Discus Question

[EVoyager31]

So I read ACOP’s article on Discus care and it mentioned that you should remove the aggressive fish over time. I’ve read this elsewhere also..
I had tiger barbs for awhile, and this tactic wouldn’t wrk because another would simply take it’s place as the dominant aggressor. Why would this not also happen with discus? Is this just a species thing? 
I am planning on purchasing 5 small (2-2.5”) discus here soon and am wondering what will happen if there is an aggressor because I have also read that they should all be approximately the same size, and introduced in groups.

 

Thoughts?

[Boulder_Betta]

Although I've never kept discus, I know a trick that might work to help if they end up having the same dominance issues as your tiger barbs, but this method might take a lot of trial and error, as well as being a temporary eyesore considering the discus' size compared to the size of the 'leader'- just hear me out. Whenever I'm in that sort of situation of there being a backup aggressor that takes power when the "top" fish is taken out of the tank, what I've found to work is that I add a fish that is infamously flashy/bossy (but not aggressive after the first few hours of when the hierarchy is first being established), e.g. a betta, male gourami (females might work), etc, so that the other fish will stay together with equal "status", in fear of the common enemy. If all goes well, you may be able to remove the intended aggressor after a few days/weeks and let the discus swim peacefully without issues, but the risk of fin nipping and stress is extremely high, so I'd recommend some small tetras/rasboras as dither fish, if you have room in the tank. I've had several successes with this method in the past between my cardinal tetras and female bettas (it also helps the tetras school tighter), but idk if it's safe for young discus, so if you choose to go down this route, I'd recommend using a plant-free tank until the fish have found peace, so you can add any medications straight to the tank without quarantining everybody- except for any strained fins from the intended aggressor. Hope this helps!

[Fish Folk]

I like the way you think!

Discus will sometimes succumb to aggression when there are not enough of them to disperse it. I like a group of 6 or more. They’re natural shoaling fish, if their tank is large enough.

They are cichlids, and may establish a “pecking order.” I recently readded 4x Discus to a community tank. The resident dominant male went AFTER the largest male added, and kept him stressed for 48 hrs. But eventually, things sorted out. Here’s their tank…

I just have 2x sponge filters, keep at about 83°-F, and water change 30-50% once a week. 55 gal. Going for a couple years.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Fish Folk

[EVoyager31]

On 11/8/2022 at 9:01 PM, Fish Folk said:

I like the way you think!

Discus will sometimes succumb to aggression when there are not enough of them to disperse it. I like a group of 6 or more. They’re natural shoaling fish, if their tank is large enough.

They are cichlids, and may establish a “pecking order.” I recently readded 4x Discus to a community tank. The resident dominant male went AFTER the largest male added, and kept him stressed for 48 hrs. But eventually, things sorted out. Here’s their tank…

I just have 2x sponfe filters, kepp at about 83°-F, and water change 30-50% once a week. 55 gal. Going for a couple years.

Gorgeous! I hope mine will be just as beautiful! Kind of regretting not going for larger ones from the git go! I’ve ordered the 5 small ones in a “mystery” pack for my 75 gallon. Thanks for the advice!

On 11/8/2022 at 8:48 PM, Boulder_Betta said:

Although I've never kept discus, I know a trick that might work to help if they end up having the same dominance issues as your tiger barbs, but this method might take a lot of trial and error, as well as being a temporary eyesore considering the discus' size compared to the size of the 'leader'- just hear me out. Whenever I'm in that sort of situation of there being a backup aggressor that takes power when the "top" fish is taken out of the tank, what I've found to work is that I add a fish that is infamously flashy/bossy (but not aggressive after the first few hours of when the hierarchy is first being established), e.g. a betta, male gourami (females might work), etc, so that the other fish will stay together with equal "status", in fear of the common enemy. If all goes well, you may be able to remove the intended aggressor after a few days/weeks and let the discus swim peacefully without issues, but the risk of fin nipping and stress is extremely high, so I'd recommend some small tetras/rasboras as dither fish, if you have room in the tank. I've had several successes with this method in the past between my cardinal tetras and female bettas (it also helps the tetras school tighter), but idk if it's safe for young discus, so if you choose to go down this route, I'd recommend using a plant-free tank until the fish have found peace, so you can add any medications straight to the tank without quarantining everybody- except for any strained fins from the intended aggressor. Hope this helps!

I tried adding a “tank boss” to my tiger tank, an opaline gourami. They did school a bit tighter but I was still finding nipped fins that I attribute to the barb aggressor.

The tank I have is already well established, fully planted (recently did a massive chop, but still fairly dense) and I won’t likely take the plants out. I do plan to add some dithers, once I have a handle on the discus alone. Thanks for the tips!

[Fish Folk]

On 11/8/2022 at 9:05 PM, EVoyager31 said:

Kind of regretting not going for larger ones from the git go! I’ve ordered the 5 small ones in a “mystery” pack for my 75 gallon.

We got all of these young. You’re doing this right! Enjoy the journey…

[EVoyager31]

On 11/8/2022 at 9:15 PM, Fish Folk said:

We got all of these young. You’re doing this right! Enjoy the journey…

What kind of filtration are you running? I have a pen plaxx 1000 on my 75… considering adding another canister just to help maintain bio bacteria and help filter out junk. Any and all tips you have would be appreciated!

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Water changes, oxygenation, the right temperature and enough room are the key with any of these fish - discus, angels and German Blue Rams. I would aim for nitrates less than 20. 
Starting with smaller juvenile cichlids definitely helps. You’ll have some time to enjoy them before the fireworks 💥 of adolescence start. I’d embrace it because also with the aggressive behavior comes their breeding coloration which is magnificent.  

[EVoyager31]

On 11/9/2022 at 3:02 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

Water changes, oxygenation, the right temperature and enough room are the key with any of these fish - discus, angels and German Blue Rams. I would aim for nitrates less than 20. 
Starting with smaller juvenile cichlids definitely helps. You’ll have some time to enjoy them before the fireworks 💥 of adolescence start. I’d embrace it because also with the aggressive behavior comes their breeding coloration which is magnificent.  

Nitrates leas than 20.. what if I am using easy green? I have C02 injection and usually fertilize as well.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Check out George Farmer’s series on his Discus tank. He advised in the end against doing a hitech planted with Discus because the best conditions for plants are not favorable for the fish. Ie. High heat and high oxygenation along with low nitrates are needed for the fish while a planted tank would be a tad cooler, more co2 then o2, and the nitrates would be higher. I’ve seen it done of course but when you think about it there’s a lot of logic to George’s thoughts. These are expensive high needs fish that we want the best color and to get them to thrive. You’d have to do double time to make all parties fish, plants and tank happy. It may be worth it just to try. Good luck and have fun!

[EVoyager31]

On 11/9/2022 at 11:50 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

Check out George Farmer’s series on his Discus tank. He advised in the end against doing a hitech planted with Discus because the best conditions for plants are not favorable for the fish. Ie. High heat and high oxygenation along with low nitrates are needed for the fish while a planted tank would be a tad cooler, more co2 then o2, and the nitrates would be higher. I’ve seen it done of course but when you think about it there’s a lot of logic to George’s thoughts. These are expensive high needs fish that we want the best color and to get them to thrive. You’d have to do double time to make all parties fish, plants and tank happy. It may be worth it just to try. Good luck and have fun!

Fair point, I’ve been trying to block out that conclusion 😅. I can always turn the c02 off (and have for the impending arrival of the new fish). I’ll check out his series too, thanks!

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I’d always kind of thought this way but then I saw George’s series and it crystallized for me. He had Stencker discus and that may have been part of the issue - they’re raised in high pH and he was keeping them much more acidic then they are raised for. 

[DiscusLover]

On 11/8/2022 at 3:44 PM, EVoyager31 said:

So I read ACOP’s article on Discus care and it mentioned that you should remove the aggressive fish over time. I’ve read this elsewhere also..
I had tiger barbs for awhile, and this tactic wouldn’t wrk because another would simply take it’s place as the dominant aggressor. Why would this not also happen with discus? Is this just a species thing? 
I am planning on purchasing 5 small (2-2.5”) discus here soon and am wondering what will happen if there is an aggressor because I have also read that they should all be approximately the same size, and introduced in groups.

 

Thoughts?

Discus are going to have a pecking order like most cichlids, I would not worry too much. Like most cichlids having a group will disperse the aggression from the main aggresive but I would only start worrying if one of them starts to get too stressed.

[EVoyager31]

On 11/10/2022 at 12:01 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

I’d always kind of thought this way but then I saw George’s series and it crystallized for me. He had Stencker discus and that may have been part of the issue - they’re raised in high pH and he was keeping them much more acidic then they are raised for. 

Yeah, I see he has a lot of aquascaping videos too. I’d hate to lose any of my plants but honestly I’ve never been able to get my aquascapes to that next level that looks so nice (like Fish Folk’s above). Right now I think I have too much variety. Lots of stems of several varieties along with what I call “standard” plants like javas, anubias, etc. Maybe if I follow his tips.. simplify my plants.. I’ll get there..