbits are raised to get big quick with a good fat ratio since rabbit meat tends to be very lean.  They want them quite fat for market.  Pet rabbits need to stay lean to live longer, healthier lives.  Just a little food for thought.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Odd Duck

[Shadow]

On 8/16/2023 at 7:13 PM, Odd Duck said:

@Shadow Garlic is a debatable issue, IMO, because there just aren’t enough studies on enough species to recommend it across the board.  There is some decent information that it can stimulate the appetite and thereby stimulate faster growth.  But there is also information in many (including fish and mammals) that too much can be toxic to the liver, kidneys, or (well documented in mammals) causing problems with the hemoglobin in the red blood cells clumping and causing dysfunction to the point of not being able to deliver oxygen to the cells properly.

I think the biggest problem is - how much is too much?  And without studies, we just don’t know.

Now, am I going to argue against a guy that essentially came up initially doing grunt work (from what I’ve always read), then gradually took over Wattley discus and has been successfully raising discuss for decades?  Naw, that would just be stupid.  While I know a lot about animal nutrition, most of that is in mammals, birds, and reptiles.  I’ve been reading more on fish nutrition, but pretty casually, not intensively.  My impression overall is that the 8 cloves in over 4.5 lbs of food isn’t going to be an excessive amount so I think that recipe is pretty safe if the proportions are kept the same.  For instance, 4 ounces of heart meat, 2 ounces of salmon, 2 ounces of krill meal, 1.25 ounces of spinach, 1 clove of garlic, and 3/4 of a multi-vitamin.

Do I think heart meat (of whatever species) is something that wild discus get?  Only a bit of fish heart meat when they eat small fish whole.  But beef heart has certainly been a persistent protein source for discus.  I suspect it started because it used to be very cheap per pound since not many people want to eat beef heart.  I have no idea on relative cost now since it isn’t something I’ve purchased in about 40. years or so (yes, I made some beef heart concoctions in my early fishkeeping days) but I know it’s often a bit of hassle to find as it won’t be in every grocery store these days.

It sounds like a reasonably easy recipe with virtually zero risk of parasites for the fish (which I would bet was another reason to not feed other protein sources back in the day).  I think if you want to use the recipe it’s certainly likely to be solid enough to raise fish quickly.

I do wonder if they’re feeding their selected breeding fish that they want to live as long as possible the exact same recipe as the fish they raise to sell?  For instance, pet rabbits get very different protein/fat/fiber/carbohydrate ratios than meat rabbits do that are raised for market.  Meat rabbits are raised to get big quick with a good fat ratio since rabbit meat tends to be very lean.  They want them quite fat for market.  Pet rabbits need to stay lean to live longer, healthier lives.  Just a little food for thought.

WOW! Thanks so much for the feedback! 

Yea, I have been watching him on other Youtubers channels, including I am pretty sure once with Cory, for a while now. Here recently they have found a camera man so to speak and they are doing more videos. I will say that their Discus, from everyone I have seen that has gotten them from Wattley, look to be top quality and super reasonable price wise. Plus I have watched several unboxings from Youtubers that have gotten fish from them and also watched their boxing process, seems they run a really top top operation. But, def wanted to see what your thoughts were on the mixture he made and I agree, I often wonder too if this is meant to "plump em up" as you were eluding to as with ducks, rabbits or whatever in the meat use side.