Help with German Blue Rams & share your experience!

[Lennie]

Hey guys,

Hope your are doing well!

As I have set up my new tank like around 2 months ago by now, I have moved some of my fish from my 29g to the new tank. 

So today, I've decided to get myself a new friend. As the title says, it is a black ram!

I've made my research and watched Dean's video and so on. But I wanna hear about the personal experiences of you!

My LFS said they have been keeping them on around 24C at the store!! I know they like it much higher. So I've acclimated him around 26 C and increased it to 27C by now. Planning to keep it 28C in the following days, to make sure it is not a sudden increase for the fish both for the ram and other members/plants of the tank. Everything else I keep in the tank can easily like 28C, and My tank reaches 32-33Cs during summer without any harm.

I would love to hear some experiences about rams, and tips and personal experiences of any sort you'd like to share as they are somehow being called "sensitive". 

Other members of the tank are honey gourami, L199, sterbai corys, rabbit snails, rummy noses and a borneo sucker.

I wanna move the borneo to my other tank, but catching it is mission impossible. I gave up after 3 times, as it cause stress on other fish which is not worth it. He seems happy so I let it go. He was happy even when it reached 33Cs. so yeah

Questions:

• Is 28C (82.4F) good enough for the ram? Seems like it is the common point for everything in the tank that can enjoy. It will go higher than that during summer naturally anyway.
• The tank is quite planted. There is a pleco cave, and cave like place made of stone and driftwood.  Would getting another ram be suitable in a 29g tank with other tankmates, or would they be bully vs others/between each other? Is it okay to keep one M and one F juviniles and expect them to pair up, or they need to be in big groups and expected to pair themselves?
• I assume mine is a male, what is the best way to differ a male from female? Internet pics seemed a bit confusing.
• What happens if a black ram male and golden ram female mates, for example? Do they go back to original GBR color mostly or babies are mixture of the two?

 

Please share your experiences! 🙂

Here is a pic from online:

Would be nice to see you guys' opinions and experiences if you want to share! @Guppysnail @Fish Folk @dasaltemelosguy @DiscusLover

Edited March 9, 2023 by Lennie

[Guppysnail]

Mine breed like crazy at 80F. 
they are sensitive to ammonia, nitrite and nitrate like no other species I’ve dealt with. Water must be kept pristine for long term health. I rate them a fussy fish because of this. 
Mine never used caves but love to lay eggs on any flat surface. My UV light being premium real estate. 
My German blue rams are very easy to tell boy from girl. The girls are more vibrantly colored and have big pink bellies when boys are around. Alone they are still pink but not hot pink. 2 girls

I have no clue about the mating genetics. 
 

I can tell you mine are crazy fun and personable. Eat from fingers and have no fear of me, the siphon, steals food right from in front of my BN plecos mouth. Very worth it if you are dedicated to keeping water pristine and below 20 nitrate. 
If you randomly miss a week or two and water changes are not a top priority I would not recommend these. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Guppysnail

[DiscusLover]

On 3/9/2023 at 9:37 AM, Lennie said:

Hey guys,

Hope your are doing well!

As I have set up my new tank like around 2 months ago by now, I have moved some of my fish from my 29g to the new tank. 

So today, I've decided to get myself a new friend. As the title says, it is a black ram!

I've made my research and watched Dean's video and so on. But I wanna hear about the personal experiences of you!

My LFS said they have been keeping them on around 24C at the store!! I know they like it much higher. So I've acclimated him around 26 C and increased it to 27C by now. Planning to keep it 28C in the following days, to make sure it is not a sudden increase for the fish both for the ram and other members/plants of the tank. Everything else I keep in the tank can easily like 28C, and My tank reaches 32-33Cs during summer without any harm.

I would love to hear some experiences about rams, and tips and personal experiences of any sort you'd like to share as they are somehow being called "sensitive". 

Other members of the tank are honey gourami, L199, sterbai corys, rabbit snails, rummy noses and a borneo sucker.

I wanna move the borneo to my other tank, but catching it is mission impossible. I gave up after 3 times, as it cause stress on other fish which is not worth it. He seems happy so I let it go. He was happy even when it reached 33Cs. so yeah

Questions:

• Is 28C (82.4F) good enough for the ram? Seems like it is the common point for everything in the tank that can enjoy. It will go higher than that during summer naturally anyway.
• The tank is quite planted. There is a pleco cave, and cave like place made of stone and driftwood.  Would getting another ram be suitable in a 29g tank with other tankmates, or would they be bully vs others/between each other? Is it okay to keep one M and one F juviniles and expect them to pair up, or they need to be in big groups and expected to pair themselves?
• I assume mine is a male, what is the best way to differ a male from female? Internet pics seemed a bit confusing.
• What happens if a black ram male and golden ram female mates, for example? Do they go back to original GBR color mostly or babies are mixture of the two?

 

Please share your experiences! 🙂

Here is a pic from online:

Would be nice to see you guys' opinions and experiences if you want to share! @Guppysnail @Fish Folk @dasaltemelosguy @DiscusLover

Rams can have very different tolerance, its different if your getting one imported or ones that have bred in the US. One, rams are not that sensitive at all, if you keep your water parameters steady and clean your fine. Temperature wise don't be too worried about it, 80-84 I have kept even up to 86 they all do great, however they burn out quickly if higher then 84 so leave it in the 80-82 range. I would be a little worried if it goes above 86 or below 80. Depending on what ram strains you get, you should be fine with 1 m and 1 f. But for my more aggressive strains my midnights I keep another dither doesn't matter what gender as a trio helps to spread aggression. Based on how a lot have been bred its nearly almost to sex them nowadays, but a common feature you can look for is, one their size obviously males or larger then female and secondly, the pink belly that some females have, it depends on what strain but for electric and midnights nearly impossible to find a pink belly. If you breed a gold and midnight, you will prob get golds/midnights, or gold/blueblack/midnight some midnight strains have 3 or 2 choices, my pair is 3 luckily. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by DiscusLover

[Fish Folk]

On 3/9/2023 at 12:37 PM, Lennie said:

• Is 28C (82.4F) good enough for the ram? Seems like it is the common point for everything in the tank that can enjoy. It will go higher than that during summer naturally anyway.
• The tank is quite planted. There is a pleco cave, and cave like place made of stone and driftwood.  Would getting another ram be suitable in a 29g tank with other tankmates, or would they be bully vs others/between each other? Is it okay to keep one M and one F juviniles and expect them to pair up, or they need to be in big groups and expected to pair themselves?
• I assume mine is a male, what is the best way to differ a male from female? Internet pics seemed a bit confusing.
• What happens if a black ram male and golden ram female mates, for example? Do they go back to original GBR color mostly or babies are mixture of the two?

 

82.4-F is great. If you go warmer, they'll age faster as their metabolism speeds up.

Once mature, Rams will pair off. They are not monogamous beyond a single spawn.

Black Rams / Dark Knight Rams can be tricky to sex. You'll need experience. Post your photos, and we can weigh in.

Colors with Black Rams are not fixed. Many times, fry come out golden. Crossing a Gold Ram with a Black Ram will yield some interesting colors. We've tried experimenting with this some. It is all a bit tricky, but if you really need a genetics deep dive, I can try to start you down that road.

[Lennie]

On 3/9/2023 at 9:07 PM, Guppysnail said:

Mine breed like crazy at 80F. 
they are sensitive to ammonia, nitrite and nitrate like no other species I’ve dealt with. Water must be kept pristine for long term health. I rate them a fussy fish because of this. 
Mine never used caves but love to lay eggs on any flat surface. My UV light being premium real estate. 
My German blue rams are very easy to tell boy from girl. The girls are more vibrantly colored and have big pink bellies when boys are around. Alone they are still pink but not hot pink. 2 girls

I have no clue about the mating genetics. 
 

I can tell you mine are crazy fun and personable. Eat from fingers and have no fear of me, the siphon, steals food right from in front of my BN plecos mouth. Very worth it if you are dedicated to keeping water pristine and below 20 nitrate. 
If you randomly miss a week or two and water changes are not a top priority I would not recommend these. 

 

Those fish look great 🙂 The bellies are almost as pink as Kribs wow!

I make water changes weekly around %25 with gravel vac every week even tho my nitrates don't go high. Water changes are not a chore to me. Definitely can keep up with my schedule on a weekly basis, that's what I always been doing really.

 

On 3/9/2023 at 9:15 PM, DiscusLover said:

Rams can have very different tolerance, its different if your getting one imported or ones that have bred in the US. One, rams are not that sensitive at all, if you keep your water parameters steady and clean your fine. Temperature wise don't be too worried about it, 80-84 I have kept even up to 86 they all do great, however they burn out quickly if higher then 84 so leave it in the 80-82 range. I would be a little worried if it goes above 86 or below 80. Depending on what ram strains you get, you should be fine with 1 m and 1 f. But for my more aggressive strains my midnights I keep another dither doesn't matter what gender as a trio helps to spread aggression. Based on how a lot have been bred its nearly almost to sex them nowadays, but a common feature you can look for is, one their size obviously males or larger then female and secondly, the pink belly that some females have, it depends on what strain but for electric and midnights nearly impossible to find a pink belly. If you breed a gold and midnight, you will prob get golds/midnights, or gold/blueblack/midnight some midnight strains have 3 or 2 choices, my pair is 3 luckily. 

Many thanks! I'm not from US, not sure if they are imported or not but seems likely. If its hard to sex them already, probably even harder for juvinilies :')

 

On 3/9/2023 at 9:32 PM, Fish Folk said:

82.4-F is great. If you go warmer, they'll age faster as their metabolism speeds up.

Once mature, Rams will pair off. They are not monogamous beyond a single spawn.

Black Rams / Dark Knight Rams can be tricky to sex. You'll need experience. Post your photos, and we can weigh in.

Colors with Black Rams are not fixed. Many times, fry come out golden. Crossing a Gold Ram with a Black Ram will yield some interesting colors. We've tried experimenting with this some. It is all a bit tricky, but if you really need a genetics deep dive, I can try to start you down that road.

I will keep it either at 27 or 28C then! 

Do they potentially bully others if they manage to spawn in a community tank, or just protective of the fry in their own corner? My fish are everywhere in the tank! There are many sight blocks that may perform as a block for potential territory I guess.

Here is the picture of the tank to give an idea. Would 1 m 1 f do well in here in a community tank? Or just one is a safer bet?

A lil bit dirty, pic taken right before weekly maintenance :))

[Fish Folk]

On 3/9/2023 at 1:41 PM, Lennie said:

 

Those fish look great 🙂 The bellies are almost as pink as Kribs wow!

I make water changes weekly around %25 with gravel vac every week even tho my nitrates don't go high. Water changes are not a chore to me. Definitely can keep up with my schedule on a weekly basis, that's what I always been doing really.

 

Many thanks! I'm not from US, not sure if they are imported or not but seems likely. If its hard to sex them already, probably even harder for juvinilies :')

 

I will keep it either at 27 or 28C then! 

Do they potentially bully others if they manage to spawn in a community tank, or just protective of the fry in their own corner? My fish are everywhere in the tank! There are many sight blocks that may perform as a block for potential territory I guess.

Here is the picture of the tank to give an idea. Would 1 m 1 f do well in here in a community tank? Or just one is a safer bet?

A lil bit dirty, pic taken right before weekly maintenance :))

Nice tank!

Everything depends on your goals. Rams that grow up together can colonize. We’ve kept 60+ in a 55 gal. together…
 

Here was a batch of Gold-blue fry in a 20 gal. growout…

But sometimes they get aggressive and territorial towards con-specific species. If a female refuses to accept the advances of a male, occasionally he’ll show aggression.

You can check out this journal when you’re interested…

 

[Lennie]

On 3/9/2023 at 10:25 PM, Fish Folk said:

Nice tank!

Everything depends on your goals. Rams that grow up together can colonize. We’ve kept 60+ in a 55 gal. together…
 

Here was a batch of Gold-blue fry in a 20 gal. growout…

But sometimes they get aggressive and territorial towards con-specific species. If a female refuses to accept the advances of a male, occasionally he’ll show aggression.

You can check out this journal when you’re interested…

 

Beautiful fish. I loveed those golds!! Big fan of orange/yellow tones of fish personally. 

Gold rams are my fav normally. I just had a bonding moment with this guy, otherwise, I would def get a golden ram if I went by the look based on my taste

Definitely reading that journal, thanks for sharing!

So these are just color differences right. A male and female ram breeds no matter what color they are?

[Fish Folk]

On 3/9/2023 at 2:29 PM, Lennie said:

So these are just color differences right. A male and female ram breeds no matter what color they are?

Correct. They are all Mikrogeophagus ramirezi

 

[Lennie]

Update:

I got me 3 for a 100x40x40 tank. 1m:2f. They ended up pairing and killing the 3rd even in that tank size. So I would personally avoid keeping any other with a pair formed in a tank. They didnt like my black angel much too, but didnt care about any other fish really. Even when they directly swim inside their territory. But I gotta mention theyve never spawn in my community tank because the water was hard with a ph of 8.0 there. They started spawning after I moved them to a soft water 6.0 ph breeding tank.

They are like puppies. Very cute and lots of character. 

The worst parents ever. Even an eggscatter that does not care about its own eggs or fry is a better parent. I feel like these guys lay eggs and , if they happen to reach that far uneaten, have their eggs hatched/fry free swimming to snack on them. Seriously. Worst. Parents. Ever. 

[anewbie]

ph is less important than actual water parameters (gh/kh/tds); naturally there is a relationship between those parameters and ph but the ph itself is not what is impact the fish ability to spawn or lay eggs. My personal experience is eggs can hatch around 130 tds but success is much more likely at lower tds (below 80); kh has an impact on ph but i've not had much problem with kh as high as 4 - never tried with higher kh as that is my tap plus some fertilizer. Many domestic rams have problems taking care of the eggs - wild less problematic also like most cichild even those that are good parents might take 4 or 5 trys to get right. One thing that throw a lot of people off is most cichild will move the wrigglers from the location where the egg hatch. If you choose to steal the eggs or frys be aware that frys are extremely sensitive to ammonia and other impurties and food decaying for a few hours will kill them - so use a turkey blaster or something similar to remove all uneaten food; don't let it decay around the frys. Most frys will require live food initially as they require the food movement to trigger chase/eat behavior - sort of like a cat and a mouse - if only that darn mouse would sit still.

[Lennie]

On 8/28/2023 at 2:50 PM, anewbie said:

ph is less important than actual water parameters (gh/kh/tds); naturally there is a relationship between those parameters and ph but the ph itself is not what is impact the fish ability to spawn or lay eggs. My personal experience is eggs can hatch around 130 tds but success is much more likely at lower tds (below 80); kh has an impact on ph but i've not had much problem with kh as high as 4 - never tried with higher kh as that is my tap plus some fertilizer. Many domestic rams have problems taking care of the eggs - wild less problematic also like most cichild even those that are good parents might take 4 or 5 trys to get right. One thing that throw a lot of people off is most cichild will move the wrigglers from the location where the egg hatch. If you choose to steal the eggs or frys be aware that frys are extremely sensitive to ammonia and other impurties and food decaying for a few hours will kill them - so use a turkey blaster or something similar to remove all uneaten food; don't let it decay around the frys. Most frys will require live food initially as they require the food movement to trigger chase/eat behavior - sort of like a cat and a mouse - if only that darn mouse would sit still.

Thanks for the all good info. Ive given them a chance with around 8 batches till this day. Nope, they cant take care of them and eat them even if they reach free swimming phase. They once ate them after 2-3 days of them starting free swimming phase. So no more chances left to be given for me

 

Mine lay either on a driftwood which is not a flat surface to my surprise. Or they lay on the flat rock which is the expected one.

I removed the wigglers to a floating plastic container type of setup for the first time today, lets see how it will go. I made a similar setup that @Fish Folk recommended before. A floating plastic tub with a foam around. BEfore, once I tried a net breeder box with 2 nets covers outside. They made it drop to water by pulling it and ate fry that way. :') now I wanna try Fish folk's method and see how it goes. 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Lennie