Substitutions for quarantine trio

[nerdyaquarist]

Hi everyone! First post here and excited to be part of this community.

After many months of bad luck with buying fish at local shops and month-long quarantines (and I won’t even mention how much money I’ve put down the drain…), I’m done with the waiting game, I’m ready to do the quarantine trio or some variation of it. I avoided it because I didn’t want to overly stress out the fish but I’m so sick of having a 50% or so mortality rate even with my many months established heavily planted aquarium where the regular inhabitants have no issues, it’s only the new guys I buy.

I don’t want to spend even more unnecessary money though, so here’s where the question comes in. Can prazipro work as a direct substitute for paracleanse in the trio? Same thing for API erythromycin for Maracyn and Fritz rid-ich for ich-x. They all have the same active ingredients, just different brands. I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/5/2022 at 8:01 PM, nerdyaquarist said:

Same thing for API erythromycin for Maracyn

yes

 

 

On 6/5/2022 at 8:01 PM, nerdyaquarist said:

I don’t want to spend even more unnecessary money though, so here’s where the question comes in. Can prazipro work as a direct substitute for paracleanse in the trio? Same thing for API erythromycin for Maracyn and Fritz rid-ich for ich-x. They all have the same active ingredients, just different brands. I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

If all the active ingredients are identical and are at the same %, then I would say it's likely they are similar. However, there may be some other stuff in there that's not listed, and all anyone can say is "it hasn't been verified yet.

I used the API stuff for a long time and recently ordered everything from the co-op for meds so I have some on hand.  My others had expired, I need to treat my fish, but it's just something where I wish to have something on hand than a risk of something going poorly and I lose my tank again.

I do have prazipro, but I also ordered the other 2 meds that are used to treat internal parasites.  I plan to run the med trio for a week (going to follow the directions) and then I plan to give the fish a break, and treat with the final med from the ACO for internal parasites.

I hope that covers everything, but the entire point here..... I understand the frustration you're going through. I would ask, what are your water parameters?  When you go to the local shop, please ask them what their parameters are for comparison.  How are you acclimating fish?

[Cory]

Prazi and paracleanse are not the same. Paracleanse also has metronidazole.

[nerdyaquarist]

On 6/6/2022 at 12:19 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

yes

 

 

If all the active ingredients are identical and are at the same %, then I would say it's likely they are similar. However, there may be some other stuff in there that's not listed, and all anyone can say is "it hasn't been verified yet.

I used the API stuff for a long time and recently ordered everything from the co-op for meds so I have some on hand.  My others had expired, I need to treat my fish, but it's just something where I wish to have something on hand than a risk of something going poorly and I lose my tank again.

I do have prazipro, but I also ordered the other 2 meds that are used to treat internal parasites.  I plan to run the med trio for a week (going to follow the directions) and then I plan to give the fish a break, and treat with the final med from the ACO for internal parasites.

I hope that covers everything, but the entire point here..... I understand the frustration you're going through. I would ask, what are your water parameters?  When you go to the local shop, please ask them what their parameters are for comparison.  How are you acclimating fish?

I appreciate your in-depth reply. To see if I understand you correctly, you used the API stuff as part of the trio or separately? 

Also to your other question, it's been incredibly frustrating dealing with this! My parameters on my tank (29 gal) have been a stable 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and 20 nitrate for as long as I can remember, it's never moved. I used to acclimate them by floating them in the bag and then adding a bit of aquarium water using a cup or a turkey baster every 5 minutes up to 30 minutes total. Once all the casualties started happening, my LFS recommended drip acclimating, which I started doing and to no different results. 

One of my LFS's blames me for having a pH that they claim is too high for some of the fish (cardinal tetras have been the fish I've dealt with the most casualties, across many different stores in my area). My pH was 7.0-7.2 at the time and theirs was around 6.5. I started adding more RO water to drop it over time to 6.8 and still the same result. I went to a different LFS that has 7.0 water and same thing, all the cardinals I bought ended up dead. I recently bought mislabeled red honey gouramis that are actually thick-lips at yet another store who doesn't do RO water at all (so their water is most likely around 8 if not higher) and I lost 2 of the 4 over a month. But the weird part is the fish that end up surviving and the ones I currently have are perfectly fine, perfectly healthy, and the diseases that seem to kill the other fish don't get to them. I don't know if it's bad luck, something with my tank, or just the stores in my area carry fish with bad genetics. 

With the cardinals, the deaths would start with 1 a day over a period of about a month and whoever survives (usually 0 or 1) is perfectly fine and joins my main tank with no issues. I have tried buying about 4-5 batches of cardinals from different sources all with the same result.

With the gouramis recently, I got 4 of them and I left them in my QT for only a week after deworming them since the LFS said they've been in the store for a month. 2 of the fish colored up nicely over time, 2 didn't but otherwise acted fine. I just thought maybe they were younger and didn't think much of it since their behavior was normal. Randomly after a month of adding them to my main tank, one of them started showing swim bladder issues yet continued to eat and then from one day to the next started corkscrewing and died within hours. I moved the other pale one (who, in retrospect looked a bit deformed) to a QT and very quickly pineconed and died within days. It's been quite a disheartening last few months trying to stock my tank.

On 6/6/2022 at 2:32 AM, Cory said:

Prazi and paracleanse are not the same. Paracleanse also has metronidazole.

Thanks Cory, so I guess I can't replace paracleanse with prazi. But what about the rest?

Edited June 7, 2022 by nerdyaquarist

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/6/2022 at 5:08 PM, nerdyaquarist said:

I appreciate your in-depth reply. To see if I understand you correctly, you used the API stuff as part of the trio or separately? 

I have used Ich-X, General Cure, and Erithromycin. I will receive the fritz versions tomorrow for treatment.
 

On 6/6/2022 at 5:08 PM, nerdyaquarist said:

Also to your other question, it's been incredibly frustrating dealing with this! My parameters on my tank (29 gal) have been a stable 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and 20 nitrate for as long as I can remember, it's never moved. I used to acclimate them by floating them in the bag and then adding a bit of aquarium water using a cup or a turkey baster every 5 minutes up to 30 minutes total. Once all the casualties started happening, my LFS recommended drip acclimating, which I started doing and to no different results. 

On sensitive species, shrimp, I drip acclimate using a specimen container/cup method you're describing.  You can set up an airline hose and literally "drip" acclimate with a valve as well. those are generally the recommended methods. If the fish are stressed then there is the plop/drop method that can be used as well.

Here's a good video to check out.
 

 

On 6/6/2022 at 5:08 PM, nerdyaquarist said:

I started adding more RO water to drop it over time to 6.8 and still the same result. I went to a different LFS that has 7.0 water and same thing, all the cardinals I bought ended up dead. I recently bought mislabeled red honey gouramis that are actually thick-lips at yet another store who doesn't do RO water at all (so their water is most likely around 8 if not higher) and I lost 2 of the 4. But the weird part is the fish that end up surviving and the ones I currently have are perfectly fine, perfectly healthy, and the diseases that seem to kill the other fish don't get to them. I don't know if it's bad luck, something with my tank, or just the stores in my area carry fish with bad genetics. 

What is your PH, KH, GH out of the tap? what is it after you aerate that same cup of water from the tap after 24 hours?  The main thing is to have it stable, let the fish adapt to your water.

[nerdyaquarist]

On 6/6/2022 at 5:22 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I have used Ich-X, General Cure, and Erithromycin. I will receive the fritz versions tomorrow for treatment.
 

On sensitive species, shrimp, I drip acclimate using a specimen container/cup method you're describing.  You can set up an airline hose and literally "drip" acclimate with a valve as well. those are generally the recommended methods. If the fish are stressed then there is the plop/drop method that can be used as well.

Here's a good video to check out.
 

 

What is your PH, KH, GH out of the tap? what is it after you aerate that same cup of water from the tap after 24 hours?  The main thing is to have it stable, let the fish adapt to your water.

Thanks for the speedy reply. I actually misspoke, I meant the Kordon Rid-Ich. It has worked for me very well in the past. I already drip acclimate with a tube attached to a valve. I've been doing it for the last few batches but the same thing happens. Thing is, the fish don't die immediately so I know it's not the acclimation. They die over a period of a month. The cardinals would die on me 1 per day. The gouramis behaved perfectly normally for about a month until one day they didn't. 

PH out of my tap from my memory was a gnarly 8.2 or so. I mix in 60% RO water and 40% tap and get a consistent pH of 6.8. The gH out of my tap was crazy high, about 11 or so. In my tank it's consistently 5-6. I gotta say I don't know what the parameters are after aerating a cup of water for a day, never heard of this method honestly - but I do know that my parameters have been stable since my tank finished cycling about half a year ago. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/6/2022 at 5:33 PM, nerdyaquarist said:

I gotta say I don't know what the parameters are after aerating a cup of water for a day, never heard of this method honestly - but I do know that my parameters have been stable since my tank finished cycling about half a year ago. 

Definitely worth doing, so you know what the parameters of your water are after off-gassing

[nerdyaquarist]

On 6/6/2022 at 5:37 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Definitely worth doing, so you know what the parameters of your water are after off-gassing

How would this be any different than say, testing my aquarium parameters mid week in between water changes? My parameters are consistent across the week.

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/6/2022 at 5:59 PM, nerdyaquarist said:

How would this be any different than say, testing my aquarium parameters mid week in between water changes? My parameters are consistent across the week.

The key is to know what the parameters of the water going in the tank are, as well as what the parameters of the tank are. Those two things give you an idea of what your WC will accomplish or result in.  If you have water with nitrates in it for instance, some even have water with ammonia.  If you had a lot of rocks, you'll have GH/KH changes as well.  There's a few variables that can change from the tap to the tank, so it's good to know what your water parameters are after it off-gasses.

[Colu]

What is the temperature of your tank 

[nerdyaquarist]

On 6/6/2022 at 6:01 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

The key is to know what the parameters of the water going in the tank are, as well as what the parameters of the tank are. Those two things give you an idea of what your WC will accomplish or result in.  If you have water with nitrates in it for instance, some even have water with ammonia.  If you had a lot of rocks, you'll have GH/KH changes as well.  There's a few variables that can change from the tap to the tank, so it's good to know what your water parameters are after it off-gasses.

That makes sense. I'll get a cup of tap water and leave it out for a day and measure it.

On 6/6/2022 at 6:06 PM, Colu said:

What is the temperature of your tank 

78 F

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/6/2022 at 10:34 PM, nerdyaquarist said:

I'll get a cup of tap water and leave it out for a day and measure it.

Make sure it's aerated or that will alter results.