Advice For Lowering and Maintaining a Lower PH

[Minanora]

My tap water is very hard and the pH is a solid 8.

In my 75G the substrate and driftwood help; the pH is a 7.7-7.8 in that tank.

However I would like to start keeping cherry shrimp. I was going to get some today but upon further research I wanted to make sure I knew exactly what I'm doing when it comes to the pH of the tank. (I got permission to do another tank!!!!) WOOOOO!

I'm thinking that I want to shift the pH of all my tanks to a more acidic environment.  I know I want to gradually get to the pH over several weeks, and I want it to be a stable/sustainable change.

My 75G has a canister; the 20G is a HOB.

What can I do to begin to adjust my pH down? I want to get to 7.

And I feel like I can manage water changes by only changing a max of 25% at a time; but I'd like to avoid using exclusively R.O. water, but I can do that; it just takes time... my R.O. water is coming out at 6.2.

How do I keep the pH stable without affecting the KH and GH?

This is a battle I've been wanting to fight for a while. Anyone have advice?

 

Thank you in advance!

Edited November 6, 2021 by Minanora
Just re-tested my R.O. water

[Schwack]

I don't have a ton of info on pushing pH around, but I can say with certainty that cherry shrimp can thrive at 8-8.2 pH. Even my first generation of shrimp did pretty well once I started adding supplemental calcium/magnesium.

Is there something specific you want to keep that absolutely can't tolerate even a neutral pH?

[Minanora]

@Schwack, Wow that is good to know. My LFS keeps their shrimp at 6.5-6.8. I really want the Sakura orange shrimp variety (Neocaridina davidi).  And I feel like everything I keep would do better at a more neutral pH (which is more acidic to my more alkaline pH). I think I should have been more clear on my verbiage surrounding my meaning of "more acidic".

I keep Corydoras, Oto's, Guppies, Harlequin Rasboras (which I understand prefer a pH of around/below 7), Swordtails, and Neon/Glowlight Tetras.

Seems like different sources say that Neocaridina davidi shrimp varieties can be kept at higher pH levels. I just want everyone to be happy, and it would be cool for everyone to be more likely to spawn.

[Struggle]

My Neos are in 7.8 ph and do perfectly fine. As for lowering your ph you can use ro water and remineralize or cut it with tap. Unless you’re keeping something that demands a lower ph, stability usually trumps trying to chase water parameters. The only tanks that we manipulate parameters for on a regular basis are the Caridina shrimp. In order to do that we use ro water, remineralize it with GH only, No KH and activated substrate.

I may do a water change with straight ro water if I’m trying to trigger some fish to spawn but it’s not necessary for the fish I keep.

[Minanora]

@Struggle Thank you.

Alright. I can do that.  Yeah I can agree with stability, I really want to make sure everything stays stable.

I'll work with my RO and see how it goes. Our dang tap water.... I love the hardness and magnesium content but dang, between 8.0-8.2 is rough.

My husband is into this enough that he is happy to expand our RO holding capacity to 5G... Though I'm sure he just wants the capacity for brewing beer.... 😛

[Minanora]

What about CO2 injection? How much does that affect pH? I've been scared to use CO2 because of that actually.

[Schwack]

It'll acidify your water, but you'd have to inject quite a bit to get a full 1.0 swing. Mine drops .4 out so throughout the day and then comes back to 8 overnight.

[Minanora]

On 11/5/2021 at 6:57 PM, Schwack said:

It'll acidify your water, but you'd have to inject quite a bit to get a full 1.0 swing. Mine drops .4 out so throughout the day and then comes back to 8 overnight.

So I use CO2 in my keezer in my garage and I force carbonate beer for bottling.

The acidification that happens is from the carbonic acid I assume... I'm glad to know that it isn't a long term change. Very interesting... For some reason I was thinking that it was permanent alteration to the water chemistry. I haven't done a lot of research, but that makes me a lot more comfortable... and I really want to do CO2. I have a mild obsession with plants.

[Wingman12r]

Your shrimp will do fine in the PH and will appreciate the hardness. I keep my blue cherry shrimp in nearly the exact same water parameters.

[Atitagain]

I’m trying to get rummynose tetra to breed so I’ve been trying to get the PH in my 8.0 tank down. What I’ve done : added a lot of driftwood, a lot of Indian almond leaves, a lot of plants, and a lot of Adler cones. I’m down to 6.9-7.1 depending on time of day. I’ve done this slowly over a couple months. Making sure to not have swings just a gradual steady drop.
I need to get down in the low 6s for best chances. So I will be adding more of the above list and adding peat pellets to my filtration (testing in another tank now), adding seed pods, adding acorn caps, different types of leaves oak preferably, and adding leaf litter. If this doesn’t get me down to atleast 6.5 I will add peat to my substrate and Fluval stratum (probably adding this sooner in potted plants)

I know there are other ways probably even easier routes to get these fish to breed. I have no idea if I will succeed. But I want a darkwater tank to mimic their natural environment.

take all this with a grain of salt. I am not an expert and just now traveling this road. I’ve done my research and minimal experience to get here and this is the plan I’ve come up with.

[Minanora]

@Wingman12r and @Schwack When you started with your shrimps, do you remember the pH of the water they came from? I'm wondering, if I buy shrimp from my LFS that are living in that 6.8 pH water, how well they'll take to drip acclimation. I just got corys from them that were at a pH of 6! I drip acclimated them for 5 hours, which I hope was enough. They seem to be doing well.

I just worry about the hardiness of the shrimps, they're not cheap and I want to make sure they have the best chance at success.

Thank you guys.

[Schwack]

On 11/5/2021 at 9:04 PM, Minanora said:

@Wingman12r and @Schwack When you started with your shrimps, do you remember the pH of the water they came from? I'm wondering, if I buy shrimp from my LFS that are living in that 6.8 pH water, how well they'll take to drip acclimation. I just got corys from them that were at a pH of 6! I drip acclimated them for 5 hours, which I hope was enough. They seem to be doing well.

I just worry about the hardiness of the shrimps, they're not cheap and I want to make sure they have the best chance at success.

Thank you guys.

Unfortunately, I never bothered to check. In my experience, pH has been one of those parameters that's gotten a bit overblown by the internet, with the exceptions of cases like @Atitagain is describing. Shrimp are the one critter I do drip acclimate, but typically only for ~an hour. I can't say I've ever had a loss from "parameter shock."

[Wingman12r]

On 11/5/2021 at 11:04 PM, Minanora said:

@Wingman12r and @Schwack When you started with your shrimps, do you remember the pH of the water they came from? I'm wondering, if I buy shrimp from my LFS that are living in that 6.8 pH water, how well they'll take to drip acclimation. I just got corys from them that were at a pH of 6! I drip acclimated them for 5 hours, which I hope was enough. They seem to be doing well.

I just worry about the hardiness of the shrimps, they're not cheap and I want to make sure they have the best chance at success.

Thank you guys.

When I bought mine I happened be driving through Temple Texas and saw a reddit post and messaged the seller. So I'm not exactly sure what the specific water parameters were. However Texas generally has hard high PH water. I didn't lose a single shrimp though.

[Kittkat1981]

I did not read through the other posts so someone probably already said this .....but.  I use ro/di. Have to.  Our water here is 44dGh 46 dKh.   Liquid rock. I keep angels and a few other soft water fish.  When I do water changes, I use Equilibrium and Kent's marine kh buffer to put the water right where I need it.  I use easy green for my plants and vitachem for the fish to replace any nutrients they don't get otherwise.  My pH stays around 7.  Slightly higher some times due to a heavy hand with the buffer but never more than 7.2.   My Kh i keep around 4.  It still gives you super soft water but its enough buffer to keep the tank from going crazy.  These are just my experiences, yours may varie

[Mmiller2001]

You won't be able to lower pH, effectively or consistently, without lowering KH. I would would drop your KH to 3dKH and you will be about a 7.0pH. 

FYI

 

[Gator]

I also use RO/DI water for my 29G tank, but to make the water softer for my blackwater fish, I put about a tablespoon of peat moss into a fine mesh bag and add it to my filter, peat moss keeps my water softer than it needs to be, but my fish love it. I believe your Angelfish would also love peat moss.

[Minanora]

Thank you everyone. My plan is to switch to a stronger mix of R.O. water and less tap water. I am letting my 10g quarantine tank do a fishless cycle and I'll use it to experiment since it only has plants in it right now. I generally never let nitrates get over 10ppm but I'm curious to see what higher levels will do to kh when using more R.O. as well. I'll pick up some equilibrium this week. I know my KH will be lower with a lower pH. My worry was how fragile pH can be with lower KH. I'm probably worrying too much though. I can supplement KH to keep the pH from dropping too quickly.

 

@Gator Interesting to know about peat moss. I currently don't keep angels. I love them though!