Clown Killi Colony

[kahjtheundedicated]

Hello all,

I started putting together a tank for a small clown killi colony, and I want to give them the best chance at producing fry. I've read that to do this, it pretty much needs to be species only. But, would adding a couple nerites to help keep the glass clean compromise that? Or maybe even some shrimp for a fun bottom dweller and general algae control?

Thanks in advance

Edited March 28, 2022 by kahjtheundedicated

[Colu]

If your planing of leaving the eggs in the with adults and hopeing to get some fry I think the shrimp and snails would eat the eggs if your using a spawning mop and removing it to another tank I think that would work

[Odd Duck]

Nerites should be safe with eggs since they are strict algae eaters.  They might accidentally bulldose eggs, though, so keep that in mind.

Neocaridinas (cherry shrimp) are generally considered safe with eggs, but are not 100% safe with either eggs or fry.  If you kept the population of shrimp low and they have plenty to eat, they aren’t likely to be a problem.  Some breeders have been known to use them to keep eggs clean on species that are higher risk for fungus when they can’t trust parents to keep them clean (like angels).

If you are looking for maximum fry production, your water should be so clean that there is no algae growth to worry about and no need for clean up crew.  But that would take more microfauna cultures than a slightly “dirty” tank.  Your choice to make.  It can be tricky to strike the balance between dirty enough to grow microfood vs dirty enough to grow algae.  Or just tolerate a bit of algae.

[kahjtheundedicated]

Thanks for the advice, think I'll leave it truly species only, at least until I have some degree of success to compare against. If I do add anything, it will be a nerite, as I doubt they would make their way onto floating plants anyway.

@Odd Duck I see a lot of conflicting information as far as water goes. Some insist on "clean water", others say lots of algae and even green water, some swear by tannins. And from what I've read about clown killi fry, for the first week they pretty much just eat algae and infusoria. So, if I'm planning on leaving them in the same tank, what should my aim be for the water?

[Odd Duck]

Ah, now you’re asking a question beyond my experience.  General breeding advice I’m comfortable giving, nerites, shrimp, yes, but specific to killies, let’s tag @Fish Folk.  I believe he’s bred killies before.  I’m certain there are others that have as well, but I can’t remember who just this moment.  Maybe Fish Folk will remember.

[Fish Folk]

Honestly, if I were doing this, I'd plan to go about it all in two stages: (1) assisted / nurtured breeding with mops, hatching / grow-out tank, etc (2) once enough fry are old enough to add into a larger colony, I'd allow a massive colony to "do their thing" naturally in a larger tank, loaded with java moss on bottom, and floating plants on top. If you can manage to avoid duckweed, water lettuce or frog bit would be nice. But if you get into duckweed, it tends to take over.

For a detailed look at how I bred and raised up a huge colony of African Fundulopanchax Scheeli (Emerald Killifish), you can go down a NERM-hole at this link.

Here's a photo I took tonight of one of those fry from my colony...

What I'd do now is float a DIY flow-through fry container with java moss and an air stone. I made a post on that recently here on the forum. I'd pull eggs off the mop, and drop in there until they hatch. That maintains the same water chemistry as the tank. I personally DO use a single neocaridina to care for fungus and infertile eggs. I call it my "nurse droid."

The Killi eggs look like tiny little clear glass balls. LRB Aquatics has a fun video on how to make a spawning mop. You can watch it here. 

Let me know if I can encourage you in any way! I'd love to see you enjoy a tank full of Clown Kills. As for cleanliness . . . I'm a fan of algae for fry. But I understand that's not everyone's approach. Dean Tweeddale keeps a fanatically spotless fishroom, and really breeds a load of fish. I'm just more earthy . . . 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Fish Folk

[kahjtheundedicated]

Man thank you for all the info! And a chance to go down the nerm-hole haha

I'll follow your advice with the floating fry container, that seems like a great solution. I have some mini water lettuce on order, and I'll get some java moss too.

Hopefully it goes smoothly, but it's entirely possible I'll have to call upon your sage wisdom in the future haha

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Clown killis in a large enough set up with the water lettuce and the moss as well as another plant like water sprite, guppy grass or hornwort should provide enough cover for the fry. No issues with the nerites or cherry shrimp. Make sure you have a lid, they’re a killi and they love to jump to their death. 

[kahjtheundedicated]

Update: overall it's going reasonably well, but with some hiccups

I got the killis in late april, 6, but one perished within a few hours out of the box, so effectively 5. Only one female. Here is a picture of the tank shortly after adding the fish, about a month after setup.

Inspired by the "Ocean Aquarium" fish store tour, I decided to try thick gravel, though in hindsight I should have used finer gravel. Also some found wood pieces, and oak leaves. Plants are mini water lettuce, rotala, and java moss, all bleach dipped before adding. And a penny to theoretically prevent snails? (spoiler: didn't work)

Water is soft and acidic, and levels have remained pretty constant with 10% weekly water changes. The colors look a little different in the photo, but about ~25 GH, <40KH, ~6.6 ph.

The fish were doing well, but with the males sparring quite a lot, and harassing the female, but she's a trooper. And got some fry early on. I tried using a spawning mop, but could never find eggs, despite fry showing up regularly. Including this very small killi, pinky for scale

It was going really quite well, with the fry growing, with a few now at full size, though only females. Males never seem to make it past juveniles. Maybe the adult males are thrashing them?

Unfortunately I had to move, and in moving the tank I seemed to have lost most of the current crop of fry, and one of the adult males. I haven't really sorted out the tank since I moved, but I have been keeping up with water changes and gotten back on the live food (vinegar eels and mosquito larvae), and also feed fluval bug bites flake.  The current tally is 3 adult males, 4 adult females, and 10-15 fry/juveniles.

They seem to love the bug bites flake, which is great, but they won't eat anything once it sinks. This has led to the tank being somewhat overrun by bladder snails whose eggs must have survived on the plants despite the bleach dips.

Here is the tank in its current disheveled state

I am planning on cleaning it up/rescaping, and hopefully pick out a majority of the snails. I'm also going to try getting some cherry shrimp to take care of the fallen food. Once things have stabilized, I do want to try intentionally breeding some in a separate tank with a spawning mop and grow-out tank since a local shop said they'll buy any I can provide. And it sounds fun.

Thanks for reading along, and as always, feedback and advice is always appreciated!