Panda Garra vs Hillstream Loach

[Zach B]

Hey guys!

I’ve got a 12 gallon long that measures 3ft by 10 inches by 10 inches and was wanting an algae grazer in there to give the bottom of the tank more spunk. I’ve got 6 habrosus cories and a male betta currently as the only stock. It is also heavily planted with various crypts, anubias, dwarf chain sword, hygrophila polysperma, dwarf aquarium lily, Java ferns, and floaters like salvinia and giant duckweed. 
 

I’ve been battling myself on which fish to get, a panda garra or reticulated hill stream loach? For those of you who’ve had experience with the species, which is more active? Any territorial behavior towards other species? Which is the more voracious algae eater? Thank you so much in advance!

[Flumpweesel]

Hard choice get three of each.

I find garras easier to keep alive and will happily eat dried food if you run out of algae (I've heard that can happen). Garras are pretty cute together mine kinda cuddled when resting. 

Hill stream loaches super cute in a weird sci-fi alien way but I never got very long out of the ones I kept with my goldfish but I think they like more flow than goldies so it might have been a low O2 problem back then. (My goldies also liked to tip them which probably didn't help)

I think hillstreams are probably the best at algae eating. I had no territory issues with either. Garras were with corys and they didn't seem to care 

[SpacedCadette]

I haven’t had a hillstream loach but I do currently have a panda garra. While I can’t say he’s the worlds best algae eater, I can easily say that he’s one of the most active fish in my community tank. He’s always out and about. Mooching on the glass and flopping around. He’s like a little torpedo bouncing around the tank. 

He’s definitely the class clown in my tank. Such a goofy doofus. 

[Jaspyjasp]

@Zach B What did you end up getting? Now I'm in that same predicament trying to figure out which algae eater to get 🤣 A Hillstream Loach or Panda Garra .... 🤔

[anewbie]

If you are some place warm and your tank is therefore warm (or you intend to add other fishes that require warmer water) then definitely panda gara; if your tank is mature (lots of biofilm) and your home is cool and you intend to keep the aquarium cool then hillstream loach. Both like lots of current soft to very soft and well oxygenated water.

Edited August 21, 2022 by anewbie

[Jayci]

Have only owned 3 Hillstream loaches in a 20g L. I got them almost 2 years ago now. Very hardy. 

Mine aren't huge algae eaters. Im sure they're eating the softer algae and biofilms, but they don't bother with hair or brown.

Very fun little guys and active. I think you will be fine with either loaches or garra. 

[Cinnebuns]

On 8/21/2022 at 1:50 AM, Jaspyjasp said:

@Zach B What did you end up getting? Now I'm in that same predicament trying to figure out which algae eater to get 🤣 A Hillstream Loach or Panda Garra .... 🤔

I don't know a lot about panda garras but I can share my experience with hillstream loaches. 

I love mine!  I do hear that some are difficult to feed and will not eat commercial food but that is not my experience. Mine commonly will feed on shrimp pellets and cucumber and such that I put in the tank. They are slightly shy and appreciate a hiding place like a cave or something so don't expect to see them a ton but they also aren't so shy that you will forget they are there. Occasionally they will surprise you and be out chasing each other all day!  

I got mine from aquahuna.com and I couldn't be happier!  It's possible this is partially why mine readily accept commercial foods but I cant say for sure. They arrived to me very healthy and have made me extremely happy with my purchase. 

[Jaspyjasp]

On 8/21/2022 at 3:28 PM, Cinnebuns said:

I don't know a lot about panda garras but I can share my experience with hillstream loaches. 

I love mine!  I do hear that some are difficult to feed and will not eat commercial food but that is not my experience. Mine commonly will feed on shrimp pellets and cucumber and such that I put in the tank. They are slightly shy and appreciate a hiding place like a cave or something so don't expect to see them a ton but they also aren't so shy that you will forget they are there. Occasionally they will surprise you and be out chasing each other all day!  

I got mine from aquahuna.com and I couldn't be happier!  It's possible this is partially why mine readily accept commercial foods but I cant say for sure. They arrived to me very healthy and have made me extremely happy with my purchase. 

Oh wow!! That’s awesome!! Thank you so much for your insight and experience! Do hillstreams they eat all sorts of algae? What about HAIR ALGAE? 🤣 that’s my biggest issue.

I have a 22G long (36x12x12 foot print) and have 8 Venezuelan cories, 6 White clouds, and 6 porkchop rasboras (at the moment). I was considering only 1 panda garra or 1 hillstream loach to keep things minimal, but do you think I will need 3? O_o Will 3  be an issue with the corys or can I just do 1 you think?

Thank you so much!!

Jaspyjasp

 

[Cinnebuns]

On 8/21/2022 at 6:55 PM, Jaspyjasp said:

Oh wow!! That’s awesome!! Thank you so much for your insight and experience! Do hillstreams they eat all sorts of algae? What about HAIR ALGAE? 🤣 that’s my biggest issue.

I have a 22G long (36x12x12 foot print) and have 8 Venezuelan cories, 6 White clouds, and 6 porkchop rasboras (at the moment). I was considering only 1 panda garra or 1 hillstream loach to keep things minimal, but do you think I will need 3? O_o Will 3  be an issue with the corys or can I just do 1 you think?

Thank you so much!!

Jaspyjasp

 

Hillstream loaches are better for algae on surfaces rather than hair algae which is kinds fuzzy and stringy. I'm not entirely sure what would be best for hair algae tbh but I tend to think maybe otos or even many live bearers can help with that. 

I think anywhere from 1 to 3 you would be fine. They are no issues with cories. I keep mine along with panda cories. 

To add:  although live bearers will pick at hair algae they don't consume a large amount of it like other species might. 

[OutBout]

Neither are voracious in terms of algae eating. Both do much better with high flow and dissolved oxygen. Not sure how compatible this would be with the betta.

Have you considered amano shrimp?

[SimmonsSnailsNScales]

I have panda garra and they are one of my favorites of the fish I keep. They are super active all the time and are CONSTANTLY munching on flat surface algae. Between them and snails the glass and broadleaf plants look great. Fun fact about them. They will almost always nibble on your arm when you stick it in the tank.

[Cinnebuns]

On 8/21/2022 at 8:07 PM, OutBout said:

Neither are voracious in terms of algae eating. Both do much better with high flow and dissolved oxygen. Not sure how compatible this would be with the betta.

Have you considered amano shrimp?

I 2nd this idea!

[bryanisag]

I would get a hillstream loach. I had one once that would school with my danios for a few laps around the tank and I think with your long tank and a school of Corries that are known to swim like that it's possible to see that again. 

[Jaspyjasp]

@CinnebunsAh, ok! Good to know! I’ve heard differing opinions with hillstreams and hair algae, but great to hear your experience. So glad hillstreams do well with Corys!
@OutBout @Cinnebuns Yes, I have an Amano and I love it! I am going to get a couple more b/c I think they eat hair algae well. I guess I was hoping to find something that could work on the glass and eat hair algae 🤣 I don’t have a Betta though - am considering a Honey Gourami - so I think either a Hillstream or Garra could work. I would put an extra airstone in to get more oxygen going in the tanks. And def more amanos!
@SimmonsSnailsNScalesAhh thank you! I hear Panda Garras are so fun to have! I should prob get snails, but I don’t want an explosion of snails or eggs 🙈
@bryanisagCool! I could see that! It would be fun to see the hillstream gliding around like that! I have a number of small schooling fish so it’d be cool to see the hillstream socializing in that way.

 Thank you everyone! Super appreciate the advice all around! Both the Hillstream and Garra sound so fun, it’s hard to choose.  Part of me is wanting both a Garra and hillstream now - with a couple more Amanos 🤣 Just conscious of overstocking the tank…we’ll see…

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Jaspyjasp

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/21/2022 at 7:09 PM, Cinnebuns said:

On 8/21/2022 at 6:07 PM, OutBout said:

Neither are voracious in terms of algae eating. Both do much better with high flow and dissolved oxygen. Not sure how compatible this would be with the betta.

Have you considered amano shrimp?

I 2nd this idea!

Agreed.  Temps alone I know the hillstream loaches won't do well.

Mine, similar to what Cinnebuns mentions will hang out on large flat surfaces and not necessarily where you'd see them a ton.  they camo very well and are usually active at night.  Mine spent a lot of time on the back glass and near the HoB filtration, airstones, and on pleco caves. 

If you have a low temp tank, 70-74 range, then something like loaches make more sense.  Panda garra, based on body shape, I would imagine are similar to those care requirements.   The betta is going to determine the tank temp as it's the focal.  If you want to have something that handles a wider range I think your best bet is a small pleco, shrimp (they usually like it cooler up to a point), or snails.

[Jaspyjasp]

On 8/21/2022 at 8:52 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Agreed.  Temps alone I know the hillstream loaches won't do well.

Mine, similar to what Cinnebuns mentions will hang out on large flat surfaces and not necessarily where you'd see them a ton.  they camo very well and are usually active at night.  Mine spent a lot of time on the back glass and near the HoB filtration, airstones, and on pleco caves. 

If you have a low temp tank, 70-74 range, then something like loaches make more sense.  Panda garra, based on body shape, I would imagine are similar to those care requirements.   The betta is going to determine the tank temp as it's the focal.  If you want to have something that handles a wider range I think your best bet is a small pleco, shrimp (they usually like it cooler up to a point), or snails.

Thank you! 🙏 All sound advice. I don’t have a betta, but I agree the temp issue is pretty important. I think i can only go as high as 72-74 with the minnows and even that is considered pretty high for them. Def no betta for me in the future i think. Don’t hillstreams like cooler waters too? Small pleco could work too, i’ll need to do more research on them. I’d love something 3-4”max.
 

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/21/2022 at 10:47 PM, Jaspyjasp said:

Small pleco could work too, i’ll need to do more research on them. I’d love something 3-4”max.

Rubberlip pleco will handle the glass for you. It won't work too well on the wood or other surfaces, but they love to clean glass.  It will work on rocks and flat surfaces if they are pretty flat / wide.

[Jaspyjasp]

On 8/21/2022 at 8:52 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Agreed.  Temps alone I know the hillstream loaches won't do well.

Mine, similar to what Cinnebuns mentions will hang out on large flat surfaces and not necessarily where you'd see them a ton.  they camo very well and are usually active at night.  Mine spent a lot of time on the back glass and near the HoB filtration, airstones, and on pleco caves. 

If you have a low temp tank, 70-74 range, then something like loaches make more sense.  Panda garra, based on body shape, I would imagine are similar to those care requirements.   The betta is going to determine the tank temp as it's the focal.  If you want to have something that handles a wider range I think your best bet is a small pleco, shrimp (they usually like it cooler up to a point), or snails.

Thank you! 🙏 All sound advice. I don’t have a betta, but I agree the temp issue is pretty important. I think i can only go as high as 72-74 with the minnows and even that is considered pretty high for them. Def no betta for me in the future i think. Don’t hillstreams like cooler waters too? Small pleco could work too, i’ll need to do more research on them. I’d love something 3-4”max.
 

On 8/21/2022 at 11:02 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Rubberlip pleco will handle the glass for you. It won't work too well on the wood or other surfaces, but they love to clean glass.  It will work on rocks and flat surfaces if they are pretty flat / wide.

Ok thanks! I’ll do some research! This is the tank i’m working with. It’s not that stocked yet because half of the animals are in quarantine right now 😅

 

[RockMongler]

I have a 20L with some hillstream loaches (not reticulated, but the ones Aquahuna sells as the "Chinese Butterfly Pleco"), and they do pretty good.  I'm honestly not sure how much algae they actually eat.  Most surface algae is well controlled in my tank, I get a slight green tinge on my stream cobbles that sit there long enough, but those surfaces don't get completely covered in crazy amounts of algae.  So, I am pretty sure they graze on some surface algaes and biofilm.

I primarily feed xtreme nanopellet, and the two loaches I still have come out in force when they smell the pellets.  The pellets land on their smooth rocks they like to hide among, and they will scoot around eating the micropellets up off the rock.  They are also very much into Repashy Soilent Green.  I have seen some territorality between them, and some of the initial 4 I had might have been bullied away from food enough that they didn't make it, or they died of old age (I am pretty sure they were wild caught).  I had another hillstream loach, of another species, that had an impolite nickname because he was a super territorial jerk.  The other hillstream loaches got chased out of where I could easily ever see them, and I think was not great for their eating habits.  That loach got their own tank where they lived out the rest of their days.  The ones from Aquahuna, once they got some amount of social hierarchy going, I would see all of them in various spots around the tank, grazing or chilling without instantly chasing each other away.

I don't have any experience with panda garras, but they are definitely on my list of fish to have someday.

[Jaspyjasp]

On 8/22/2022 at 10:21 AM, RockMongler said:

I have a 20L with some hillstream loaches (not reticulated, but the ones Aquahuna sells as the "Chinese Butterfly Pleco"), and they do pretty good.  I'm honestly not sure how much algae they actually eat.  Most surface algae is well controlled in my tank, I get a slight green tinge on my stream cobbles that sit there long enough, but those surfaces don't get completely covered in crazy amounts of algae.  So, I am pretty sure they graze on some surface algaes and biofilm.

I primarily feed xtreme nanopellet, and the two loaches I still have come out in force when they smell the pellets.  The pellets land on their smooth rocks they like to hide among, and they will scoot around eating the micropellets up off the rock.  They are also very much into Repashy Soilent Green.  I have seen some territorality between them, and some of the initial 4 I had might have been bullied away from food enough that they didn't make it, or they died of old age (I am pretty sure they were wild caught).  I had another hillstream loach, of another species, that had an impolite nickname because he was a super territorial jerk.  The other hillstream loaches got chased out of where I could easily ever see them, and I think was not great for their eating habits.  That loach got their own tank where they lived out the rest of their days.  The ones from Aquahuna, once they got some amount of social hierarchy going, I would see all of them in various spots around the tank, grazing or chilling without instantly chasing each other away.

I don't have any experience with panda garras, but they are definitely on my list of fish to have someday.

Thank you!! 🙏🙏🙏  It sounds like they do enjoy the company of their peers, which is always fun to watch. 

How has it been with just the 2 loaches? I hear it’s best to have 1 or 3 due to their territorial nature - but, i’d love to have 2 🤣 My tank is pretty long at 36x12, so im wondering if that could be large enuf territories for just 2 hillstreams? 🤔 3 would stretch it for me. I don’t want them to feel lonely tho if I just got 1 hillstream (or garra), which is sort of where I’m headed…

[RockMongler]

On 8/23/2022 at 2:34 AM, Jaspyjasp said:

Thank you!! 🙏🙏🙏  It sounds like they do enjoy the company of their peers, which is always fun to watch. 

How has it been with just the 2 loaches? I hear it’s best to have 1 or 3 due to their territorial nature - but, i’d love to have 2 🤣 My tank is pretty long at 36x12, so im wondering if that could be large enuf territories for just 2 hillstreams? 🤔 3 would stretch it for me. I don’t want them to feel lonely tho if I just got 1 hillstream (or garra), which is sort of where I’m headed…

It seems mostly fine.  One is more dominant than the other, but they are willing to be within line of sight of each other.  The do the occasional hillstream loach shuffle around each other, but they mostly seem to be fine with one another's presence.  This could be because they are male-female pair, as one is noticeably bigger than the other.  Your tank sounds bigger than mine (20L is ~30x12x10).  Around feeding time, they will both shuffle around on the "dominant" pile of stream cobbles, grabbing up the bits of xtreme nano.  A lot of the time, they have resting places, and they move around from day to day.  The most popular spots are right above the air stone on the glass and the pile of cobbles underneath my spreader bar/hang on back return.

[Jmhowe09]

On 8/21/2022 at 7:55 PM, Jaspyjasp said:

Oh wow!! That’s awesome!! Thank you so much for your insight and experience! Do hillstreams they eat all sorts of algae? What about HAIR ALGAE? 🤣 that’s my biggest issue.

I have a 22G long (36x12x12 foot print) and have 8 Venezuelan cories, 6 White clouds, and 6 porkchop rasboras (at the moment). I was considering only 1 panda garra or 1 hillstream loach to keep things minimal, but do you think I will need 3? O_o Will 3  be an issue with the corys or can I just do 1 you think?

Thank you so much!!

Jaspyjasp

 

Mine do not eat hair algae, just surface/film. I do love my hillstream loaches. Hoping to condition them enough to breed yet this year! 

[anewbie]

On 8/21/2022 at 6:55 PM, Jaspyjasp said:

Oh wow!! That’s awesome!! Thank you so much for your insight and experience! Do hillstreams they eat all sorts of algae? What about HAIR ALGAE? 🤣 that’s my biggest issue.

I have a 22G long (36x12x12 foot print) and have 8 Venezuelan cories, 6 White clouds, and 6 porkchop rasboras (at the moment). I was considering only 1 panda garra or 1 hillstream loach to keep things minimal, but do you think I will need 3? O_o Will 3  be an issue with the corys or can I just do 1 you think?

Thank you so much!!

Jaspyjasp

 

For panda gara you really should go with 6; aquahuna sells them.  The hillstream are not really temp compatible with the cory; so consider that.

 

btw nice looking tank. Both the hillstream loach and panda gara love current; the more the marrier. The rasbora might not be as happy with strong current.

Edited August 23, 2022 by anewbie

[Jaspyjasp]

On 8/23/2022 at 4:45 AM, RockMongler said:

It seems mostly fine.  One is more dominant than the other, but they are willing to be within line of sight of each other.  The do the occasional hillstream loach shuffle around each other, but they mostly seem to be fine with one another's presence.  This could be because they are male-female pair, as one is noticeably bigger than the other.  Your tank sounds bigger than mine (20L is ~30x12x10).  Around feeding time, they will both shuffle around on the "dominant" pile of stream cobbles, grabbing up the bits of xtreme nano.  A lot of the time, they have resting places, and they move around from day to day.  The most popular spots are right above the air stone on the glass and the pile of cobbles underneath my spreader bar/hang on back return.

Oh man, that sounds sooo cute. Yeah maybe a male/ female or female/female pair could work. Thank you so much for the extra details. Super helps 🙏🙏🙏 

[Jaspyjasp]

On 8/23/2022 at 8:55 AM, anewbie said:

For panda gara you really should go with 6; aquahuna sells them.  The hillstream are not really temp compatible with the cory; so consider that.

6! o_o I think that is too many for my tank, but thank you for the tip.