White cloud minnows breeding

[beastie]

So, I got some white cloud minnows (gold variety) back in December. I read how they are easy fish to breed, no issues breeding in the community tank, how some eggs always survive,...

It is March and I have zero fry. I would appreciate any feedback on what to improve or how to ensure some breeding. I see a lot of flashing behavior, I see them in the moss a lot of the time and yet still nothing. I even added salvinia and hornwort on the surface, though with the large flow they are not doing that well. Temp is 22°C

I feed once a day, frozen daphnia, frozen cyclops, frozen plankton, live artemia, now live microworms, hikari micropelets, dennerle crusta gran, fluval bug bites,...

Or am I still too impatient?

Thanks

PS sorry about the glare, took the most recent pictures right now, ofcourse the window is making it harder

[Theplatymaster]

@beastie

its possible they are not breeding, however i think something else may be happening.

they

A.breed

then

B.most of the eggs get eaten

C.the remaining eggs hatch, a few of those fry get eaten or starve

then

D.you have a few fry remaining, they are just REALLY small, and are VERY good at hiding, so they can be hard to see.

thats just my theory.you could be completely right.

 

[PineSong]

@beastie, your tank looks great, by the way. I'm in the same boat as you. I started out with 5 gold WCMMS and after 1.5 years I still had 5. 

I felt bad because lots of videos and other folks' forum posts made it seem they automatically breed like crazy. I posted about it here and others said that they had success by having your fish spawn in a spawning mop and then removing the mop every other day to a separate tank so the eggs and fry can survive there without the adults. Here is one video that shows this method, there are several of them on youtube I believe:

 

[TheSwissAquarist]

@WhitecloudDynasty

[beastie]

On 3/15/2023 at 3:33 AM, PineSong said:

@beastie, your tank looks great, by the way. I'm in the same boat as you. I started out with 5 gold WCMMS and after 1.5 years I still had 5. 

I felt bad because lots of videos and other folks' forum posts made it seem they automatically breed like crazy. I posted about it here and others said that they had success by having your fish spawn in a spawning mop and then removing the mop every other day to a separate tank so the eggs and fry can survive there without the adults. Here is one video that shows this method, there are several of them on youtube I believe:

 

Thanks, I dont have a separate container at this moment, so I guess waiting and seeing will be it :)) 

[WhitecloudDynasty]

Ok I see 2 problem, you got too many breeder in the aquarium. I recommend 2 pair.

2nd problem your aquarium is too big for new born fry to find food. Some may survive but it'll be harder to target feed

[beastie]

On 3/16/2023 at 1:42 PM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

Ok I see 2 problem, you got too many breeder in the aquarium. I recommend 2 pair.

2nd problem your aquarium is too big for new born fry to find food. Some may survive but it'll be harder to target feed

Well I do have a 40l shrimp tank with the indostomus paradoxus now that I bet would work as a fry raising, since I do the microworm feeding and artemia for the armored stickleback anyway and the fry wont outcompete the indostomus for few weeks at least. Tank has same temp, similar pH as main tank, just no water flow.

Will it work, if I move the pair in a breeder box in this tank and let them drop the eggs in here? when should I remove the pair from main tank and also when remove after spawning?

Also at what size wont the adults eat the fry

Thanks

 

[TheSwissAquarist]

On 3/16/2023 at 1:42 PM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

your aquarium is too big

I know this isn't constructive, but you can never have a big enough aquarium. @beasties is gorgeous!

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 3/16/2023 at 10:03 AM, beastie said:

Well I do have a 40l shrimp tank with the indostomus paradoxus now that I bet would work as a fry raising, since I do the microworm feeding and artemia for the armored stickleback anyway and the fry wont outcompete the indostomus for few weeks at least. Tank has same temp, similar pH as main tank, just no water flow.

Will it work, if I move the pair in a breeder box in this tank and let them drop the eggs in here? when should I remove the pair from main tank and also when remove after spawning?

Also at what size wont the adults eat the fry

Thanks

 

https://youtu.be/JVSxISBbmOg

On 3/16/2023 at 11:56 AM, TheSwissAquarist said:

I know this isn't constructive, but you can never have a big enough aquarium. @beasties is gorgeous!

For a display yes. But raising fry it gets harder to feed them.

[Cmike15]

I plan on trying to raise some now that i'm back to fertilizing regularly. More plant cover means more fry can survive their parents and more microfauca to munch on. 

On 3/17/2023 at 1:56 AM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

https://youtu.be/JVSxISBbmOg

For a display yes. But raising fry it gets harder to feed them.

This reminds me of all the Betta raising vids i watched how if using a larger tank for the fry to have the water low. Fry are small so they won't find the food if it's too far away. 

[Miska]

On 3/16/2023 at 8:42 AM, WhitecloudDynasty said:

Ok I see 2 problem, you got too many breeder in the aquarium. I recommend 2 pair.

2nd problem your aquarium is too big for new born fry to find food. Some may survive but it'll be harder to target feed

What if you create a few hiding spots and more scattering opportunities and then use tweezers to target feed those spots? 

If that could not work: What size would you recommend for folks wanting to breed them?

Thank you for you time. 

[WhitecloudDynasty]

On 3/17/2023 at 11:58 PM, Miska said:

What if you create a few hiding spots and more scattering opportunities and then use tweezers to target feed those spots? 

If that could not work: What size would you recommend for folks wanting to breed them?

Thank you for you time. 

Yes you can target feed them, but it's harder. You'll have to make sure they eat enough 3 to 5 times a day. 

 

Always recommend a 10 gallon about 75% filled and 2 pair 

[Reneenay]

I wish my Vietnamese white cloud minnows would stop breeding! Lol. I have the opposite problem. I agree that your tank is too big and baby minnows are tiny tiny. They got lost trying to find food or got sucked into the filter...but not eaten. At least not by the parents. White cloud minnows do not eat their babies. 

[beastie]

Thanks guys

I will buy/make the breeder box, have them spawn in my 40l shrimp tank and then move them to the main one once they are large and fed and wont be beaten by the current. Will keep you updated on the progress 🙂 Hoping to buy a breeding box today, will move the first pair in there when I can

[beastie]

Sooo, I bought this tiny breeder box, so like a liter or so, since I need to isolate the white clouds from the shrimp. I put a very nice plump female and the flashiest male in. How long do I have to keep them there to have any sort of success? I feel it is too small to safely keep them there overnight, so will like 4 hours do? Thanks

[beastie]

I want to open this up to not start a new topic

I target bred the minnows in another tank and the fry joined the parents. I would still like to attempt to breed the minnows in this tank however. I did some redesign and the whole back of the tank is moss. Like 20 cm high 5 cm thick moss from the ground to the middle of the tank. The tank has surface plants ( salvinia). There are over 30 minnows and 7 panda garras, who I doubt would eat the fry (though ofcourse would eat the eggs). The minnows breed nonstop.

I could periodically take out sections of the moss and try to see if some eggs hatch from it, but is there any way how to create an environment where the fry would survive and have enough food? The minnows are super fat so I would ideally like to cut back on the feeding, I feed daily with a one or two day break. I could try what I am attempting with luminatus, sprinkle some hikari first bite on the surface of the tank every day.

Any other tip? If the fry just hid in the moss they should be able to find food there, but if they go to surface, there is a strong flow. Should I direct the flow away from the moss? Move it to the front of the tank, try to achieve still surface instead of a flow?

Thank you

Will post a picture in the evening, I added some java fern and moved the moss clumps to the back