Slowly Losing Ricefish

[G Harnish]

Interested in any and all help-I have not been able to crack this on my own. Quite puzzled. 

Bottom line: I am slowly losing fish every week or so. Started in late Sep. Seems to begin with slight bloated appearance, worsens, swimming affected, sometimes extreme large belly and curved spine, and then death.  First one or two I was not concerned, but now a sustained pattern. 

Background, water, meds, and diet below.

Photos attached are Ricefish taken today showing bloat/early bloat (photo sof single fish) and normal Ricefish (shown w platy tankmates-no issues with Platys). 

I bred and raised several dozen blue sparkle Ricefish this summer in my outside tub. Fun! Around  early Aug moved about a dozen to indoor grow out tank along with wagtail Platys I am growing out. Goal was to finish grow out, make sure they were in great shape, then sell to LFS (my first sales). There have been no disease or death issues with Platys. 
 

Water and Tank: 77 degrees, pH 7.2, KH 40-60, GH  100/120, zero ammonia and nitrites, nitrates 20-40, weekly water changes, tank is not planted, run 1 TBS aquarium salt/10G, sponge filtration 

Diet: mix of live BBS, frozen BBS (homemade), Xtreme micro pellets (open 4 months but refrigerated), Xtreme krill flakes (same storage), Repashy S Green. Other tanks feed same foods w no issue, including the sibling Ricefish remaining in outdoor mini tub (no disease or losses apparent).

Meds: Two rounds coop trio when brought Platys and Ricefish together in this tank-starting early Aug. Then two rounds Xpel (later in Aug into Sep)  First deaths began roughly late Sep. 

Have just gone through a 5 day course of Paracleanse. And took the attached photos today with a couple more fish showing beginning visual symptoms that have led to previous deaths.  

[G Harnish]

Sorry photos may not have came through on original post. Single fish with bloat/early bloat. Photos w Ricefish and Platys show normal Ricefish.

[Colu]

As you kept them in a pond and with the bloating and other symptoms I would treat for internal parasites with paracleanse repeat the treatment every two weeks for a Total of three full course of treatment if you don't have live plants I would also add some aquarium salt 1 table for 3 gallons as well @G Harnish

Edited November 8, 2022 by Colu

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/8/2022 at 8:52 AM, G Harnish said:

Water and Tank: 77 degrees, pH 7.2, KH 40-60, GH  100/120, zero ammonia and nitrites, nitrates 20-40, weekly water changes, tank is not planted, run 1 TBS aquarium salt/10G, sponge filtration 

Maybe it's nothing, but isn't that temp slightly high for rice fish?

I would hold back food to rule out diet, and the go ahead with the above directions.  When treating for internal I think you do want to feed to help clean out the system, but I would confirm those directions.  Maybe @Colu can clarify for us!

I would typically hold food for ~3 days, then feed small amounts as long as bloating doesn't increase.

On 11/8/2022 at 8:52 AM, G Harnish said:

Diet: mix of live BBS, frozen BBS (homemade), Xtreme micro pellets (open 4 months but refrigerated), Xtreme krill flakes (same storage), Repashy S Green. Other tanks feed same foods w no issue, including the sibling Ricefish remaining in outdoor mini tub (no disease or losses apparent).

At this current point in time, my suggestion would be to stick to brine shrimp and repashy Soilent green until you have a clear reason as to what's going on internally.

On 11/8/2022 at 8:52 AM, G Harnish said:

Have just gone through a 5 day course of Paracleanse. And took the attached photos today with a couple more fish showing beginning visual symptoms that have led to previous deaths.  

I would continue treatment as mentioned above for 2-3 more weeks. Have you seen any parasites, weird poop, or other things that would lead to internal parasite issues where you might need to additionally treat for other kinds of worms?

[Colu]

On 11/9/2022 at 8:06 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

On 11/8/2022 at 4:52 PM, G Harnish said:

Water and Tank: 77 degrees, pH 7.2, KH 40-60, GH  100/120, zero ammonia and nitrites, nitrates 20-40, weekly water changes, tank is not planted, run 1 TBS aquarium salt/10G, sponge filtration 

Maybe it's nothing, but isn't that temp slightly high for rice fish?

I would hold back food to rule out diet, and the go ahead with the above directions.  When treating for internal I think you do want to feed to help clean out the system, but I would confirm those directions.  Maybe @Colu can clarify for us!

I would typically hold food for ~3 days, then feed small amounts as long as bloating doesn't

Typically it's recommend not to feed for a couple of days when treating for internal parasites it allows the fish to pass the parasites more easily 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Colu
Missing word

[TOtrees]

In the 2nd and 3rd pics, the fish in the middle looks a little "chesty". Here's a couple grabs from the interwebs of what I mean:

The rear part of the abdomen isn't as swollen or engorged as the front part, right behind the head/jaw. 

I have a terrible track record of healing sick fish (meds just don't work for me), but a pretty record for keeping them healthy in the first place (if I may say so myself). I know these pics are guppies, and rice fish are different. But my reading on this appearance is that it results from frequent overfeeding or gorging. When I see it (I've had it in my fish, here and there), it's almost always the males, and once it becomes persistent/serious I've never been able to bring them back. But it's a slow progression, not a fast killer. 

If I'm right (about this phenomenon/syndrome/condition), it's more of a physiological response to consuming too much food, and not a communicable disease. It's like they eat so much and so often that they stretch their throat and stomach to be able to eat and hold even more food, and this ends up allowing them to stuff too much in for proper digestion to occur.

Following on the above, I would echo what others above have recommended. Go with very fine or powder food, in VERY small quantities. Live and frozen bbs works, but less than usual. This might mean that healthy/unaffected fish in the same tank don't get enough food (or get less than what you'd like), so you might have to consider separating, not as a quarantine method but to be able to feed each fish the way it needs. 

But to be clear, I'm just putting an idea out there for consideration, and others can agree or disagree. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Maybe daphnia could help here?  @Odd Duck mentioned that it helps when bettas get bloated. Daphnia is a food that helps fish pass parasites and/or clear digestive blockages. Due to its husks/shells. But if using a parasite med instead then I would not feed.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/9/2022 at 5:12 AM, Colu said:

Typically it's recommend not to feed for a couple of days when treating for internal parasites it allows the fish to pass the parasites more 

Awesome. Thank you!

[Odd Duck]

Lots of good suggestions here.  I don’t know that I have any further thoughts since it’s been covered well.