Attaching java moss

[Helan]

How do I attach a bunch of java moss to a log?, it’s super messy

[Guppysnail]

I had luck before cutting apart a large holed mesh media bag and securing the bag over the moss until it attached which took a good while and looked awful until it did but it was affective. It grew best with white vs black mesh did ok but not great. It was the only way to keep my critters from yanking it apart right away. 

[Odd Duck]

On 10/19/2021 at 5:34 AM, Helan said:

How do I attach a bunch of java moss to a log?, it’s super messy

I usually try to glue it using super glue gel if I want the whole glob of moss t attach, but it tends to come loose that way.  It works better for me to glue or tie smaller amounts to the item and let a big glob just float in my grow out tanks.  If I want to end up with a beautiful clump growing on the wood, I chop the moss into about 1/2” chunks and tie it in place.  Josh Sims has a few demo videos floating around (one is on Green Aqua’s website, I think).

One of the tricks is getting just the right thread that lasts long enough for the moss to attach itself but doesn’t last so long that a goofy fish gets itself tangled and injured.  You want a fairly thick, 100% cotton thread.  Some use fishing line, but you have to go back and remove that after about a month.

I tie larger amounts of chopped moss on wood that isn’t too sharply tapered.  Take a peek at my 29 G redo in my sig.  look at the last posting I did with pictures.  The snails apparently bit the thread!  But the moss is attaching fine (I need to post update pics).

It would have been EXTREMELY tedious to glue ALL those moss bits.  I had dozens of chopped moss pieces.  Moss will grow from each cut end when chopped, so it grows in much denser when you chop before applying.  I did glue a few small bits to the sharply tapered point, to areas where it wasn’t practical to tie, or when using up bits that were too small to tie.

I’ll see if I can come back later this morning after the lights are on and do some update pics.  The tank is coming along nicely except for some staghorn algae.  Despite the snails chopping through and loosening the thread, the moss appears to be adhering well.  The thread pieces appear to have dissolved away.  The areas where I had some slightly thicker thread, it has persisted longer.

[Helan]

On 10/19/2021 at 7:56 PM, Odd Duck said:

I usually try to glue it using super glue gel if I want the whole glob of moss t attach, but it tends to come loose that way.  It works better for me to glue or tie smaller amounts to the item and let a big glob just float in my grow out tanks.  If I want to end up with a beautiful clump growing on the wood, I chop the moss into about 1/2” chunks and tie it in place.  Josh Sims has a few demo videos floating around (one is on Green Aqua’s website, I think).

One of the tricks is getting just the right thread that lasts long enough for the moss to attach itself but doesn’t last so long that a goofy fish gets itself tangled and injured.  You want a fairly thick, 100% cotton thread.  Some use fishing line, but you have to go back and remove that after about a month.

I tie larger amounts of chopped moss on wood that isn’t too sharply tapered.  Take a peek at my 29 G redo in my sig.  look at the last posting I did with pictures.  The snails apparently bit the thread!  But the moss is attaching fine (I need to post update pics).

It would have been EXTREMELY tedious to glue ALL those moss bits.  I had dozens of chopped moss pieces.  Moss will grow from each cut end when chopped, so it grows in much denser when you chop before applying.  I did glue a few small bits to the sharply tapered point, to areas where it wasn’t practical to tie, or when using up bits that were too small to tie.

I’ll see if I can come back later this morning after the lights are on and do some update pics.  The tank is coming along nicely except for some staghorn algae.  Despite the snails chopping through and loosening the thread, the moss appears to be adhering well.  The thread pieces appear to have dissolved away.  The areas where I had some slightly thicker thread, it has persisted longer.

Sound tedious 

[Odd Duck]

On 10/19/2021 at 7:02 AM, Helan said:

Sound tedious 

It is, but the moss attaches MUCH better this way.  It may not attach well if you don’t chop it.  I’ve had moss come loose months later if I just glued big globs to the wood trying to jump start the process.  That was before I watched the Josh Sims tutorial/master class video.

[Helan]

On 10/19/2021 at 8:08 PM, Odd Duck said:

It is, but the moss attaches MUCH better this way.  It may not attach well if you don’t chop it.  I’ve had moss come loose months later if I just glued big globs to the wood trying to jump start the process.  That was before I watched the Josh Sims tutorial/master class video.

Well I will try and see how it goes

[Odd Duck]

@Helan Good luck!  Give yourself plenty of time.  Use lots of thread!

[Helan]

On 10/19/2021 at 8:14 PM, Odd Duck said:

@Helan Good luck!  Give yourself plenty of time.  Use lots of thread!

I anticipate chaos 🤣

[Odd Duck]

Here’s the link to the video.  It’s longish, but it’s fascinating and worth watching.  Josh Sims has a ridiculous number of world titles so I figure I can’t go wrong trying to imitate about anything he does.

 

 

[Helan]

Ok so I tried it how did I do?

[Odd Duck]

I’m afraid your ball of moss is not really going to attach well.  Underneath all that only a few strands are going to get good contact.  When you remove your string most of it will billow out and the bottom strands may or may not stick.  This is exactly how I attached moss the first time and it didn’t stay attached.  There was too much pull on the moss with relatively light current for the few little attachments to hold.

This is how I attach moss, now, after watching the video of Josh Sims attaching the moss.

1. Freshly attached.

2. After the snails cut some of the threads (but the moss was still holding).

3. Tonight.  Everything is holding well although I haven’t actually tugged on it.  I won’t have fish in for another week or so but I have plenty of snails and some Amano shrimp in here already.

4. Different type of moss.  You can see where I ran out of the thicker thread and switched to the thinner stuff that the snails chewed through (that is now all gone).  All parts appear to be holding well.

5. Spots I glued instead of tying because these are short, very sharply tapered points and trying to tie would have been a losing battle.  I applied tiny dots of glue and stuck small pieces of moss, one on each side of the glue dot, and another on top in the center if there was any glue still showing.

Cutting the moss seems to trigger it to both start growing but also to attach by whatever means it can.  Not cutting the moss doesn’t trigger it to try to attach or to grow.  You will get some growth from the ends of the strands but you won’t get dense growth and Java moss isn’t known for dense growth anyway.

You will get nice loose growth that fish will zoom through but that will tend to tug it loose.

[Helan]

On 10/20/2021 at 11:26 AM, Odd Duck said:

I’m afraid your ball of moss is not really going to attach well.  Underneath all that only a few strands are going to get good contact.  When you remove your string most of it will billow out and the bottom strands may or may not stick.  This is exactly how I attached moss the first time and it didn’t stay attached.  There was too much pull on the moss with relatively light current for the few little attachments to hold.

This is how I attach moss, now, after watching the video of Josh Sims attaching the moss.

1. Freshly attached.

2. After the snails cut some of the threads (but the moss was still holding).

3. Tonight.  Everything is holding well although I haven’t actually tugged on it.  I won’t have fish in for another week or so but I have plenty of snails and some Amano shrimp in here already.

4. Different type of moss.  You can see where I ran out of the thicker thread and switched to the thinner stuff that the snails chewed through (that is now all gone).  All parts appear to be holding well.

5. Spots I glued instead of tying because these are short, very sharply tapered points and trying to tie would have been a losing battle.  I applied tiny dots of glue and stuck small pieces of moss, one on each side of the glue dot, and another on top in the center if there was any glue still showing.

Cutting the moss seems to trigger it to both start growing but also to attach by whatever means it can.  Not cutting the moss doesn’t trigger it to try to attach or to grow.  You will get some growth from the ends of the strands but you won’t get dense growth and Java moss isn’t known for dense growth anyway.

You will get nice loose growth that fish will zoom through but that will tend to tug it loose.

So I need to add more strings?

[Odd Duck]

On 10/20/2021 at 6:03 AM, Helan said:

So I need to add more strings?

I would make some cuts in the moss and add more strings. And you could divide you moss between multiple pieces of wood or rock. Or you could cut just a small section of moss into 1/2-1” pieces to tie on, then leave some just free floating in a bunch since it grows just fine that way, too.

You have plenty of moss there, you could do all kinds of things with it!

Edited October 20, 2021 by Odd Duck

[Torrey]

On 10/19/2021 at 6:25 AM, Odd Duck said:

Here’s the link to the video.  It’s longish, but it’s fascinating and worth watching.  Josh Sims has a ridiculous number of world titles so I figure I can’t go wrong trying to imitate about anything he does.

 

 

This may be one of my favorite videos of Josh!

That being said, I don't do moss that way 🤣

I have successfully done the blender and paint method, it does require patience. 

I have superglued moss, but I have not found that to be as successful. 

The most successful way to propagate moss, that I have found, is to grow it between 2 pieces of plastic canvas, and I pull out plugs as I need them. The plastic canvas sits on a bed of activated carbon in a pyrex rectangle, and then I put down the moss on top of the first plastic mesh (I started with a plug smaller than a quarter, this is a 5"×7" pyrex food container), then place another piece of plastic canvas mesh on top and let the moss grow through the mesh. (My light seems to have washed out the green, because irl it's much greener in appearance)

I pull plugs out of the center and put them on wood that has soaked but isn't sinking yet. As the wood slowly sinks, the moss attaches, begins to grow, and acclimates to immersed growth. 

The moss here is slowly taking over this knoll of wood. Periodically the snails will eat it a bit aggressively, but it always looks better after the 'haircut'

[Odd Duck]

On 10/21/2021 at 10:10 PM, Torrey said:

This may be one of my favorite videos of Josh!

That being said, I don't do moss that way 🤣

I have successfully done the blender and paint method, it does require patience. 

I have superglued moss, but I have not found that to be as successful. 

The most successful way to propagate moss, that I have found, is to grow it between 2 pieces of plastic canvas, and I pull out plugs as I need them. The plastic canvas sits on a bed of activated carbon in a pyrex rectangle, and then I put down the moss on top of the first plastic mesh (I started with a plug smaller than a quarter, this is a 5"×7" pyrex food container), then place another piece of plastic canvas mesh on top and let the moss grow through the mesh. (My light seems to have washed out the green, because irl it's much greener in appearance)

I pull plugs out of the center and put them on wood that has soaked but isn't sinking yet. As the wood slowly sinks, the moss attaches, begins to grow, and acclimates to immersed growth. 

The moss here is slowly taking over this knoll of wood. Periodically the snails will eat it a bit aggressively, but it always looks better after the 'haircut'

How long does it take for you to get plugs of moss by your plastic mesh layering method?  Does that work for any kind of moss?  I’ve thought about doing the blender and paint method and I may try that for the Christmas moss I want to use in my angelfish tank.  I would think it will be easier to get a more natural look by dabbing moss “paint” on the high points and topsides of my “roots” look driftwood I’m putting in that tank.

It’s been around 5.5 weeks since I chopped and tied moss for the 29 G and I used pretty slow growing mosses in there.  They grow at about 1/2 the rate of Java or Christmas moss.  The Mini Weeping moss (that ain’t weeping yet 😠) grows faster than the other 2 I used.  The Hooker’s moss is growing a faster than the Jade Lotus moss, almost as fast as the Mini Weeping.  Jade Lotus is SLOOOOOWWWW and just seems less vigorous than any of the other mosses I’ve tried.  Christmas, and especially Java, moss put everything else to shame on growth rate.  😃 

[Torrey]

On 10/22/2021 at 12:26 AM, Odd Duck said:

How long does it take for you to get plugs of moss by your plastic mesh layering method?  Does that work for any kind of moss?  I’ve thought about doing the blender and paint method and I may try that for the Christmas moss I want to use in my angelfish tank.  I would think it will be easier to get a more natural look by dabbing moss “paint” on the high points and topsides of my “roots” look driftwood I’m putting in that tank.

It’s been around 5.5 weeks since I chopped and tied moss for the 29 G and I used pretty slow growing mosses in there.  They grow at about 1/2 the rate of Java or Christmas moss.  The Mini Weeping moss (that ain’t weeping yet 😠) grows faster than the other 2 I used.  The Hooker’s moss is growing a faster than the Jade Lotus moss, almost as fast as the Mini Weeping.  Jade Lotus is SLOOOOOWWWW and just seems less vigorous than any of the other mosses I’ve tried.  Christmas, and especially Java, moss put everything else to shame on growth rate.  😃 

It depends on the moss as to how long it takes.

The picture I sent you *started* as only a plug the size of a quarter. I got it out of a local acequia, end of summer last year. 

I washed it like Tanner teaches in his videos, covered the bottom of the pyrex with activated charcoal, put in the rectangle of mesh, the quarter plug, the 2nd layer of mesh, enough water to barely cover the bottom mesh, and then sealed the top with saran wrap and put it on my plant shelf under the shop light.

3 months later, the mesh was covered, and I used all but a piece the size of a quarter, and gave it another 3 months before I harvested.

This particular moss does best emmersed. In the blender and painting on the wood, it took a little over 8 weeks to get to 3/4" high moss. Sadly, my attempt to get it to grow fully immersed failed, so I am only using small plugs on wood or cholla, right at the water line.

The Christmas moss using the blender method, is pretty well established after 8 weeks. 

 

There's a good video, I will see if I can find it. The other mosses in the blender take about 12 weeks... the same time it takes a quarter sized plug to expand and grow over a  5"×7" plastic canvas. 

Benefits of the canvas: they make selling moss to the lfs very easy. It's also a really **really** easy way to make a moss wall in a tank.

Then airline tubing suction cups will hold the moss wall in place in the tank.

Both methods grow faster in the emmersed state, but you can easily use the last 2 weeks of growth to slowly adapt them to immersed state with actual aquarium mosses (like java, etc).

I harvest most of my moss, and some of them are used to seasonal flooding (acequia), and I never know until I try🤷‍♂️ which leads to another benefit of plastic canvas method: I can lift moss that grows better emmersed, out of the tank for a week each month, and keep it growing. 

Painted moss on permanent hardscape turns into snail food if the moss doesn't like to be immersed for more than 3 months.