Gravel to Sand

[FishRBeautiful]

Someone started a topic on changing substrate but different situation. I’m not sure if I’m supposed to add my dilemma to that discussion or start a new topic so starting new.

I have a 20 gallon with gravel that I want to put sand in. The gravel is from Menard’s and has been in my tank since I started fishkeeping in January. I bought pool filter sand at Menard’s and washed this week. Others online say this sand is safe but I’m a little nervous. I can’t afford expensive aquarium sand so considering this alternative. 

My big question is how in the world do I change from gravel to sand with all those live fish in there? Is there a way to minimize debris and dust? And is it a good idea? And how do I make sure not to  kill the good bacteria? I have a hang on back filter. 

[ScottieB]

Ok, I think I got you. 
You will hear all sorts of stuff about pool sand but people in the hobby have used it for a long time.
 

I’ll share with you one way to change out the substrate:
First thing to consider though it’s not gonna happen overnight. In fact the longer you take to switch it out the better. 

Using something like a sour cream (or some other small plastic) container cut down one side and then cut the bottom out. So now your left with a plastic rectangle about 3-4 inches high and hopefully long enough to span almost across the tank from front to back. Then stick it down into the gravel about 2-3 inches from one of the sides. So it’s basically a small divider in the gravel. Using a tube and a siphon (or just scooping by hand) remove the small section of gravel that you partitioned off. Fill that small section with your pool sand. 

During the next week, make yourself another plastic divider just like the first. After the first section of sand has been in for a week or so partition off another section of gravel and repeat and the process, this time removing the gravel between plastic dividers. Wait about a week or so between gravel removals and eventually you’ll be fully sand. 

Obviously this means leaving in the fish in the tank the whole time and leaving you filter running too.

Not sure I’m doing a great job of explaining but I hope that helps. 

 

[FishRBeautiful]

Ok, thank you! That’s a great idea! I was thinking I don’t know how I’d do the whole project at one time because it would take forever. I might take your advice and switch it out during a water change when the water is slightly low and filter is off. And I wouldn’t want to remove my fish. They’d all freak out and probably get ich or something. Do I need to worry about getting stung by the cories or Kuhli loaches if I’m digging in the substrate? The gravel is too heavy for them to burrow in

[Tanked]

This has been a revelation!  I haven't kept them for years, and had no idea that Corydoras could sting.  I don't think you have to worry about your cories attacking you as long as you allow them plenty of room to escape.

As to the substrate question:  A serious gravel vacuuming before you begin removing each section of gravel will help a lot towards limiting cloudiness. 

I've never heard anything negative about pool sand that does not apply to all sand. The biggest mistake people make when washing sand/gravel is that they don't keep the sand stirred up long enough for running water to wash away the finings. Vigorously washing small amounts of sand until the water runs clear will be worth the extra effort.  

[AndEEss]

 Pour in sand, do repeated partial water changes with dechlorinated, temperature-matched water. Don't overthink this.

[FishRBeautiful]

On 5/25/2023 at 8:17 AM, Tanked said:

This has been a revelation!  I haven't kept them for years, and had no idea that Corydoras could sting.  I don't think you have to worry about your cories attacking you as long as you allow them plenty of room to escape.

As to the substrate question:  A serious gravel vacuuming before you begin removing each section of gravel will help a lot towards limiting cloudiness. 

I've never heard anything negative about pool sand that does not apply to all sand. The biggest mistake people make when washing sand/gravel is that they don't keep the sand stirred up long enough for running water to wash away the finings. Vigorously washing small amounts of sand until the water runs clear will be worth the extra effort.  

I read quite a few times that Cories have spines or something that cut and also can release a poison but I’m not sure if the poison thing is proven or a theory. Also I read Kuhli loaches have stingers under their eyes but I don’t think it releases a poison.

Love the gravel vacuuming advice! You saved me a lot I bet. I’ve been overfeeding my fish so my cories and loaches don’t starve so my gravel is always nasty when I vacuum. A few days ago, I found out about and got sinking catfish/loach food/tablet things. Problem is my platies found out and go eat them after they finish their food and get fat. Oh well!

I take my large (5 gallon) and small (maybe 2 1/2 gallon) rinsed fish tank cleaning bucket outside. I fill the large one with maybe 3-5 inches of sand or gravel that I plan to use for substrate at a time. Then, I turn my crazy high pressure hose nose on full blast so the substrate gets stirred and mixed with the water. When the bucket is full, I dump the dirty water out and repeat like 10 times. Clean substrate goes in my small bucket and maybe some other clean bins so it can be spread out and dry if needed. Haven’t found out if the sand will dry yet though.

[Bev C]

  Best wishes @LoveMyPlatys  I went through this having fish in the tank   getting ready for real plants and sand, I put some of the old gravel in 2-4 pantyhoses  … And left in the tank

I started pulled the rest gravel out in sections ...  Wait a few days, do another section after I did the all the sections … I kept the pantyhose with the old gravel in it for 2–4 weeks and then pull the pantyhose gravel out one at a time ,,, it took a little longer doing that way, but it kept the fish safe ,,, and kept the tank safe ....

Edited May 25, 2023 by Bev C

[Tanked]

On 5/25/2023 at 12:43 PM, LoveMyPlatys said:

I read quite a few times that Cories have spines or something that cut and also can release a poison but I’m not sure if the poison thing is proven or a theory. Also I read Kuhli loaches have stingers under their eyes but I don’t think it releases a poison.

 

Their ability to "sting" comes from barbs on their dorsal and pectoral fins. The sting has been described as somewhere between a skin irritation and a bee sting.  Toxicity seems to vary depending on species.  In as much as the fish are not aggressive and have even been described as friendly, just avoid trapping them with the bare hand! 

 

[FishRBeautiful]

On 5/26/2023 at 8:54 AM, Tanked said:

Their ability to "sting" comes from barbs on their dorsal and pectoral fins. The sting has been described as somewhere between a skin irritation and a bee sting.  Toxicity seems to vary depending on species.  In as much as the fish are not aggressive and have even been described as friendly, just avoid trapping them with the bare hand! 

 

I may have heard that. At first, I didn’t get Cories because I was too scared to even clean the tank. But I love them so much I took the risk. No stings so far. Now I have loaches and a pleco and probably get more catfish. They’ll probably end up being some of my favorite fish. I’ll be sure not to trap them. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/24/2023 at 8:15 PM, LoveMyPlatys said:

My big question is how in the world do I change from gravel to sand with all those live fish in there? Is there a way to minimize debris and dust? And is it a good idea? And how do I make sure not to  kill the good bacteria? I have a hang on back filter. 

Bacteria is in the filter.

Bacteria will be strongest where you have the most oxygenation and flow.

I switch substrates a lot and I don't bat an eye at doing it.

1. Fish go into a bucket (or buckets) and I add an air stone and a lid with tank water.

1b. Hardscape and plants go into a bucket so they don't get damaged.

2. Siphon as much as you can while you drain the tank down as far as you can. Leave a little bit of water if you're scooping out sand.

3. Scoop out the substrate into a bucket using a cup, net, or wet-dry vac.

4. Clean off the glass and do whatever you need before you reverse things.

5. Add in your new, rinsed substrate in whatever layers you want to. Add a little bit of water to get it wet.

6. Replant while the tank is filling up, get the hardscape back in there.

7. Let it run for a little bit to clear any cloudiness and initial gunk. Usually 30-60 minutes.

8. Add the fish back in.

On 5/25/2023 at 9:43 AM, LoveMyPlatys said:

I read quite a few times that Cories have spines or something that cut and also can release a poison but I’m not sure if the poison thing is proven or a theory. Also I read Kuhli loaches have stingers under their eyes but I don’t think it releases a poison.

It is very rare for them to release the toxin. The spines only really come into play when they are under intense stress (i.e. being eaten)

Corydoras generally will scatter and swim away before they do anything. People who recommend to release the toxin prior to shipping will put them into a bag and shake it violently to scare them.

Needless to say, I don't recommend that and try to just reduce stress. Corydoras are great fish.

You can rinse and dry the old substrate to reuse it if that is something you'd want to do as well.

When you put the fish in the buckets before you do all the work, I put them to the side somewhere quiet so they don't get spooked. It helps reduce stress and they can just relax.

[FishRBeautiful]

That’s another great method. I’ll definitely keep that in mind for down the road when my youngest is old enough to be left to herself for a while. I’m sure I’ll do this more than once as I’m enjoying fishkeeping. 
I did have a thought and was debating about doing sand on one half and gravel on the other. Because what if the algae the fish & snails eat is all in the gravel. They might starve. LOL I’ll do some research. Might be too complicated to gravel vac. 

And about the catfish, that’s good to know . I’m good about trying to minimize the stress on my fish as much as possible. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 5/24/2023 at 11:15 PM, LoveMyPlatys said:

Someone started a topic on changing substrate but different situation. I’m not sure if I’m supposed to add my dilemma to that discussion or start a new topic so starting new.

I have a 20 gallon with gravel that I want to put sand in. The gravel is from Menard’s and has been in my tank since I started fishkeeping in January. I bought pool filter sand at Menard’s and washed this week. Others online say this sand is safe but I’m a little nervous. I can’t afford expensive aquarium sand so considering this alternative. 

My big question is how in the world do I change from gravel to sand with all those live fish in there? Is there a way to minimize debris and dust? And is it a good idea? And how do I make sure not to  kill the good bacteria? I have a hang on back filter. 

I did a 2” sand cap. If you leave the gravel dirty it’s better for plants. Their roots can take up all that delicious goodness. I did use pool filter sand. It’s heavy enough that you can even gravel vac it.

If you have water in the tank here’s a trick.

I filled bottle halfway with sand, then added water, shook it, pour off the dusty water. I did that a whole bunch of times for each bottle of sand I added to the tank.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Sand inspector

Edited May 27, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[FishRBeautiful]

Your aquarium looks awesome! I wonder if the algae left in my gravel would cause problems if I did a sand cap instead. But some plants would love the gravel for roots also. How would you add new plants without mixing sand and gravel though?

And I have bad news. My daughter’s cat peed in the sand I had washed and was almost finished drying so I have to buy more and start over. A warning to all the cat owners. Ha! I was drying it so it didn’t grow mildew or something because I wasn’t going to start the project right away. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 5/27/2023 at 7:53 AM, LoveMyPlatys said:

My daughter’s cat peed in the sand I had washed and was almost finished drying

Omg. That’s hilarious. I mean, kind of sucks for you but the picture in my head of the cat scratching around like, this is awesome! Somewhere new to pee! Never peed here before! 😂 🍋 

I went deeper (2”) with my sand cap and I plant ONLY in that top layer. In other words, plant shallow and the roots will find their way to the gravel. If you have delicate stem plants and they don’t want to stay planted, wrap a little plant weight around the base.

I don’t think the algae will be a problem long term because it will no longer get any light. Take a clean paper towel and wipe between the gravel and front glass before you start so it looks nice.

Edited May 27, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[FishRBeautiful]

LOL He’s fat and lazy and thought he didn’t have to go downstairs now. I only know because I saw 4 paw prints and a wet spot. And to his credit, it’s the exact container I use for his litter box downstairs, color and all. 

Thats great advice and makes perfect sense. 
 

 

[Huckleberry]

I may be a little late to this but you can just use a solo cup to scoop up your washed wet sand  and lower it slowly into the tank. The sand will stay in the cup. Once it's at the bottom just dump it out. Chic-in-of-thesea capping method works great. I wouldn't worry about gravel vacing or alge under the sand. If you don't like the thick layer in the front of the glass just push your existing gravel back an inch and fill it with sand, then top the rest.

[FishRBeautiful]

Thanks for the input! Everyone has such great ideas. I want to try them all. Probably will try at least a few at some point in life. I actually just got new sand and plan to wash it tomorrow. Bought play sand and pool filter sand. If play sand is too dirty, I don’t have to go back to the store (Town is 35 minutes away) for pool filter sand. The play sand seems course so I’m not sure if my Cory’s and Kuhli loaches will like that. 

I got to thinking if I put sand on top of gravel, some of it will drop down into and mix with the gravel. The problem I thought of is if I ever want to use that gravel for a gravel bottom tank. Still undecided.

[FishRBeautiful]

Actually, looking at the picture posted by Chick-in-of-theSea. My gravel is pea gravel (from Menard’s) so it’s bigger than that. So maybe that’s why sand might sink into mine. I could test it out in a small bowl with just a little bit and see if that happens. 

[FishRBeautiful]

Follow up! I used navokobfan’s method this time to switch my substrate. The problem is my water is cloudy and filter isn’t running enough water. I took the HOB apart. A slight layer of gunk but no clogs. Do I need a new filter system? This is set to all the way open. I’d just get a sponge filter except this tank kit came with a hole in the lid for the HOB. And I’m not going to town until Friday (It’s 45 minutes away)

 

Do I need to hook up my extra air pump for now?

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/14/2023 at 12:27 PM, LoveMyPlatys said:

Follow up! I used navokobfan’s method this time to switch my substrate. The problem is my water is cloudy and filter isn’t running enough water. I took the HOB apart. A slight layer of gunk but no clogs. Do I need a new filter system? This is set to all the way open. I’d just get a sponge filter except this tank kit came with a hole in the lid for the HOB. And I’m not going to town until Friday (It’s 45 minutes away)

 

Do I need to hook up my extra air pump for now?

Are you using fine floss or Polyfil?  

Tagging @nabokovfan87

Edited June 14, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[FishRBeautiful]

 

On 6/14/2023 at 11:33 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Are you using fine floss or Polyfil?  

Tagging @nabokovfan87

I buy the TopFin filter refills

I have filter floss but if I switch it out now, I’m afraid I’ll kill all the good bacteria. I literally changed all the substrate and almost all the water

Edited June 14, 2023 by LoveMyPlatys

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/14/2023 at 12:37 PM, LoveMyPlatys said:

It’s the 

I buy the TopFin filter refills

OK.  Might take a few days to clear up.  If any of the plants are live plants, make sure your cartridges do not have carbon. Carbon removes nutrients the plants need to thrive. If the filter output is decreased, some particulates may have gotten into the pump. You may have to rinse the pump under tap water.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[FishRBeautiful]

By the way, I did a test corner of sand on top of the gravel. By the end of the day, all of it sunk down into my gravel. It was a good idea though

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/14/2023 at 12:42 PM, LoveMyPlatys said:

By the way, I did a test corner of sand on top of the gravel. By the end of the day, all of it sunk down into my gravel. It was a good idea though

Thanks. We have different gravel types, mine wasn't the smooth pebbles, it has edges, if that makes sense.