orange Venezuelan cory catfish, no chill?

[Mary Mckinny]

I received 6 orange Venezuelan cory today and they have virtually non-stop swimming, is this normal?

Tank is 39 gallons, been setup for 10 months, and had 3 Amano shrimp till a few days ago. Filtration is Aquarium Co-Op sponge filters.

Parameters obtained by Aquarium co-op test strips

0- ammonia

0-nitrites

~25 - nitrates

very hard over 300

Buffer ~40

PH ~7

temp 78

 

Mary

 

 

[Flumpweesel]

Mine are very active and slightly more skittish than others. I have lots of caves and cover that they exploit. But seem happy b enough in their frantic manner. Had them years and even those hatched in the tank behave the same 

[Mary Mckinny]

Thank you! I wasn't expecting this level of activity so it's worrying me. I will keep an eye on them and the parameters.

[Flumpweesel]

I noticed that adding a pair of air stones last year reduced the amount they surface gulp. If they are doing that a lot maybe add an air line.

[Mary Mckinny]

On 3/11/2022 at 3:43 AM, Flumpweesel said:

I noticed that adding a pair of air stones last year reduced the amount they surface gulp. If they are doing that a lot maybe add an air line.

I have two sponge filters with airstones in the aquarium, does that count as airstones or should the airstones not be part of filtration?

 

Mary 

[Flumpweesel]

That should be fine.  Part of the charm of all the corys is their generally busy nature, they seem to prefer lower light levels so mine scurry around in and out of the shady places.

Relax as long as they are eating they are probably fine.

[Mary Mckinny]

Just lost 2 of the 6, they were swimming and eating in the morning and checked on them this evening and found 2 dead. Had them just over 24 hours >.< I did a small water change and starting the med trio on the tank. Praying the others pull through but not hopeful at this point. They stopped the constant swimming and are now hovering on the bottom looking scared (T.T)

[Jawjagrrl]

I'm wondering if they are experiencing ph shock? The last fish I ordered online arrived in after around 6.8, so I had to drip acclimate for some time to adjust them to 7.6. 

I had similar behavior with a betta I was moving from one tank to another here at home and assumed the ph was close in all of them. When I tested his starting tank it had dropped to 6.8. I moved him back for the night and tried again with drip acclimation the next day and he did much better.

[Mary Mckinny]

On 3/11/2022 at 9:17 PM, Jawjagrrl said:

I'm wondering if they are experiencing ph shock? The last fish I ordered online arrived in after around 6.8, so I had to drip acclimate for some time to adjust them to 7.6. 

I had similar behavior with a betta I was moving from one tank to another here at home and assumed the ph was close in all of them. When I tested his starting tank it had dropped to 6.8. I moved him back for the night and tried again with drip acclimation the next day and he did much better.

It is likely, I can't move them to another tank but I did add some aquarium salt to the tank. I was intending to try a drip acclimate but the place I got them from did not recommend it so I didn't >.< angry at myself now.

[Brandon p]

I don’t think it was ph shock. .2 difference in ph would not cause that.  Corys tend to be very active after a move. I do have a question. Where they shipped or from the LSF? 

[Mary Mckinny]

On 3/11/2022 at 9:37 PM, Brandon p said:

I don’t think it was ph shock. .2 difference in ph would not cause that.  Corys tend to be very active after a move. I do have a question. Where they shipped or from the LSF? 

They were shipped out Wednesday and arrived at 9am Thursday in acclimated and in the tank by 10am on Thursday.

I've been having issues with cory's previously lost 10 and then 5 pygmy cory's from a local fish store, was told they can be sensitive and to try a different supplier, went with a larger cory, and a trusted Supplier that has very good success rates (Dan's Fish). I really think its a problem on myside and not suppliers. 

[Jawjagrrl]

On 3/12/2022 at 12:29 AM, Mary Mckinny said:

It is likely, I can't move them to another tank but I did add some aquarium salt to the tank. I was intending to try a drip acclimate but the place I got them from did not recommend it so I didn't >.< angry at myself now.

Hopefully the salt helps. I may be totally off though. Do you happen to know the Ph of the source water? @Brandon p is right that a change of .2 or less shouldn't be too bad, but in my case it was .8, which is a lot.

On 3/12/2022 at 12:44 AM, Mary Mckinny said:

They were shipped out Wednesday and arrived at 9am Thursday in acclimated and in the tank by 10am on Thursday.

I've been having issues with cory's previously lost 10 and then 5 pygmy cory's from a local fish store, was told they can be sensitive and to try a different supplier, went with a larger cory, and a trusted Supplier that has very good success rates (Dan's Fish). I really think its a problem on myside and not suppliers. 

Maybe not you. That was two different changes in water in 48 hours for the little guys. Even with acclimation that can be stressful. When I had an lfs I always waited a few days after fish arrived before purchasing, figuring any that traveled poorly were weeded out by then.

[Mary Mckinny]

On 3/11/2022 at 9:46 PM, Jawjagrrl said:

Hopefully the salt helps. I may be totally off though. Do you happen to know the Ph of the source water? @Brandon p is right that a change of .2 or less shouldn't be too bad, but in my case it was .8, which is a lot.

No, I took a test of the water they came in but forgot to write it down. 

[Brandon p]

Corys don’t always ship well. I think part of it depends on the shipper of course but anything with sharp fins bounced around and bumping into each other. Depending on the shipper they may not be sedated and it would be natural for fins to be out and up. There is a reason they double bag these fish.  I tend not to drip acclimate most of the time. I just got 24” 1 inch discus and only lost one. The water was as different as it could be almost. It was probably less of what you did  and more of what they went through. 

[Brandon p]

On 3/12/2022 at 12:44 AM, Mary Mckinny said:

They were shipped out Wednesday and arrived at 9am Thursday in acclimated and in the tank by 10am on Thursday.

I've been having issues with cory's previously lost 10 and then 5 pygmy cory's from a local fish store, was told they can be sensitive and to try a different supplier, went with a larger cory, and a trusted Supplier that has very good success rates (Dan's Fish). I really think its a problem on myside and not suppliers. 

I would not be so sure corys are hard to ship. It’s one of the few fish if I can get at a local trusted LFS I will. I have a good relationship and yes you can order everything on line now and maybe for less, but my LFS will order what I want and then hold it for me for a week. He does a great job. He likes it because I get fish that he might not normal stock and that at least has people ask questions and maybe sell a few extra fish. He has called a asked if he could sell mine and makes me a deal. Don’t be so hard on yourself with these corys.

[Mary Mckinny]

T.T 

Still losing them, down to 2 from the the original 6. Rams seem to be ok, all three are schooling and looking at me judgementally during their excursions from behind the sponge filter.

I'm desperate at this point so I've removed the Cory's from the tank filled a 5g bucket with clean water and put a sponge filter init they are now in the bucket with a cover over it for shade. Praying for them now.

 

If everything dies in this tank its getting yeeted, I'm thinking its cursed some how.

[Jennifer V]

Wishing you best of luck! 

[Odd Duck]

Cories that get stressed can produce toxins that can kill them in the bag.  I think sometimes they can have lasting effects from it, too, even if they got less than immediately toxic doses.  I had 8/10 laser cories die over the course of 2 months despite them eating, lots of hides, lots of plants in both QT and the 20 gallon they went into.  They never had outward signs of disease, but would be randomly found dead for no apparent reason I could find.

I just did a dive into available literature and found a nicely done master’s thesis that found several prostaglandins that were found in the water after toxin release and in tissues that were thought to be the venom glands.  “Prostaglandins” covers some wide territory since some can be good and some can be bad.  As a group, they can have some very wide ranging effects on the body.

I suspect this is an area that may get more study, but I have to wonder if some of the unexpected deaths we see in cories is from them unintentionally poisoning themselves from release of these venons/toxins due to stressors that happen before we ever get them.  The master’s study did document one cory that released cloudy fluid twice from the area of the suspected venom glands - once when initially stressed, then again just a few minutes later.

Do some small, daily water changes with as little fuss as you can manage for a while until everybody stabilizes.

[Brandon p]

I had a Shippment of snails not make it. I have never had this happen before. I shipped a 100 ramshorn and 30 blue mysterysnails( I didn’t, my son did when I was out of actuion) the strangest thing happened they froze on a  2 day shipping, with a heat pack(72 hour). Shipping is getting harder. The buy was upset but with usps. He sent photos and the boxes were crushed. To be as bad as there were it looked like the tried to break them. I going to reship free  but he asked I wait a few more weeks. They are going through a lot of stress no matter which companies ship

[Odd Duck]

On 3/12/2022 at 7:43 PM, Brandon p said:

I had a Shippment of snails not make it. I have never had this happen before. I shipped a 100 ramshorn and 30 blue mysterysnails( I didn’t, my son did when I was out of actuion) the strangest thing happened they froze on a  2 day shipping, with a heat pack(72 hour). Shipping is getting harder. The buy was upset but with usps. He sent photos and the boxes were crushed. To be as bad as there were it looked like the tried to break them. I going to reship free  but he asked I wait a few more weeks. They are going through a lot of stress no matter which companies ship

It doesn’t matter a bit how carefully things are packed if equipment doesn’t work right or some fool is careless or cruel with live animals.  Sorry for the loss and the hassle of replacing.

[Brandon p]

On 3/12/2022 at 8:58 PM, Odd Duck said:

It doesn’t matter a bit how carefully things are packed if equipment doesn’t work right or some fool is careless or cruel with live animals.  Sorry for the loss and the hassle of replacing.

I felt bad for my buyer and my son because he was just trying to help when I was out of action. He packed them better than me. Snails are Tuff so corys can have no chance sometimes. 

[Torrey]

On 3/11/2022 at 10:44 PM, Mary Mckinny said:

They were shipped out Wednesday and arrived at 9am Thursday in acclimated and in the tank by 10am on Thursday.

I've been having issues with cory's previously lost 10 and then 5 pygmy cory's from a local fish store, was told they can be sensitive and to try a different supplier, went with a larger cory, and a trusted Supplier that has very good success rates (Dan's Fish). I really think its a problem on myside and not suppliers. 

Did you watch the Members Only talk on corys and cory venom?

Corys can literally kill themselves with their own venom if they get too stressed, which is why they have a reputation for being finicky. Here, if the store orders corys for a direct pick up, they recommend you come with fresh water and fresh bags, and they don't even bother putting them in the store tank. If any of the corys are on their side when they get to the store, it's instant water change. A lot of places single cory/ bag cories for this reason... My cranial flatulence isn't providing better recall, I would strongly encourage looking back through the members videos though...

[Torrey]

On 3/12/2022 at 6:04 PM, Odd Duck said:

Cories that get stressed can produce toxins that can kill them in the bag.  I think sometimes they can have lasting effects from it, too, even if they got less than immediately toxic doses.  I had 8/10 laser cories die over the course of 2 months despite them eating, lots of hides, lots of plants in both QT and the 20 gallon they went into.  They never had outward signs of disease, but would be randomly found dead for no apparent reason I could find.

I just did a dive into available literature and found a nicely done master’s thesis that found several prostaglandins that were found in the water after toxin release and in tissues that were thought to be the venom glands.  “Prostaglandins” covers some wide territory since some can be good and some can be bad.  As a group, they can have some very wide ranging effects on the body.

I suspect this is an area that may get more study, but I have to wonder if some of the unexpected deaths we see in cories is from them unintentionally poisoning themselves from release of these venons/toxins due to stressors that happen before we ever get them.  The master’s study did document one cory that released cloudy fluid twice from the area of the suspected venom glands - once when initially stressed, then again just a few minutes later.

Do some small, daily water changes with as little fuss as you can manage for a while until everybody stabilizes.

@Odd Duck were you able to catch the Members talk on cory venom?

[Mary Mckinny]

On 3/12/2022 at 9:43 PM, Torrey said:

Did you watch the Members Only talk on corys and cory venom?

Corys can literally kill themselves with their own venom if they get too stressed, which is why they have a reputation for being finicky. Here, if the store orders corys for a direct pick up, they recommend you come with fresh water and fresh bags, and they don't even bother putting them in the store tank. If any of the corys are on their side when they get to the store, it's instant water change. A lot of places single cory/ bag cories for this reason... My cranial flatulence isn't providing better recall, I would strongly encourage looking back through the members videos though...

Yes I did watch the talk, it was fascinating. Still heartbreaking. Last 2 are alive in a covered bucket. Still praying they make it.

[Torrey]

::fingers crossed::