Pea puffer wasting away and not eating

[Barb Bell]

Hello,

I have been keeping pea puffers/dwarf puffers for 10 months (but I have been keeping freshwater aquaria since the 80s). I have 7 of them in a long-established, heavily planted 20 gallon, along with a bristlenose pleco, 2 siamese algae eaters, a bumblebee goby and 3 nerite snails. The pea puffers were small and young when I bought them, so they are all a little over a year old at this point. One of my puffers is not eating, wasting away to a skeleton. This is the third time this has happened to one of my pea puffers, although the first two times this happened, the puffers were newly-acquired and never ate for me after I bought them. This is the first time one of my established, healthy puffers has stopped eating and started wasting away.

I treat all of my fish with quarantine trio when I get them, so all of these fish have been through that medication regimen once. Additionally, I treated the entire display tank with a combination of Ruby Reef Kich Ich and Rally since getting these fish. I have not added any new fish since then. No new fish, snails or plants since last October, or since treating with multiple meds. 

When I see a pufferfish wasting away, my first thought is to suspect parasites. Other than its caudal fin looking like someone has been chewing on it, I don’t see any disease markers like cottony growth, spots, ulcers etc.

None of the above-mentioned medications helped the previous 2 wasting pea puffers. They simply never ate after I brought them home last year, and wasted away.

Any ideas on what could be causing this inappetance and wasting away?

Should I still go ahead and treat the display tank with Quarantine Trio? Or something else?

Will Quarantine Trio kill my nerites or plants?

I have attached 2 photos of the sick pea puffer and a photo of my tank.
 

I feed the fish a rotation of these Hikari frozen foods: omega-enriched brine shrimp, plain brine shrimp, Spirulina mysis shrimp, plain mysis shrimp, blood worms. They refuse to eat frozen daphnia, cyclops or tubifex worms. I occasionally feed them Fluval Bug Bites (which they sometimes eat, sometimes don’t).

pH: 7.2 (before turning on the paintball CO2)

Ammonia: 0

nitrite: 0

nitrate: between 20-40

GH: 89.5ppm

KH: 4dKH

water temperature: 78F

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Barb Bell

[eatyourpeas]

Are there any snails in the tank for them to hunt and eat? It appears to me even though you rotate food, it is still a diet of shrimp and bloodworms. They may not be getting all the nutrients they need. Have you tried non-frozen foods? Perhaps adding a few snails? Poor little dude... I hope he recovers. 🐡

[quikv6]

So, I have never had puffers, so I can't speak to any puffer-specific info. I have had quite a few bouts of wasting disease. Often, they involve the fish not eating, or trying to eat, but spitting.

None of the meds in the trio would help that. I recommend Levamisole (Expel-P) or Flubendazole. To be honest, I recommend Flubendazole significantly more, but it's harder to obtain, and harder to work with.

With Levamisole, you can dose the water column, though it may be more effective in the food, if the fish is eating. Flubendazole sees to be better absorbed by the gills, in the situations where the fish isn't eating.

The fish will starve, so my recommendation would be to act fast.

[Barb Bell]

On 2/22/2022 at 11:45 AM, quikv6 said:

So, I have never had puffers, so I can't speak to any puffer-specific info. I have had quite a few bouts of wasting disease. Often, they involve the fish not eating, or trying to eat, but spitting.

None of the meds in the trio would help that. I recommend Levamisole (Expel-P) or Flubendazole. To be honest, I recommend Flubendazole significantly more, but it's harder to obtain, and harder to work with.

I’ve ordered flubendazole. I’m guessing it will kill my nerites, yes? 

On 2/22/2022 at 11:38 AM, eatyourpeas said:

Have you tried non-frozen foods? Perhaps adding a few snails?

Can you be more specific what you mean by “non-frozen foods?”

I haven’t been able to find snails locally.

[eatyourpeas]

On 2/22/2022 at 1:32 PM, Barb Bell said:

Can you be more specific what you mean by “non-frozen foods?”

I mean live foods. Scuds, snails, blackworms, bloodworms...

[Colu]

On 2/22/2022 at 9:32 PM, Barb Bell said:

I’ve ordered flubendazole. I’m guessing it will kill my nerites, yes

I would remove your nerite snails if your using flubendazole it will kill them

Edited February 22, 2022 by Colu

[Barb Bell]

On 2/22/2022 at 5:05 PM, Colu said:

I would remove your nerite snails if your using flubendazole it will kill them

I have moved the nerites to a quarantine tank.

[Barb Bell]

On 2/22/2022 at 5:05 PM, eatyourpeas said:

I mean live foods. Scuds, snails, blackworms, bloodworms...

No, I have a really hard time getting to my closest fish store, which is 40 minutes away. But I’m thinking about it.

[Patrick_G]

I don’t have anything constructive to add but I can be supportive by pointing out what a beautiful tank you have! 

[Barb Bell]

On 2/22/2022 at 6:01 PM, Patrick_G said:

I don’t have anything constructive to add but I can be supportive by pointing out what a beautiful tank you have! 

Thank you! You also have a gorgeous tank.

[Barb Bell]

On 2/22/2022 at 5:52 PM, Barb Bell said:

No, I have a really hard time getting to my closest fish store, which is 40 minutes away. But I’m thinking about it.

I’ve been pondering this, and will most definitely drag my carcass to the fish store if they have a variety of live food I don’t have in the freezer already (in the past they’ve only had brine shrimp), and I’m going to also see if the puffers will eat Vibra Bites (they sometimes eat Fluval bug bites) and Repashy Grub Pie. I’m also thinking about adding Vita Chem to the Bug Bites, Vibra Bites and Grub Pie (if the puffers will eat them). 

[Colu]

On 2/23/2022 at 1:46 PM, Barb Bell said:

I’ve been pondering this, and will most definitely drag my carcass to the fish store if they have a variety of live food I don’t have in the freezer already (in the past they’ve only had brine shrimp), and I’m going to also see if the puffers will eat Vibra Bites (they sometimes eat Fluval bug bites) and Repashy Grub Pie. I’m also thinking about adding Vita Chem to the Bug Bites, Vibra Bites and Grub Pie (if the puffers will eat them). 

If your don't have one I would recommend getting a 5 gallon tank and starting a bladder snail or Ramshorn snail colony to feed your puffers

[Patrick_G]

Hatching some baby brine shrimp might also be something to try. 

[Barb Bell]

On 2/23/2022 at 8:56 AM, Colu said:

If your don't have one I would recommend getting a 5 gallon tank and starting a bladder snail or Ramshorn snail colony to feed your puffers

I’ll ask the fish store if they have any. They haven’t in the past, but I know these pest snails come in on plants regularly, so maybe I can catch them at the right time.

[Barb Bell]

On 2/22/2022 at 5:05 PM, eatyourpeas said:

I mean live foods. Scuds, snails, blackworms, bloodworms...

I was able to get live blackworms and bladder snails from an aquarium store today. 

Success! I got about half a dozen bladder snails today. 

On 2/23/2022 at 8:56 AM, Colu said:

If your don't have one I would recommend getting a 5 gallon tank and starting a bladder snail or Ramshorn snail colony to feed your puffers

[quikv6]

If and when you use the flubendazole, my suggestion would be to try and dissolve it first in very hot water, and then let the water cool to closer to tank temp before adding in. Flubendazole does not dissolve very well. It isn't the easiest to work with, but in my experience with wasting, it has been more effective than Levamisole.

I have stuck with 3 doses in total, about 3-4 days apart, with a partial water change right before each dose.

[Barb Bell]

On 2/24/2022 at 3:25 PM, quikv6 said:

If and when you use the flubendazole, my suggestion would be to try and dissolve it first in very hot water, and then let the water cool to closer to tank temp before adding in. Flubendazole does not dissolve very well. It isn't the easiest to work with, but in my experience with wasting, it has been more effective than Levamisole.

I have stuck with 3 doses in total, about 3-4 days apart, with a partial water change right before each dose.

Thank you for this information. Very helpful. The flubendazole is on its way in the mail, and I will definitely use it when it gets here (projected to get here Saturday). The aquarium store I went to today didn’t have levamisole or flubendazole, sadly. I hope the poor fish hangs in there until Saturday. It tried to eat live blackworms today but spit them all out in the end. It was clearly very interested in the food, but spit it out.

[quikv6]

Barb Bell,

What you are describing is exactly what I have experienced. The fish is hungry and wants to eat. The parasite causes the equivalent of a "sore throat" so to speak, and the fish is unable to swallow, and spits it out. To me, this is where Flubendazole has done better than Levamisole.

As soon as you get it, I'd do a partial water change, and add it in right away. I actually microwave a coffee mug full of dechlorinated water for a minute, til it's really hot. Then I try to dissolve the dose in the mug. You'll need to really swirl and mix it in with a spoon. Once it is dissolved as best as you can, you can add a bit of tank water to the mug, cooling down the mixture. Then just add it to the tank.

I also sprinkle it on frozen bloodworms, and try to let it absorb as they defrost. The faster you can get it in the fish's gut, the faster it'll work. I have found that within a day or two, the fish can swallow again.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

[Barb Bell]

On 2/24/2022 at 8:07 PM, quikv6 said:

Barb Bell,

What you are describing is exactly what I have experienced. The fish is hungry and wants to eat. The parasite causes the equivalent of a "sore throat" so to speak, and the fish is unable to swallow, and spits it out. To me, this is where Flubendazole has done better than Levamisole.

As soon as you get it, I'd do a partial water change, and add it in right away. I actually microwave a coffee mug full of dechlorinated water for a minute, til it's really hot. Then I try to dissolve the dose in the mug. You'll need to really swirl and mix it in with a spoon. Once it is dissolved as best as you can, you can add a bit of tank water to the mug, cooling down the mixture. Then just add it to the tank.

I also sprinkle it on frozen bloodworms, and try to let it absorb as they defrost. The faster you can get it in the fish's gut, the faster it'll work. I have found that within a day or two, the fish can swallow again.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

This is VERY helpful, thank you. I will follow these instructions.

[quikv6]

Any update on the puffer?

[Barb Bell]

On 2/28/2022 at 6:48 PM, quikv6 said:

Any update on the puffer?

Sadly, the flubendazole was delayed in the mail for days, and she died while I was waiting for it to arrive. I checked local stores, but they didn’t have it. It finally arrived yesterday, and I’m treating the whole tank with it.

[quikv6]

I'm really sorry to hear that. Darn.

[Barb Bell]

For what it’s worth, I tried Repashy Grub Pie. 4 of 6 puffers ate it enthusiastically. The two that didn’t are my pickiest eaters and the smallest, slowest growers. Those 2 also refused bloodworms. All 6 refused Vibra Bites, but the 4 biggest puffers will eat Fluval Bug Bites.  I’ve had my bladder snail colony for a week, and they have already produced snaibies.
Thank you to everyone that responded to this thread.