Possible Mystery Illness in Betta

[paarkrosis]

yeah, another sick betta. I got him back in August from petco and he’s been active up until a week ago. Now all he does is stay at the surface and in a certain corner of the tank. He’s also terrified of his reflection when he’d used to flare at it immediately. I’ve given him epsom salt baths twice a day for 3 days but stopped as I felt it was just stressing him out. At this point I’m kind of spitballing and treating with maracyn 2 because I thought he might’ve had the start of dropsy and he has a split in his tail ( that might’ve been my fault ). Rascal is in a 10gal with a filter & air stone, so there shouldn’t be an oxygen issue but he’s always breathed kind of heavy. His heater keeps the tank at 78f, ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 5ppm, & pH 7.8

 

[Torrey]

He's a lovely boi!

If he's suddenly running away from his reflection, that's his way of keeping himself safe from a potential rival when he's not feeling his best.

If you are a club member on YouTube (Aquarium Co-op channel on YouTube), I would recommend looking up the talk with Gianne on bettas. She had incredibly helpful information that I didn't know, like the proper development of the labyrinth organ requires high humidity at the surface of the tank. 

Many of the big box stores get their betta from areas where fresh, clean water is a luxury, so the betta are bred and raised with at least some salinity in their water. Increasing the humidity to enable an easier time breathing, is a quick and easy step to reduce their stress to make healing easier: just put saran wrap over the top of the tank. 

Bettas tend to be happier and less stressed between 80° F and 82° F water. They can survive at lower temperatures, but they will be prone to more stress related diseases. 

Bettas love live plants, but it can be difficult finding plants that enjoy the warmer temperatures. 

I did not ever find any medications that worked better than aquarium salt, with the exception of paracleanse for parasites. 

I did have one male who preferred the quarantine tank to his own tank, and would self-harm to get back into the Q/T.

Only real difference between the Q/T and his tank was 1 tablespoon of aquarium salt/5 gallons. Hornwort does not seem as bothered by slight salinity, and thrives in my Q/T.

It's also important to remember that we have no idea how old the fish are that we buy in the fish store. While bettas with pristine water conditions, an ideal heat of 80°, fed live food and with live plants can live past 5 years, most bettas in captivity will struggle to make it past 2 years,  and some don't make it that long.

It looked like in your other pictures, that there are either silk or plastic plants in with your betta. Long finned betta have been known to damage fins (and especially their tails) when they try to rest on their artificial plants. 

Even if you aren't ready to dive into the world of solely live plants in tanks, pothos roots are great "hammocks" for betta fish. Those fancy tails are really heavy to lug around. Giving betta live plants to rest in / sleep on, allows them to conserve energy to be used for healing. 

If this betta were in my care, I would (based on what I can see in the photos, and your description of his behavior) add 1 Tablespoon aquarium salt to 5 gallons of water. I would offer live foods, like baby brine shrimp, daphnia, and even some scuds, and only feed enough to see the belly develop the smallest bulge.

I would observe bowel habits, and see if the betta is constipated (will have a longer poo that doesn't break off easily) or possibly has parasites (white poo, and poo that is longer than a couple of pellets side by side).

If bowel habits are fine, live foods, clean water, and a couple of weeks in water with 1 tablespoon/5 gallons of water (I do a 50% water change every 3 to 4 days, and add the 1 TSP aquarium salt to the 5 gallons of water I return to the tank, to maintain a stable salinity of 1 TSP/ 5 gallons) should perk up Rascal and see him healing. 

If you don't see a noticeable difference in 5 - 10 days (I take daily pictures for comparison) it's time to start more trouble shooting. 

[Healthy betta poo is shaped almost like a miniature football, and is only millimeters long. Long, stringy poo is a symptom of something being wrong. Daphnia clear up constipation in bettas, and baby brine shrimp are super nutrient dense while also sparking the prey drive. Feed a tiny amount at a time, with a pipette, and see if Rascal eats them all. Use an infant nasal syringe to remove any leftover food, and any poo from Rascal. Betta can be really hardy, and heal themselves, as long as we minimize their stress levels sufficiently]

[Torrey]

On 12/16/2021 at 9:15 PM, Torrey said:

He's a lovely boi!

If he's suddenly running away from his reflection, that's his way of keeping himself safe from a potential rival when he's not feeling his best.

If you are a club member on YouTube (Aquarium Co-op channel on YouTube), I would recommend looking up the talk with Gianne on bettas. She had incredibly helpful information that I didn't know, like the proper development of the labyrinth organ requires high humidity at the surface of the tank. 

Many of the big box stores get their betta from areas where fresh, clean water is a luxury, so the betta are bred and raised with at least some salinity in their water. Increasing the humidity to enable an easier time breathing, is a quick and easy step to reduce their stress to make healing easier: just put saran wrap over the top of the tank. 

Bettas tend to be happier and less stressed between 80° F and 82° F water. They can survive at lower temperatures, but they will be prone to more stress related diseases. 

Bettas love live plants, but it can be difficult finding plants that enjoy the warmer temperatures. 

I did not ever find any medications that worked better than aquarium salt, with the exception of paracleanse for parasites. 

I did have one male who preferred the quarantine tank to his own tank, and would self-harm to get back into the Q/T.

Only real difference between the Q/T and his tank was 1 tablespoon of aquarium salt/5 gallons. Hornwort does not seem as bothered by slight salinity, and thrives in my Q/T.

It's also important to remember that we have no idea how old the fish are that we buy in the fish store. While bettas with pristine water conditions, an ideal heat of 80°, fed live food and with live plants can live past 5 years, most bettas in captivity will struggle to make it past 2 years,  and some don't make it that long.

It looked like in your other pictures, that there are either silk or plastic plants in with your betta. Long finned betta have been known to damage fins (and especially their tails) when they try to rest on their artificial plants. 

Even if you aren't ready to dive into the world of solely live plants in tanks, pothos roots are great "hammocks" for betta fish. Those fancy tails are really heavy to lug around. Giving betta live plants to rest in / sleep on, allows them to conserve energy to be used for healing. 

If this betta were in my care, I would (based on what I can see in the photos, and your description of his behavior) add 1 Tablespoon aquarium salt to 5 gallons of water. I would offer live foods, like baby brine shrimp, daphnia, and even some scuds, and only feed enough to see the belly develop the smallest bulge.

I would observe bowel habits, and see if the betta is constipated (will have a longer poo that doesn't break off easily) or possibly has parasites (white poo, and poo that is longer than a couple of pellets side by side).

If bowel habits are fine, live foods, clean water, and a couple of weeks in water with 1 tablespoon/5 gallons of water (I do a 50% water change every 3 to 4 days, and add the 1 TSP aquarium salt to the 5 gallons of water I return to the tank, to maintain a stable salinity of 1 TSP/ 5 gallons) should perk up Rascal and see him healing. 

If you don't see a noticeable difference in 5 - 10 days (I take daily pictures for comparison) it's time to start more trouble shooting. 

[Healthy betta poo is shaped almost like a miniature football, and is only millimeters long. Long, stringy poo is a symptom of something being wrong. Daphnia clear up constipation in bettas, and baby brine shrimp are super nutrient dense while also sparking the prey drive. Feed a tiny amount at a time, with a pipette, and see if Rascal eats them all. Use an infant nasal syringe to remove any leftover food, and any poo from Rascal. Betta can be really hardy, and heal themselves, as long as we minimize their stress levels sufficiently]

I wrote out all of that, and omitted the key to maintaining a healthy betta long term, even after you have weaned them off of the aquarium salt: use Indian Almond leaves. You really can't have too many, and the tannins are a natural immune booster for bettas (there's quite a bit of peer-reviewed research on the therapeutic value of IAL tannins for betta, and the control of fin rot (both bacterial and fungal), body slime and the health of the labyrinth organ. 

[eatyourpeas]

That is wonderful information on Bettas, thanks @Torrey!

[paarkrosis]

So, Rascal is still with us and seems okay, but still kind of lounging at the top. It seems I’m an idiot and was absolutely convinced my aquaclear filter never came with activated carbon, so I never checked. Guess who figured out it does when I was switching filters on Rascal’s tank and likely wasted a weeks worth of maracyn 2 treatment? 

[Torrey]

If it helps you feel a little better, as long as you have not changed the carbon since the summer, you probably didn't waste the maracyn 2.

 

Activated carbon rarely stays active this long.

 

<Glad Rascal is still here!>

[paarkrosis]

On 12/31/2021 at 1:15 AM, Torrey said:

If it helps you feel a little better, as long as you have not changed the carbon since the summer, you probably didn't waste the maracyn 2.

 

Activated carbon rarely stays active this long.

 

<Glad Rascal is still here!>

Well, that does make be feel better. It’s a big pouch of activated carbon, though.

 

Anyways, I’m eventually going to treat him again with the pouch removed this time. I also have the whole menagerie of medication this time ( maracyn 1 & 2, paracleanse & ich-x ). 

[paarkrosis]

Rascal is still going but my cycle crashed and I didn’t notice. The ammonia was 0ppm but the nitrites were at ungodly amounts and he now has these discolored patches on him. At first, I thought he just burnt himself on the heater but then I saw the nitrites. I’ve taken care of the levels, but now what should I do for him? He’s developed some fin rot too. 

[H.K.Luterman]

On 12/30/2021 at 11:59 PM, paarkrosis said:

So, Rascal is still with us and seems okay, but still kind of lounging at the top. It seems I’m an idiot and was absolutely convinced my aquaclear filter never came with activated carbon, so I never checked. Guess who figured out it does when I was switching filters on Rascal’s tank and likely wasted a weeks worth of maracyn 2 treatment? 

Are you using filter cartridges? When you clean the filter, are you discarding them? 

[paarkrosis]

On 2/1/2022 at 10:55 AM, H.K.Luterman said:

Are you using filter cartridges? When you clean the filter, are you discarding them? 

No, I have an aquaclear so it has the sponge & matrix. I’m pretty sure the medication ( antibiotics ) caused it to crash and I wasn’t doing big enough water changes and/or not frequent enough. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by paarkrosis

[H.K.Luterman]

On 2/1/2022 at 10:10 AM, paarkrosis said:

No, I have an aquaclear so it has the sponge & matrix. I’m pretty sure the medication ( antibiotics ) caused it to crash and I wasn’t doing big enough water changes and/or not frequent enough. 

Ah ok. Yeah I lost my cycle once when using Furan 2 I think. I hope your betta buddy feels better soon!

[paarkrosis]

On 2/1/2022 at 11:25 AM, H.K.Luterman said:

Ah ok. Yeah I lost my cycle once when using Furan 2 I think. I hope your betta buddy feels better soon!

I was using maracyn 1 & 2. I hope he bounces back, I think I traumatized him. He’s afraid of me now. He’ll swim down to the bottom of his tank and hide as soon as he sees me. If he’s in his floating log and doesn’t see me, he’ll hide as soon as he hears the lid open. He won’t come back up until I leave even if I feed him. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by paarkrosis

[Torrey]

On 2/1/2022 at 9:10 AM, paarkrosis said:

No, I have an aquaclear so it has the sponge & matrix. I’m pretty sure the medication ( antibiotics ) caused it to crash and I wasn’t doing big enough water changes and/or not frequent enough. 

This is why I don't want to use antibiotics for my 2 tanks that insist on growing cyanobacteria. 

I don't want to deal with the beneficial bacteria crash in UGF, it's a royal pain.

 

For Rascal: nitrite burns, like ammonia burns, can affect gills, labyrinth organ, and the scales & fins. The great news is you caught it and are remedying the situation. 

Bettas who are kept with Indian Almond leaves benefit from the IAL specific tannins, and will have stronger immune systems to fight off opportunistic infections. 

Sometimes a little aquarium salt added to the water can also help, sometimes the aquarium salt merely irritates the nitrite burns.

I would boil some IAL in dechlorinated water, allow the water to cool to aquarium temp, and pour water + leaves into the aquarium. Make sure the water is well aerated, and keep the air between the water and the lid a toasty 80 to 82° F, and 90% humidity so the labyrinth organ can recuperate. 

If temp in the tank is 80° to 82° F, and Rascal has strong tannins from IAL, his fins and scales will heal. Ammonia and nitrite damage to the gills may not heal, so it is very important to test Rascal's water regularly. 

@dasaltemelosguy posted great research on aeration with various meds, I would recommend saving the research to help prevent aggravating Rascal's gills in the future. 

[paarkrosis]

On 2/1/2022 at 11:28 PM, Torrey said:

This is why I don't want to use antibiotics for my 2 tanks that insist on growing cyanobacteria. 

I don't want to deal with the beneficial bacteria crash in UGF, it's a royal pain.

 

For Rascal: nitrite burns, like ammonia burns, can affect gills, labyrinth organ, and the scales & fins. The great news is you caught it and are remedying the situation. 

Bettas who are kept with Indian Almond leaves benefit from the IAL specific tannins, and will have stronger immune systems to fight off opportunistic infections. 

Sometimes a little aquarium salt added to the water can also help, sometimes the aquarium salt merely irritates the nitrite burns.

I would boil some IAL in dechlorinated water, allow the water to cool to aquarium temp, and pour water + leaves into the aquarium. Make sure the water is well aerated, and keep the air between the water and the lid a toasty 80 to 82° F, and 90% humidity so the labyrinth organ can recuperate. 

If temp in the tank is 80° to 82° F, and Rascal has strong tannins from IAL, his fins and scales will heal. Ammonia and nitrite damage to the gills may not heal, so it is very important to test Rascal's water regularly. 

@dasaltemelosguy posted great research on aeration with various meds, I would recommend saving the research to help prevent aggravating Rascal's gills in the future. 

Unfortunately, I didn’t/don’t have any almond leaves on hand and I haven’t been able to go anywhere. I was able to add in another air stone and turn his heater up, though. I also put more stresscoat because it also has aloe vera in it…I figured it would help with his burns. I managed to get his parameters back to where they should be. He’s still not 100% which is to be expected. He hides in his floating log most of the time but he’ll still eat, at least. 
 

here’s what he looks like today. you can tell he still doesn’t feel good, but he’s better than what he was. his burns don’t look as red either, so hopefully he’s on his way to healing 

[Torrey]

On 2/4/2022 at 6:23 AM, paarkrosis said:

didn’t/don’t have any almond leaves on hand and I haven’t been able to go anywhere.

He is looking much better. 

I do a quarterly order, and include IAL in every order. I know that isn't an option for everyone, and I don't know if you had considered it. 

If keeping bettas long term, I do recommend IAL as that is something betta splendens (and many other types of bettas) depend on having in their water for optimal health... IAL is in their natural environment, and I believe they are used to being able to seek it out when they are injured or sick.

I try not to deny any of my fish things they depend on in the wild to help maintain optimal health. 

Glad your boy is making a strong recovery!

[paarkrosis]

On 2/4/2022 at 2:00 PM, Torrey said:

He is looking much better. 

I do a quarterly order, and include IAL in every order. I know that isn't an option for everyone, and I don't know if you had considered it. 

If keeping bettas long term, I do recommend IAL as that is something betta splendens (and many other types of bettas) depend on having in their water for optimal health... IAL is in their natural environment, and I believe they are used to being able to seek it out when they are injured or sick.

I try not to deny any of my fish things they depend on in the wild to help maintain optimal health. 

Glad your boy is making a strong recovery!

Oh, I definitely ordered some and it was supposed to be delivered today but we got a huge storm and it flooded big time, so everything has been rescheduled. I even got him mopani wood, so it would leach out tannins for longer and give his tank more of a blackwater look. 
 

I even got him a new little cave so he can hide in. I’m wanting to get him more plants, but I was waiting to actually go to the LSF to pick them out 

[Torrey]

Ooph, flooding is no fun.

I mean, it's single digits here and snow + ice = everything got shut down, but cold snow and ice don't carry the risk of mold afterward. 

I hope you stay warm and dry!

[paarkrosis]

Hey, so, I’m not really sure Rascal is getting any better. To me, it seems like he’s getting worse despite getting back to regular water changes and IALs and driftwood being added to his tank for tannins. Could it be something else wrong with him?

[Colu]

Still look like he has some fin rot if he still lethargic he's probably still fighting an infection as you have add salt and Indian almond leaves and treated with maracyn and maracyn2 what I would do is course Kanaplex in food it's a more broad spectrum antibiotic treatment

[paarkrosis]

On 2/14/2022 at 5:49 PM, Colu said:

Still look like he has some fin rot if he still lethargic he's probably still fighting an infection as you have add salt and Indian almond leaves and treated with maracyn and maracyn2 what I would do is course Kanaplex in food it's a more broad spectrum antibiotic treatment

Thanks for the advice, but I still doesn’t have the kanaplex yet ( it’s ordered but taking forever to get here and I don’t have anywhere local that has it in stock ). He started looking worse, so I’m trying maracyn 1 & 2 again but keeping a better look at his parameters this time. I know it says it can be hard on his organs, but I don’t think he has a whole lot of options at this point. If the maracyn doesn’t work, how long should I wait to give him the kanaplex once it gets here? 

[Colu]

On 2/23/2022 at 12:31 AM, paarkrosis said:

If the maracyn doesn’t work, how long should I wait to give him the kanaplex once it gets here? 

If you see no improvement after treating with maracyn  I would wait a couple of days then start treating with kanaplex

Edited February 23, 2022 by Colu

[paarkrosis]

Took a quick picture of him tonight. 

[paarkrosis]

Finally got the kanaplex and focus to bind it to his food. Got garlic guard just in case, but he‘s still wanting to eat. Tomorrow is the last dose for the maracyn. I know it says to do a 25% water change, but since I used both maracyn 1 & 2 should I do a 50% or just stick to 25%? 
 

Also.

Worst case scenario: what do I do if both the maracyn & kanaplex doesn’t work? 

Edited February 24, 2022 by paarkrosis

[Colu]

I would do 25% water change and run carbon for 24hr if you don't have carbon I would do a 50% water change worst case scenario cross that bridge when you come to it hopefully kanaplex will do the trick

[paarkrosis]

On 2/23/2022 at 7:10 PM, Colu said:

I would do 25% water change and run carbon for 24hr if you don't have carbon I would do a 50% water change worst case scenario cross that bridge when you come to it hopefully kanaplex will do the trick

Yeah…I hope so too. He’s what got me back into fishkeeping. Anyways…do you have any idea of what it might be that he’s suffering from? Also, should I keep his heater set at 80f or drop it down some?