Is RODI recommended for freshwater?

[anewbie]

On 6/29/2023 at 12:46 PM, Dork Fish said:

I have been reading up on RODI systems and it appears that you have to dose minerals back into the water if you use an RODI.

Is there any real advantage to a RODI over just using, for example, a Brita filter?

I am on city water and chlorine is used (which is easy enough to remove).

This depends on the tap and the type of fish you keep. Some fishes require very hard water and some fishes require very soft water - there is no right decision here without knowing the species you intend to keep. While some sa wc require very soft water - some tank raised (bred in aquariums) sa fishes also require very soft water - it all depends on the species. Most live bearers for example require medium to hard water and putting them in pure ro water would be extremely unhealthy. Conversely Licorice Gourami need very pure water. Some fishes require very soft but mineral rich water - it all depend son the species.

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Don't focus on ph focus on kh/gh. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by anewbie

[Dork Fish]

@nabokovfan87 Is Lennie's observation above, about KH, correct?

@anewbie  I am new to fish keeping, so I don't even know what kind yet LOL

Since I will most likely make a mistake or five at first, I would prefer: cheapish, easy to keep, but still cool looking fish.

[Dork Fish]

Also checked the water again today, still   pH: 7.8 | GH: 7 | KH: 4

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/2/2023 at 12:20 PM, Dork Fish said:

@nabokovfan87 Is Lennie's observation above, about KH, correct?

@anewbie  I am new to fish keeping, so I don't even know what kind yet LOL

The PH is a factor of waste and KH. More waste, uses the KH, which causes the PH to drop. If the KH is lessened slightly using the buffer mentioned, that lets you control that KH level a lot easier. The nice thing about the acid buffer is that you can control it by 1 degree very easily.

What Newbie mentions is very true and the important thing here. Focus on KH as a means to evaluate your PH.

[Dork Fish]

@nabokovfan87 Okay, sounds like I would be fine to use 40 pounds of blue seiryu in a 75 gallon tank (without acid wash). Will just have to evaluate my parameters closely for the first 3 months to see what they do.

Is there any risk in a pH spike after using the pH buffer? or is it pretty stable as long as KH is good?

No need for a RODI for now in my case.

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/2/2023 at 1:06 PM, Dork Fish said:

Is there any risk in a pH spike after using the pH buffer? or is it pretty stable as long as KH is good?

Depending on what you're dealing with specifically you shouldn't ever need any sort of a PH buffer.  Again, KH buffer has some use case, PH buffer is just a premixed KH buffer.

I wouldn't use anything. I would control stuff via water changes.

Do your normal maintenance and see what the tank parameters are.

[anewbie]

On 7/2/2023 at 2:20 PM, Dork Fish said:

@nabokovfan87 Is Lennie's observation above, about KH, correct?

@anewbie  I am new to fish keeping, so I don't even know what kind yet LOL

Since I will most likely make a mistake or five at first, I would prefer: cheapish, easy to keep, but still cool looking fish.

Well if this is your first aquarium skip the ro and skip mucking with the water - just pick a fish that like your enviornment. If it is hard then live bearers (swordtails, platies, guppies) or some species of african rift lake - but you should figure out just how hard your water will be. A lot of people put wonder shells and stones like yours in the water to make it harder for these sort of fishes....

[Dork Fish]

@anewbie Yeah one of the thing that I am trying to figure out is the type of stone that I want to use. Apparently 'Elephant Skin stone' and 'Sieryu stone' raise pH and I think GH (I am still learning about water parameters so I could be wrong). Since my pH is high from the tap, I am a little concerned about dropping 150 USD on a bunch of stone that might be too much for the tank.

Exploring options on bringing my pH lower than 7.8 from the tap, looks like these stones might make that more difficulty.

[Dork Fish]

@anewbie To add to that, I know generally speaking most fish in the hobby enjoy a pH somewhere around 6-8 (depending on the fish), 7 of course being neutral pH. The 7.8 from my tap would be fine with some wood to lower pH, while plants would raise pH. I would hope that this would balance each other out and make my water at least remain at 7.8.

However, I am not sure if the above would balance out or if one would factor would dominate the other (between raising and lowering pH). My concern is that the stone would definitely raise the pH and make my already slightly basic pH even more basic.

I would love to get down to a stable 7.2 or so. which would theoretically open the door a bit as to the type of fish I could keep.

A side note is that due to limestone in the area, our water is naturally on the basic side, even at my LFSs.

@nabokovfan87 @Lennie Would love your input also: Am I on the right track with my logic above, or if I am missing something? 🙂

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/2/2023 at 6:27 PM, Dork Fish said:

Apparently 'Elephant Skin stone' and 'Sieryu stone' raise pH and I think GH (I am still learning about water parameters so I could be wrong).

Mountain stone. Elephant skin stone. Rhino stone. Seiryu stone, grey aquascaping stone, etc. They all could be the exact same stone depending on what you're talking and from who.

They come in different shapes, get called one thing, etc. It's not like we are saying this is "granite" but everything is under some form of marketing terminology or Japanese word translated poorly.

So... All that to say, yes they all would or COULD impact water parameters. If I drop a pebble in the ocean it won't do much. If I add a cup of water to a gallon of stone it will definitely be a bit calcium rich.

Ultimately, pick something you enjoy visually and then get the tank going. see what exactly is going on with the water after cycling and then we can talk fish.

Some species enjoy 6.8-7.4 while another family of fish might do best at 7.0-8.0.  It's not going to be something where you can say 6-8 for PH alright cool. There is always a range of things that fit. The goal is to make the Hobby enjoyable, fun, relaxing, and something where you want to wake up every day and be in awe of your tank.

Whether that takes one amazing stone or 100 of them is all relative.

This is my tank this morning. Not a ton of stone. But I'm finally happy with how that stuff on the right looks. I might move it, but at least it's better than it was.

[Dork Fish]

@nabokovfan87 Ah okay I was doing it backwards then and aiming for a pH range to hit rather than seeing where the tank goes and then deciding fish. Thanks for clearing that up 🙂

I will have to figure out which stone I like with the torpedo sand (leaning toward elephant skin stone, but not sure if it will contrast the white sand enough) and see where my parameters end up. I am adding bio-stratum and lava rock too so no idea how it will all go LOL

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/2/2023 at 7:41 PM, Dork Fish said:

I am adding bio-stratum and lava rock too so no idea how it will all go LOL

Plus wood. There's a lot at play and it may all just balance out in the end!

[Dork Fish]

@nabokovfan87 All I know is that I love the 'Gold Nugget Pleco', 'Hillstream Loaches', 'clown loaches' and either a 'dojo loach' or 'khuli loaches'.

The rest I have no idea about, aside from my current beta LOL

[Andy's Fish Den]

Being a beginner fishkeeper, I would not worry about messing with water parameters. I would put together, aquascape the tank how you like it, use your tap water, dechlorinate of course since you have city water. 99.9% of the city water in the US you will be able to keep fish alive in. Is there any LFS in your area? Even with an hour drive? because, there is a good chance that they have very similar water parameters to what you have. Go in and see what they have, ask them what fish do good in the local water and if there are some species that don't. I worked in an LFS a several years and I would see people come in all he time, new hobbyists. They would look up a fish that they wanted, books and the internet would say the fish needed pH 6.5-7. Our local water, whether city or well would run 7.4-7.8. They would think that they had to buy all kinds of chemicals to bring the pH down and they were constantly chasing the pH levels. In the meantime, the fish is struggling because they would bounce the pH from 6.5 to 7.2 within a day or two. I would tell them to stop dosing chemicals, the fish will be fine in the tap water, fish are pretty resilient, as long as the water parameters are stable. A lot of problems arise when you start messing with the parameters and there are swings in pH, KH, GH. 

I keep a wide variety of fish, from wild caught angels, corydoras and discus to Lake Tanganyikan cichlides, wild type live bearers, and others, all of my fish are kept in my tap water, which is a well source. My pH will range from 7.4-8.0 throughout the year, KH and GH will both be 7-10 and my TDS runs 250-300. the only time that I use RO water is when I bring in new wild caught fish, and then I acclimate them to my tap water over a few water changes.

[anewbie]

On 7/2/2023 at 9:14 PM, Dork Fish said:

@anewbie To add to that, I know generally speaking most fish in the hobby enjoy a pH somewhere around 6-8 (depending on the fish), 7 of course being neutral pH. The 7.8 from my tap would be fine with some wood to lower pH, while plants would raise pH. I would hope that this would balance each other out and make my water at least remain at 7.8.

However, I am not sure if the above would balance out or if one would factor would dominate the other (between raising and lowering pH). My concern is that the stone would definitely raise the pH and make my already slightly basic pH even more basic.

I would love to get down to a stable 7.2 or so. which would theoretically open the door a bit as to the type of fish I could keep.

A side note is that due to limestone in the area, our water is naturally on the basic side, even at my LFSs.

@nabokovfan87 @Lennie Would love your input also: Am I on the right track with my logic above, or if I am missing something? 🙂

Again I would ignore ph and focus on kh/gh. Also tap normally has an additive that raises the ph and if you let tap sit out overnight the ph will usually drop a bit. This is to protect older pipes which will react to lower ph water.

[flyingcow]

On 7/2/2023 at 3:47 PM, Dork Fish said:

Also checked the water again today, still   pH: 7.8 | GH: 7 | KH: 4

So with parameters like that, the world is pretty much your oyster. Unless you're looking at fish on the extreme ends, you should have to mess with your water at all. A reasonable amount of rock won't raise it too much, and most fish are way more tolerant of elevated pH than you'd think. The pH will also drop a bit as the tank ages and gets some nitrate levels up. 

I mess with RO because 1) I'm a nerd, and 2) I have insanely hard water that also has heavy metals in it. RO is a project in and of itself, and if you're in this good of shape, I wouldn't mess with it.

[Dork Fish]

@anewbie yeah after letting the water sit, it went from 8.4 down to 7.8 pH. 🙂

Better than nothing, so I'll take it LOL

[Galabar]

When I "re-mineralize" my soft tap water, I shoot for around 3-4 KH and 7-8 GH.  So, I think you've got great tap water! 🙂

[Dork Fish]

@Galabar Well that is a relief LOL

Will see what happens once I have everything in the tank. Not sure if pH will go up or down.