GH KH Remineralize RO / DI questions

[Tommy Vercetti]

Hello fellow fish nerms! I have a few questions about RO / DI water.

 

Why?: I have not had success with German Blue Rams. I had a pair and the male died in 2 weeks and the female died in 4 weeks. Their color was good and they were active and eating until they would just stop eating and then about 3 days later they would die.

Tank Setup:

16 Gallon Cube with Co2 reactor (home made out of abs pipe fittings) and canister filter (Fluval 107)

Lily pipes with surface skimmer

Dosing EI method fertilizers on a dosing pump

50% WC every Sunday

 

Logic?: My parameters are good except for water hardness (too hard):

Temperature 80F

CO2 30ppm

Ammonia 0ppm

Nitrite 0ppm

Nitrate  30ppm

PH 7.2

Phosphates 2ppm

GH 21d/375ppm

KH 9d/161ppm

 

Questions: I have decided to invest in an RO/DI system and I had originally planned on using a 50/50 mix of Tap and RO/DI but the maths show that would leave me with GH 10.5 and KH 4.5 and also leave me with less control of hardness than if I remineralize the RO/DI water myself. Which leave me with the following questions:

1. What is the best way remineralize the water?

2. What is the most cost effective way?

3. What is the easiest way?

4. Should I buy a container to store the RO/DI water and remineralize the water in this container, then pump it to my aquarium for water change?

5. Reserved for the things that I don't yet know that I don't know 😉

 

Thank you for sharing your help and knowledge on this subject

Edited February 27, 2023 by Tommy Vercetti

[knee]

I've used one of those big trash cans with wheels and that's where I mixed my water. I mix it a few days earlier or a few hours before water change, depending on how lazy I'm feeling. I put a pump and heater inside to circulate the water and keep temp the same, then I connect a hose to the pump to refill my aquarium.

Not sure what's the most cost effective way because I just used seachem products. 

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

On 2/27/2023 at 11:21 AM, knee said:

I've used one of those big trash cans with wheels and that's where I mixed my water. I mix it a few days earlier or a few hours before water change, depending on how lazy I'm feeling. I put a pump and heater inside to circulate the water and keep temp the same, then I connect a hose to the pump to refill my aquarium.

Not sure what's the most cost effective way because I just used seachem products. 

 

Thanks for sharing your setup. Do you use Seachem alkaline buffer and Equilibrium?

[knee]

Before I did. Now I just do 50/50 RO/tap because I don't wanna have extra plugs for the pump and heater because I'm lazy and this eliminates a lot of steps for me lol.

I would collect my RODI water before I change the water and I add hot tap water to match tank temp.

[Tommy Vercetti]

On 2/27/2023 at 11:41 AM, knee said:

Before I did. Now I just do 50/50 RO/tap because I don't wanna have extra plugs for the pump and heater because I'm lazy and this eliminates a lot of steps for me lol.

I would collect my RODI water before I change the water and I add hot tap water to match tank temp.

I am going to count that as 1 vote for 50/50 RO / tap. Thanks for the information. At 50/50 I would be slightly out of my ideal ranges for GH and KH. I wonder if that would be "close enough" for my needs.

[knee]

On 2/27/2023 at 11:56 AM, Tommy Vercetti said:

I am going to count that as 1 vote for 50/50 RO / tap. Thanks for the information. At 50/50 I would be slightly out of my ideal ranges for GH and KH. I wonder if that would be "close enough" for my needs.

What do you need it for? Breeding? Wild caught fish?

[Miska]

Thank you for this thread. I am really struggling with mine. I need to up my KH and bring down my GH and I am honestly struggling.

[Tommy Vercetti]

On 2/27/2023 at 12:46 PM, knee said:

What do you need it for? Breeding? Wild caught fish?

I just want to keep German Blue Rams alive in my setup. I might be missing something but it just seems that my water is way too hard for GBR.

Thanks again for all of your help. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Tommy Vercetti

[Tommy Vercetti]

@Mmiller2001 do you use RO/DI water in your tanks? Do you have any advice that you can share to help me with this endeavor?

[Mmiller2001]

I can help here.

Easiest and cheapest way is to get CaSO4, Potassium Carbonate and plain old Epson Salt. You will use the CaSO4 and Epson for GH and potassium carbonate for KH. Then reduce your potassium dose some to account for the potassium carbonate. Then use rotalabutterfly to make the calculations and the mix will never change.

I use Brute grey trash cans to store RO and then fill additional cans for mixing and water changes. I try to use my mixed up cans completely so the mixed water doesn't sit. The RO can is good to last as it's pure H2O.

[Tommy Vercetti]

Thanks @Mmiller2001 that makes perfect sense. I appreciate you taking the time to help. 

[Mmiller2001]

On 2/27/2023 at 6:37 PM, Tommy Vercetti said:

Thanks @Mmiller2001 that makes perfect sense. I appreciate you taking the time to help. 

If your need any help with rotalabutterfly, just message me.

[Andy's Fish Den]

If you are just wanting to keep the GBR in your aquarium, they should be fine in your tap water. My tap water tests harder than what you have, and I have no problem keeping GBR and black rams, as well as wild caught angels and discus. fish are amazingly adaptable. I have an RO/DI unit that I can use to make pure water if I want, but I only use it when I first bring in any new wild fish or am attempting to spawn and raise fry of any species that need the softened water. 

[Tommy Vercetti]

On 2/28/2023 at 3:39 AM, Andy's Fish Den said:

If you are just wanting to keep the GBR in your aquarium, they should be fine in your tap water. My tap water tests harder than what you have, and I have no problem keeping GBR and black rams, as well as wild caught angels and discus. fish are amazingly adaptable. I have an RO/DI unit that I can use to make pure water if I want, but I only use it when I first bring in any new wild fish or am attempting to spawn and raise fry of any species that need the softened water. 

Do you think that it could be my nitrates at 30ppm? I could lower this by adjusting my fertilizers. Or maybe my Rams were sick and I could not tell.

I am feeling frustrated and would like to succeed with Rams. 

I am feeding live baby brine shimp, twice a day. Feeding with xtreme food nano sinking pellets and or bug bites in the evening to supplement the BBS.

[knee]

On 2/28/2023 at 10:21 AM, Tommy Vercetti said:

Do you think that it could be my nitrates at 30ppm? I could lower this by adjusting my fertilizers. Or maybe my Rams were sick and I could not tell.

I am feeling frustrated and would like to succeed with Rams. 

I am feeding live baby brine shimp, twice a day. Feeding with xtreme food nano sinking pellets and or bug bites in the evening to supplement the BBS.

I also experienced some difficulties keeping Balloon GBR and EBR. Petsmart is the only place (in my area) that sells balloon female GBR and I was also able to find female balloon EBR from a LFS. I bought 5 GBR and 2 EBR, and all of them eventually died so I decided to read a bit about them.

I mostly found that they prefer a mature and established tank. I also read that most of the GBR being sold in big box stores are really weak because they're pumped with meds and hormones before being shipped out. That's why Petsmart and Petco rams always look really colorful in their tanks.

I only have one pair right now and the female is also from petsmart but I picked her because she was the least colorful one in the tank and I assumed that she'll be able to handle the change from Petsmart to my tank better. She's been in the tank for two months now and looks really good. She was also doing fine with my tap before I switched them to 50/50 RO/tap and I only did that to see if I can get them to spawn. 

 

 

[Andy's Fish Den]

One thing to think about as well, rams like their water temp up in the 80s, most big box store and some LFS don't keep any tanks in those temps. One thing I would do when I saw a store with rams is touch the back of my hand to the tank, if its not warm enough, I wouldn't buy because they seem to go down hill the longer they are kept at lower temps. The best luck I have found and had with rams is to find a good LFS that gets them from someone who breeds them locally. That way they are accustomed to the local water parameters, and most likely haven't been kept at the lower temps. 

[Tommy Vercetti]

I bought my GBR from a local fish shop. And I asked what temperature they are keeping the tank that the Rams came out of, they said 78. I knew that was low but the fish seemed healthy and even tried to spawn twice. 

[Tommy Vercetti]

On 2/27/2023 at 5:34 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

I can help here.

Easiest and cheapest way is to get CaSO4, Potassium Carbonate and plain old Epson Salt. You will use the CaSO4 and Epson for GH and potassium carbonate for KH. Then reduce your potassium dose some to account for the potassium carbonate. Then use rotalabutterfly to make the calculations and the mix will never change.

I use Brute grey trash cans to store RO and then fill additional cans for mixing and water changes. I try to use my mixed up cans completely so the mixed water doesn't sit. The RO can is good to last as it's pure H2O.

@Mmiller2001What ratio of CaSO4 and Epson for GH should I use in RO/DI water. I am going to try to mix 5 gallon buckets as a proof of concept. Is 50% (CaSO4.2h2o) to 50%(MgSO4) okay? My target will be 5dGH. 

 

Thanks for helping.

[Guppysnail]

@Tommy Vercetti my water is liquid rock. I bred my rams and have raised their fry in my water. I have roughly 50 very healthy juveniles in my hard water. 
German blue rams are very susceptible to Hexamita. It overpopulates in their gut and takes over. stopping eating with no visible illness signs is one of the Hexamita signs. I had one stop eating when I got my second group and 2 days later pass. I figured it was a one off since everyone else was fine. About a week later 2 more stopped eating. 
I treated the tank with metronidazole as well as fed treated food to those that would eat. They all had massive bowel movement’s even though they were having normal poo before. The two that stopped eating began eating again and were fine. 
Just thought I would share as treating them may be a simpler solution. 
Edit to add: apparently they can live with hex but the stress of moving to a new home lowers the immune system allowing the hex to get a stronger foothold from what I read when I was researching for mine. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Guppysnail

[Tommy Vercetti]

I have treated with general cure. 3 weeks with a week of rest in the middle. Then with API Erythromycin, API Fin & Body Cure, along with Melafix and Pima fix for 1 week. I have noticed they are happy for the most part, but do not like my weekly water change of 50%. I am testing tds at 650 with tap water changes. I want to try the RO/DI water change to observe their behavior in that water.

I feel at this point that I can rule out parasites and infections.

[Mmiller2001]

On 3/23/2023 at 9:22 AM, Tommy Vercetti said:

@Mmiller2001What ratio of CaSO4 and Epson for GH should I use in RO/DI water. I am going to try to mix 5 gallon buckets as a proof of concept. Is 50% (CaSO4.2h2o) to 50%(MgSO4) okay? My target will be 5dGH. 

 

Thanks for helping.

I like 3:1.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Mmiller2001

[Tommy Vercetti]

Here is my recipe, does anyone care anyone care to double check my maths?:

CaSO4 (Calcium sulfate/Gypsum)
(4.2 dGH)
5gal water add 2.44 grams (30ppm)

MgSO4 (Epsom Salt)
(2.31dGH)
5gal water add 1.92 grams (10ppm)

K2CO3 (Potassium carbonate)
(1 dKH)
5gal water add 0.466 grams

[Mmiller2001]

On 3/23/2023 at 6:40 PM, Tommy Vercetti said:

Here is my recipe, does anyone care anyone care to double check my maths?:

CaSO4 (Calcium sulfate/Gypsum)
(4.2 dGH)
5gal water add 2.44 grams (30ppm)

MgSO4 (Epsom Salt)
(2.31dGH)
5gal water add 1.92 grams (10ppm)

K2CO3 (Potassium carbonate)
(1 dKH)
5gal water add 0.466 grams

Looks right. I will add to take into account the potassium from K2CO3 and add that to the total K dose. So if you dose K from another source, the K2CO3 needs to be included.

[Tommy Vercetti]

Should I be concerned? After mixing the above recipe the Ph of the 5 gallons of water is higher than 8.8 (max reading of api test kit).

[Mmiller2001]

No, that's normal. There's no acids to bring it down. It will immediately be as expected when added to the tank.