Caridina or Neocaridinia Shrimp?

[Dwayne Brown]

Hi all, I am wondering if there are any care or hardiness differences such as water quality, water temp, tank size, filtration, between the Caridina shrimp and the Neocaridinia shrimp. I am also wodering if the Caridina shrimp are as easy to breed as Neocaridinia or if they need more specialized care to achieve that? One more thing, how do they differ? I can see the difference in pattern but they look similar if not identical in size and shape.

Thanks

[Scapexghost]

In general neocardinas are hard water shrimp while cardinas are soft water shrimp, but there are plenty of exceptions. For example cardinal shrimp are cardinas but they require hard water. Neocardinas are generally easier to care for and to breed. Do you have any specific cardinas in mind? Amano shrimp, crystal shrimp, and cardinal shrimp are all cardinas but have wildly different care and breeding requirements.

[Dwayne Brown]

@Scapexghost I was thinking about doing the crystal, king kong, or pinto caridina shrimp, or some of the common colors (or some of the not so common) Neocardinia shrimp. My water is incredibly soft, so much so I have to add crushed coral to keep tetras. I was originally thinking of breeding the Neocardinias to be soft water hardy but if some of the caridina shrimp do well in soft water I might opt for them. As far as a setup goes I have a 5 gallon aquarium that I am setting up and getting ready to cycle. After that I'll wait awhile until algae grows considerably before adding the shrimp. I really am leaning towards general hardiness to decide which one to get, I have never had shrimp before and want to make sure that I can be as successful as possible with them. 

 

[Patrick_G]

I started with Neos because everything I read said they were easier. Now I think I should have started with Cardina because of our soft NW water. 

[Dwayne Brown]

@Patrick_G Did you find the Neocardinia hard to keep in soft water? Or it more like some livebearers were each generation gets more hardy? Have you by any chance kept Caridina shrimp? 

[Patrick_G]

On 10/14/2021 at 4:32 PM, Dwayne Brown said:

@Patrick_G Did you find the Neocardinia hard to keep in soft water? Or it more like some livebearers were each generation gets more hardy? Have you by any chance kept Caridina shrimp? 

I struggled with Neos at first but yes they seems to get more hardy with each generation. Now I have a thriving colony of mutts in my community 75, and a stable but not breeding group of reds in my 11 gal. 
I would love to keep some Caridina at some point, but I’m a little gun shy after my initial Neo troubles. 

[Streetwise]

I love shrimp. Vermont has a lot of limestone, so I have focused on neocaridina, but I really want to try more. Perhaps cardinal will be my next attempt.

[Dwayne Brown]

@Patrick_G I hope you dont mind me asking but what kind of troubles? Like massive die offs? Or something like population instability from time to time?

[Patrick_G]

On 10/14/2021 at 4:40 PM, Dwayne Brown said:

@Patrick_G I hope you dont mind me asking but what kind of troubles? Like massive die offs? Or something like population instability from time to time?

They would just slowly die over time. I think my main missteps were putting them in tanks that weren’t seasoned enough not taking steps to raise my buffer. I didn’t really understand how fast a neutral ph can drop with a very low KH. 

[JettsPapa]

It sounds like you've already figured this out, but generally caridinas do better in softer water and lower pH than neos.  Neocaridinas do well for me in my 8.2 pH water with KH and GH almost off the charts.  If I ever get brave enough to try caridinas (and I hope to some day) I'll definitely be using RO water and re-mineralizing it to the proper levels.

Edited October 15, 2021 by JettsPapa

[Dwayne Brown]

@JettsPapa @Scapexghost @Streetwise @Patrick_G

I ran out of test strips and will be buying some later but for the time being, I was able to find my cities water quality report. 

hardness is 9.4 ppm - 15.3ppm with an average of 12.4ppm  (very soft)

Nitrate 0  (good)

copper 0.141 ppm (unsure if this is bad or good)

ph 7.6 - 9.1 average is 8.0  (high)

Calcium Hardness 7.8ppm - 13.2ppm average 9.8ppm  

I know this is not an ideal way to find out your water quality but based off of these numbers what do you think? It seems that the caridina would better in this sort of environment but i'm curious at to what you think? 

[Patrick_G]

My gut says Neos with crushed coral substrate, but I’m really not a very successful shrimp keeper. The Facebook page called USA freshwater shrimp and plants is a good resource. It’s friendly and mostly troll free. 

[JettsPapa]

I agree with @Patrick_G.  As I said above, I haven't kept caridinas, but I think that pH is probably too high for them.  I'd go with neos, and add minerals to get the GH and  KH up where it needs to be for them.

[GameCzar]

I really didn't have luck with Caradinas, we still have one out of the six that somehow still thriving lol

In retrospect I should have gotten Neos with my water, so if we try again we'll go that way.

 

[Dwayne Brown]

@JettsPapa @Scapexghost @Streetwise @Patrick_G@GameCzar 

Thanks for all the helpful advice, I think i'm going to go for neocaradinia shrimp that are soft water hardy and/or locally bred. It shouldn't be to hard since they are very popular out here and I have already found several places including the aquarium coop. That carry all different kinds regularly. Now I have to finish setting up the tank and decide on a color!

As a kind of side question this is going to be my first "aquascape" aquarium, and I have some large 9+ inch pieces of black obsidian that I was going to use in the tank. But I can't find any information as to whether the obsidian will change the water chemistry or not. I'm assuming it won't since it is technically glass, but I would like to hear from some of you guys before I do anything. 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Dwayne Brown