Low maintenance denitrifying tanks, 5.5 gallon with nearly zero nitrates.

[GoldyGirl]

On 4/17/2022 at 8:19 AM, R Budds said:

I've watched a few videos by Ozponds and he likes bog filters. He thinks that his are making anoxic conditions near the top, since the pond water enters from the bottom and goes up, then when the water comes to the surface it reoxygenates before flowing back into the pond. It's an interesting filter and kind of like a combination of the BCBs and a plenum. He also mentioned that water flowing through the filter, instead of just around it, seems to work better or more efficiently. 

Your water looks crystal clear. Mine has been cleaner than ever too. 

I've seen some skeptics say that nitrates aren't bad until 1000ppm and that nitrates have to be there anyway for the plants to grow; both of these things may be true but that doesn't really matter to me, all that matters is that my water quality is better than ever and my fish are doing great plus I'm growing plants like I've never been able to before.

My 5.5 gallon is so clear and the fish are so active I wouldn't have thought it was possible with how many I have in there. It has 6 corys and 3 adult guppies plus a 3 week old juvenile that I put back in there today and 2 mystery snails with no signs of stress. 

I’ve just worked out how to respond correctly to your posts without adding to your overall post heheh 

🤭 I 💯 percent  agree with you.

There is no doubt in the results, I’ve never been able to keep plants successfully without a light and fertilisers until the plenum , it’s crazy I still can’t believe the results sometimes. I’m just setting up another plenum this weekend lol 

The hard part is finding undergravel plates locally, I can only get them on the internet so your ideas for setting up your own is a great idea 👌🏾👌🏾 
As for the bogs yes they do work a little differently and I was talking to him about the anoxic set up, he actually set up a specific anoxic tub, but a little differently than his usual bogs . The flow into the tub was a different set up as well.

He did mention that bogs , as long as they are very slow flow rates should have anoxic conditions as well. I think this is why initially when I set my bogs they were to fast flow and I did not see the results.
I have since slowed them drastically and this made all the difference, as well as changing out the pea gravel for baked clay and laterite . I don’t think they are essential but it take a lot longer to see results. 
I think the combination idea is the best, a little aerobic and a little anoxic , both together very effective . 
cheers 🍻 

[Minanora]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:19 PM, GoldyGirl said:

Awsome, I hope you do it’s worth it 😉 

I’ve just worked out how to respond to the posts hahaha 🤪 

It's all good. You'll get the hang of it! ^_^

Happy to welcome you to the community!

Edited April 17, 2022 by Minanora
Forum freaked out.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I’ve been using undergravel filters since I was 10 yo and that’s 36 years now. I think that in the end we all need to remember every surface in the tank can harbor beneficial bacteria. How you harness this potential is up to all of us to decide. I’ve used some of the anoxic principles. I put some lava rocks under my ugfs along with some laterite. Has it helped? Not sure. My ugf tanks have always run better then others. I’ve tried Father Fish’s deep sand substrate it didn’t go great. I might buy his mix from him online and try it again. I continue to diversify my tool box for my fish keeping. 

In my fish keeping its all about the reason for the tank, what who are the inhabitants, will this be a display or a breeding tank, what are my lighting and planting plans. In the end it’s good to have multiple different forms of filtration working synergistically - cannisters and a biobubbler; sponges and a in-tank powehead driven filter; hang on back and ugf; sponges alone; hob alone; ugf alone.  

[GoldyGirl]

On 4/17/2022 at 1:56 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

I’ve been using undergravel filters since I was 10 yo and that’s 36 years now. I think that in the end we all need to remember every surface in the tank can harbor beneficial bacteria. How you harness this potential is up to all of us to decide. I’ve used some of the anoxic principles. I put some lava rocks under my ugfs along with some laterite. Has it helped? Not sure. My ugf tanks have always run better then others. I’ve tried Father Fish’s deep sand substrate it didn’t go great. I might buy his mix from him online and try it again. I continue to diversify my tool box for my fish keeping. 

In my fish keeping its all about the reason for the tank, what who are the inhabitants, will this be a display or a breeding tank, what are my lighting and planting plans. In the end it’s good to have multiple different forms of filtration working synergistically - cannisters and a biobubbler; sponges and a in-tank powehead driven filter; hang on back and ugf; sponges alone; hob alone; ugf alone.  

Yes I tend to agree, a little of both or all three types of bacterial conditions, depending on your tank and habitants, they say a little variety is the spice of life 😁

Most who have been in the hobby a while , like yourself and a do still run the undergravel  filters say much the same and they tend to be the easiest tanks to maintain, and some swear by the canasters , so depending on the set up, heavily planted, low stocked or heavily stocked will depends on works best for the individual.

sponges are also quite popular especially for fry or shrimp tanks so I think a little of both works well together 👌🏾

The one I have not yet tried is father fishes  deep sand bed , I did look into it and I may even still try one yet, but after I tried the undergravel and bcbs I didn’t really want to mess with what worked so well, and I have heard mixed reviews with that as well. 

I also cannot access his mix here so maybe one day it will be available as a bagged substrate all in one , now that would be great. 🤣

I always like to learn and try new things, so these forums are great for everyone’s ideas and inputs 👍🏼

 

 

[Zenzo]

@R Budds I dig your foam box/reflective fabric setup. Cool DIY. 

I feel like my above-pond sump system on my patio pond kind of follows the same principles. Low flow, with the water traveling through about 18" of media. That, coupled with the giant plant growing out of this tub, has reduced nitrates to a level never above 5ppm...even after months of no water changes (just top-offs from evaporation (and rain in the wetter months). 

[R Budds]

On 4/20/2022 at 1:43 PM, Zenzo said:

@R Budds I dig your foam box/reflective fabric setup. Cool DIY. 

I feel like my above-pond sump system on my patio pond kind of follows the same principles. Low flow, with the water traveling through about 18" of media. That, coupled with the giant plant growing out of this tub, has reduced nitrates to a level never above 5ppm...even after months of no water changes (just top-offs from evaporation (and rain in the wetter months). 

Thanks. It's the best all around top I've had. The lighting is evenly distributed and the water's surface is easily and fully accessible. 

It uses normal light bulb sockets so I can swap out the lights easily and adjust the light levels with different bulbs

Just a general update on the 20G long and the 5.5 gallon.

Here are some of the Black Neons in the 20. This one lost its eye about 2 months ago, he's doing well though.

Below is the whole tank, most of it at least.

Some S. Repens, crypts Parva, and Java moss. It's growing great, at least for my skill level.

Below is the 5.5G. The yellow circle is the first born guppy. I'm 80% sure it's a female and the male in here isn't it's father.

I also decided to get some ghost shimp. I put 6 in the 5.5G.

Two more went into the 1 gallon fry jar to clean up a little and see what happens. Hopefully they don't eat any of the babies. This one is either waiting for a little guppy or its catching food.

Both the 20 and 5.5 are at zero nitrates and doing very well. A few plants have dead spots but are doing great for the most part.

I may get a phosphate test to see what's going on with that.

[GoldyGirl]

Everything looks nice and healthy🥰  and plants look like they are doing well, do you find your plants do better with the plenum as well? Or have you always had good growth. I found a big difference in my plants growth once I added the plenum. 
shrimp will love it 😁

[R Budds]

On 4/21/2022 at 11:00 PM, GoldyGirl said:

Everything looks nice and healthy🥰  and plants look like they are doing well, do you find your plants do better with the plenum as well? Or have you always had good growth. I found a big difference in my plants growth once I added the plenum. 
shrimp will love it 😁

The only plant that I was able to grow was wisteria, all the others were stunted and dying. I just added some dwarf hair grass to my 5 5 gallon and I have another clump to add to my 20 long, I hope they do well too.

[R Budds]

Update on all 5 of my denitrifying tanks. These are the test strips and the TDS readings. From left to right: they are all around 6.5pH, the KH is low for all 5, no chlorine, the top 4 are hard (180/200ppm) and the bottom one is softer (around 80ppm), the top 4 have no nitrites or nitrates and bottom one is still cycling.

The top 20 long has low TDS climb. It's top is surprisingly tight and it grows a lot of duckweed. The only maintenance has been pulling the duckweed and some trimming.

The 10 gallon has the tightest top and has the lowest TDS increase. It's high due to the extra iron and regular fertilizer I added when I set it up. I have done little maintenance on this tank besides 2 or 3 filter floss changes and top offs since the beginning of February. One full in-tank filter cleaning due to java moss growing in it. 

The 5.5 gallon's TDS has been climbing due to the top having gaps, I need RO water to top it off with. The fish and plants look good, but I will probably do a 25-30% water change soon to get it into the 400ppm range. I have only changed the filter floss when it gets floaters and topped it off and trimmed the wisteria, with small incidental water changes that went into the 1 gallon jar until it cycled.

The 1 gallon jar's TDS is climbing due to the fry food and its small size. I will probably do a 50% water change on it. Right now it has 17 baby guppies in it.

The new 20 long has increased nitrates of about 40ppm from the tap and the nitrites are just showing, so the cycle has started. It only has 6 baby guppies in it for now but they should cycle it.

The TDS is (was?) GH from my tap water.

I ran an API water softening pillow for 36 hours to lower the GH, it seems to have turned it into something that's still in the water, because most of the TDS of my tap water is GH and the TDS didn't go down to 80ppm.

So far the denitrifying filtration seems to be working well. 

[GoldyGirl]

Awsome 👍🏼 

[BlubAquatics]

How do you know if the reduction in nitrates was due to the plants (especially floating duckweed) or anoxic filtration?

[GoldyGirl]

Because I have never had any reduction prior , the size of my Goldie’s for the size of pond - plants do not use any noticeable nitrates, I have always kept plants , the duck weed I try to add back regularly because my fish will demolish any duck weed on top over night. That duck weed does not last in my pond. It is lost definitely not the plants , I have looked into that also and they only consume a small amount while they are photosynthesising or at peek photosynthesis, maybe in a low stocked aquarium like my betta and shrimp tanks plants help ,  but  with Goldie’s , their waste production is way to high .

[GoldyGirl]

There is always that question tho yes 👍🏼 until you have tried it , it’s hard  to believe I guess, but there is most definitely the science there as to how it works, I’ve always wondered why the nitrogen cycle stopped at nitrates in the hobby , now I understand why, it is not a easy bacteria to establish, aerobic is easy and even anaerobic with deep substrates, but to establish a anoxic ( low o2 zone under .5  Ithink it is ) is much harder to establish, this particular bacteria cannot live in either high o2 zones or no o2 zones.
But it makes sence nature would have the answer yes? we just have to give it the correct environment 😉

Edited August 12, 2022 by GoldyGirl

[R Budds]

On 8/8/2022 at 5:25 AM, BlubAquatics said:

How do you know if the reduction in nitrates was due to the plants (especially floating duckweed) or anoxic filtration?

I can't say for sure since all of my tanks have plants. My 1 gallon has the fewest though and it's been stable for months now with only a tiny amount of duckweed, due to its small surface.

I can say for sure that I had high nitrates and couldn't grow any plants before, so availability wasn't the issue in my opinion.

My nitrates have been at around 30 ppm in my 5.5 gallon for a few months now. It currently had 5 adult guppies, 6 green corys, and a mystery snail. It just has the UGF and an airstone for a couple of months and is doing great.

My 20 long has been setup since the first week of January and is looking awesome. It has almost no algea and the plants and animals are thriving. The nitrates jumped up to 10ppm when I added about 20 female guppies to the tank for a while but the system handled the additional load with no problem.

I attribute the health of my tanks to the UGF slow flow and SafeTSorb substrate. 

[R Budds]

On 8/11/2022 at 11:26 PM, GoldyGirl said:

Because I have never had any reduction prior , the size of my Goldie’s for the size of pond - plants do not use any noticeable nitrates, I have always kept plants , the duck weed I try to add back regularly because my fish will demolish any duck weed on top over night. That duck weed does not last in my pond. It is lost definitely not the plants , I have looked into that also and they only consume a small amount while they are photosynthesising or at peek photosynthesis, maybe in a low stocked aquarium like my betta and shrimp tanks plants help ,  but  with Goldie’s , their waste production is way to high .

I think high waste is one of the keys. My best tanks are heavily stocked. My first 20 gallon really took off when I started adding more fish.

My tiny 5.5 gallon has 11 fish and the filter can only get the nitrates down  30ppm (about 20 less than my tap water) but that seems ideal for the plants and fish since they all seem to be doing great. 

My second 20 gallon long is full of algea. It only has about 14 male guppies and 5 corys and I don't think the waste load is enough to really get it going. The fish seem to be doing very well though.

[R Budds]

13 month update on 20 gallon long. It's still measuring 0 nitrates and the other parameters are stable.

The only maintenance I've done has been topping off with distilled water, cleaning the aglea off the glass, and clearing duckweed/trimming the plants. I have taken about 8 gallons from this tank over the past 10 months to use in newly setup tanks, but no other water changes.

The only water change this tank had was about a year ago when a CFL bulb dumped it's contents into the tank and I drained it down as low as possible to get the white powder out.

The fish seem to be doing very well, for the most part. The Betta I had in here died a few months ago, I had him for a year. He was healthy so I'm pretty sure a Julii Cory killed him. I have 2 Black Neons left from the 5 in my first tank, I got them in Nov 2021. One is fat and active, but has an injury near the base if it's tail, the other has one eye and hides in the plants but seems healthy. The snails have layed eggs twice but nothing came of them. The regular Neon Tetras are doing great although they were getting skinny when I had 6 female guppies in the tank for a few months. The guppies would eat all the food, so they are now with the other females in their 29 gallon tall paludarium. I got a "Mermaid" betta from a big name pet store and he's doing great so far, he matches the Neons well.

Now back to the Juliis. I started out with 5, from the LFS, then added 1 from a big box store and now I have 7. The 7th one appeared about 2 weeks after the Betta died. It was about 1/4 the size of the others. I realized that they had babies and one survived. My assumption is that the Betta had eaten one of the baby Juliis and chocked.

This picture is from December 3rd the first time I saw the little one. The picture is fuzzy but it's right next to the big one.

The plants seem to be growing fairly well. Sorry the pictures aren't too good, I couldn't get the glare to go away.

Here are some pictures from today. 

Here is the little Julii below, the one by the snail, it's almost fully grown.