Plants are slowly wasting away....need diagnosis help

[Bigjwig]

My pklamts are slowly wasting away....certainly not growing. These have been in from 6 months to 3 years....little growth. The Valesneria from the COOP strted strong, duplicating almost every day or 2 but has not stopped and has a black edge around the leaves. You can see the others are at various stages of wasting. The Bacopa has very few leaves left...just the green stems. I feed it Easy GReen and have tried increasing frequency and decreasing frequency for a month at a time with no different results. Wondering about micro nutrients maybe?? My water tests are good...I have had the same Platy's and Neons for the three years !! Nitrate is usually around 20 to 30....PH, and HArdness are in normal range.....   Any suggestions from anyone in the forum would be appreciated. I should have much more growth in the tank with what I have in there....

 

John

[Mmiller2001]

We need more information. 

pH?

GH?

KH?

Ammonia?

Nitrites?

How many Gallons?

How much Easy Green are you using?

What kind of light?

How long is the light on?

How much and how often are you doing water changes?

[Fish Folk]

^agreed^

Also, temperature can be important. My cold water tanks grow plants like mad…

Edited March 26, 2022 by Fish Folk

[Bigjwig]

OK, hopefully I can hit them all !! LOL !! I have had no ammonia or nitrites in a couple of years. PH is 7.0 - 7.2 Total Hardness is usually around100.It is a 55 gallon tank . I have varied my Easy GReen administration. I started with 6 squirts a week. Then went to a squirt each day for a total of 7 ...only doing more when I would do a water change to make up the difference. Then I tried the 6 squirts a week with a couple of supplemental ones mid week. I tried all these for a few months at a time to let the plants catch up with the changes...but there were no changes in the plants. I have a Hygger light (LED) I used to have it on for 6 hours a day...and now I have gone to 8 hours a day. I had it at a strength of 50 to 60 percent and have tried it as high as 80 percent....again with no positive results. I do water changes about every couple of weeks now....as long as the Nitrates remain in the 40 range, I used to do them weekly....about 30 percent....but got away from that following Cory's advice of not changing as long as nitrates are under control. .The only thing I haven't really tried is supplementing micro nutrients...this has been a three year process of very little growth or results!! Thanks for any help or ideas.

 

John

Oh and water temperature is around 77 degrees.

[lefty o]

java ferns dont look bad, so thats good. for the val, they really like some roots tabs. stem plants, i wont advise, if you keep them alive at all you've got me beat.

[Mmiller2001]

I would increase water changes and dose more Easy Green. Tanks where nitrification is making up your NO3 levels typically have problems.

If this was my tank, I'd increase water changes to 50% a week and dose Easy Green at 12ppm NO3 (as Proxy) a week. Remember, these fertilizers are more than NO3, they have P, K and Traces. So, when we hold back on dosing, because our NO3 is high, we then under dose P, K and Traces. Water changes removes nitrified NO3, soluble and insoluble organics allowing us to dose proper fertilizer amounts without exceeding certain targets.

Use this table to help target dose Easy Green. I would start on the leaner side; say 15 pumps a week (after each water change).

Edited March 26, 2022 by Mmiller2001

[Bigjwig]

Thanks for the ideas !! I will try this right away and see what happens.... Thanks again

MMiller.....what do you think about the light time....is 8 hours good?? And what percentage...?? I am doing about 70% now for 8 hours......does that seem about right??

[Mmiller2001]

Light can be tricky and it's best practice too not change too many things at once. That said, I would back it down and reduce to 6 hours. Then I would slowly increase duration after about 3 weeks from the increased dosing. See what 50% does and go from there.

The way I handle light is by watching my tallest plants. I increase light a bit each week. If I start seeing a bit of fuzzy algae on those leaves, I will drop by 2% each week untill it goes away, then I keep those settings.

[Choogie]

I’m reading this with interest! I’ve been dosing 7 pumps a week after a 50% water change on a 72 gallon and plants aren’t growing. I started dosing an extra pump each day till the water change. Nitrates are barely readable, just a trace. This was according to the directions on bottle. 1 pump per 10 gallons/ low light and 2 for med light each week. No Co2 injection. If I’m reading the chart right I’d need to dose 10 times that or 70 pumps per week to get 21 ppm for 70 gallon tank. Is this correct? I have 8 rhizome plants, Anubias and Java ferns, lots of Val’s and maybe 18 stem plants. It’s about time to add some more root tabs for the Val’s. Do they use anything from the water ferts or get all nutrients from the plants tabs/ substrate? I’m not questioning your advice, just making sure I’m not misunderstanding. I know I should add some extra and test before adding more and not just pump 70 and hope it works, but I also don’t want to test 70 times adding 1 pump at a time! Also I have a fluval 3.0 @ 50% peak in 3 periods daily w/2 siestas. Thanks for posting !

[lefty o]

the vals do use some from the water column, but really do better with root tabs.

[Mmiller2001]

Plants pull nutrients from roots and the water column. So your Val's are certainly using both. I've found that root tabs do not improve my plants anymore than just properly dosing the water column. 

Without getting too long winded. Measure from the top of your substrate to the water line. Then measure length and depth. Multiply those together then divide by 231. LxWxD/231=Gallons. Then guestimate decor and filters. Use this number to dose. My 75 gallons is roughly 66 gallons of actual water.

Then dose for an accumulation total. This is the target to achieve. Assuming 50% water changes, you can never exceed 2 times the amount you dose. So if your target is 21ppm NO3, then dose 10.5ppm per week. 2x10.5=21.

Per chart. If 70 gallons:

7 pumps=3ppm NO³

14 pumps=6ppm NO³

21 pumps=9ppm NO³

28 pumps=13ppm NO³

And so on...

But use accumulation totals for dosing.

With non CO2 tanks, medium light, you probably can get away with 12ppm NO³ accumulation. So dose 6ppm NO³ per week for a 12ppm NO3 accumulation.

Edit, 

Plants will consume, so if you dosed 10ppm NO3 in a week, tested and found that you only have 5ppm NO3 in the tank at weeks end, raise your total by 5ppm.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Mmiller2001

[Choogie]

Thanks so much! Your explanation was great but it still took my old brain a few reads to wrap around it. I just did my weekly 50% change so it’s a good day to start. I worked up my target accumulation dose for both tanks for EG, now to do one for the  iron. I have 2 different test kits for iron but they are over 12 yrs old from when I retired and moved. Maybe they still work. But they measure ML/liter. I’ll have look up conversion to ppm. I’ve used inches and feet most of my life. It was a naughty trick someone came up with to start the metric system so late in my life!.. lol. I think they had just stopped using cubits just a few years before I was born!

[Mmiller2001]

On 3/26/2022 at 4:45 PM, Choogie said:

now to do one for the  iron. I

I should have included; for Trace elements just dose a weekly total. Don't go by accumulation totals.

Anywhere from .1 to 1ppm Fe is pretty standard. I dose .5ppm in my CO² tanks and .2ppm in my low energy tank. Weekly.

[Choogie]

Ok thanks!

[Widgets]

On 3/26/2022 at 6:45 PM, Choogie said:

But they measure ML/liter. I’ll have look up conversion to ppm.

1 liter = 1000 ml

1 ppm = 0.001 ml/l

1 ml/l = 1000 ppm 

[Bigjwig]

Hi Again Mmiller, I am the original poster that you responded to. So I did the 50% water change and pumped the 15 squirts into my tank. That was on Saturday. Today, I just received my test strips from the Coop. My readings were between 5 - 10 for Nitrate, ) as usual for Nitrite, Low for KH (around 40) and low for PH ((6.4 or so) These are lower than the readings I usually get using the API test tubes...but this is the first with the Coop test strips. That Nitrate is still so low!!  And how about the PH...is there something I should do about that. Maybe those readings have been low for the past 2 years and I just get lousy results from the API (or I don't read the colors of the liquid right) Any thoughts or advice would again be appreciated. I certainly expected higher Nitrate levels after the 15 squirts and only 2 days !!

[Mmiller2001]

It all depends on which tests you believe are correct. The neons are in near perfect water parameters, but I think platy's like a higher GH and KH. I'm not sure though as I've never kept Platy's. If they are doing well, then I would leave things be.

As far as dosing, remember the accumulation totals. It takes time, around 8 to 11 weeks to get there. Stay the course, and keep an eye on the plants. They will take time to respond.

If you want to raise KH for the Platy's, that's an option and can be addressed. But like I said, I've never kept them.

[Bigjwig]

Thanks for getting back to me. The Platy's mustn't mind as they have all been born in that water!!! Started out with 3 of them, 3 years ago...and I have about 20 in there now!!  There's even a very little one that must have made it through the last births. I was more concerned about if the very low PH or KH would be holding back the plants....or if I should put more Easy Green seeing it went down so quickly. But if it takes 8 to 11 weeks...I guess you think I should just wait until next week and do the 50 % change and 15 squirts again?? IF you don't think the test numbers are a problem...I will just leave them....if it ain't broke don't fix it,,,right?

[Mmiller2001]

I keep my tanks at 0dKH and my low pH is 4.96. What's important is keeping stable GH and KH. Plants love lower KH (a few don't) and some just out right require it.

Just keep an eye on your nitrates as a proxy for dosing. Keeping the tank between 12-20ppm should be fine. If you see that you are dropping below the weekly dose amount, then increase dosing.

[Bigjwig]

Mmiller2001, Sorry to be a pain but I want to make sure I am not doing the wrong thing. So, you are saying that even though 2 days after I put the 15 squirts of easy green into the water the nitrate reading was very low again (under10) that I should still hold off on putting any more easy green in until the weekend when I do the 50 % water change again because there is a cumulative effect, right? Only because last message you said to keep the tank between 12 - 20 ppm (which it still isn't from back to the second day after the fertilization) On the Monday post you had told me to stay the course and that it takes 8 - 11 weeks to "get there" so I am a bit confused on the dosing of fertilizer and when I should do it. Should I squirt to keep it at 12 - 15 or should I dose just the once per week waiting the 8 - 11 weeks for it to "get there". Thanks again for your help with a rookie plant grower !!