Goldfish Quality in US v. Asia

[PineSong]

So I was just rewatching Cory's  vid featuring photos from his Honk Kong fish market trip.

I have many travel destinations on my bucket list but had never considered Hong Kong until I saw that video! I would just love to wander through there for a day.

Anyway, in the vid Cory says the quality of goldfish there was outstanding, and some folks in the livestream feed echoed that they've seen higher quality goldfish in China than here.

I kept goldfish for many years which probably cost @ $1.69 at a box store when purchased in 2003, so I know nothing about what counts as "quality" in goldfish or what could be missing from our US versions. 

Anyone who is in the know want to share--what are the traits being judged as better or worse?

 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by PineSong
Included video link for those who haven't seen it.

[Fish Folk]

On 10/8/2021 at 6:18 PM, PineSong said:

So I was just rewatching Cory's  vid featuring photos from his Honk Kong fish market trip.

I have many travel destinations on my bucket list but had never considered Hong Kong until I saw that video! I would just love to wander through there for a day.

Anyway, in the vid Cory says the quality of goldfish there was outstanding, and some folks in the livestream feed echoed that they've seen higher quality goldfish in China than here.

I kept goldfish for many years which probably cost @ $1.69 at a box store when purchased in 2003, so I know nothing about what counts as "quality" in goldfish or what could be missing from our US versions. 

Anyone who is in the know want to share--what are the traits being judged as better or worse?

 

 

Here are the UK standards.

Here are the USA standards. 

[Kilrkitty08]

So since there are written standards does that mean they have competitions like they do for Bettas but with Goldfish?

[gardenman]

Part of the quality issue comes down to volume. There are vastly more goldfish keepers in Asia than the US. That makes it a better market for goldfish breeders. A show quality goldfish overseas can have dozens of buyers lining up to buy it at $10,000 or more. A poll on a goldfish forum had three members who'd spent over $10,000 on a single fish. In the US people expect goldfish to be inexpensive. Even the fancy orandas or decent quality goldfish tend not to sell for more than $100 locally. There isn't the same market here as overseas. If you're a breeder, do you take your best stock and sell it where the market is hot or where the market barely exists? If you have a fairly good quality Oranda here and it won't sell at $100, but you'd have people lining up to pay $1,000 for it in China, you sell it in China.

That's pretty much true across the whole fishkeeping hobby. Asian arowanas (banned in the US) have sold for as much as $400,000 in Asia. A koi sold for $1.8 million in Japan. (And reportedly died a few months later. Yikes!) Stingrays tend to sell for more overseas than in America. There are just more buyers with more money and willing to spend the money on fish, so the best fish go to Asia. Can you imagine a Petsmart offering a goldfish for $10,000? No. they'd never do that. Most Mom and Pop shops can't afford to do that either. Some dealers (Dandy Orandas being one) have tried to import the higher end, higher quality fish, but getting the sales has proven challenging for them. There are some people in the US who will pay big bucks for the right fish, but by and large they're more into reef tanks than goldfish. 

[Helan]

On 10/9/2021 at 8:20 AM, Kilrkitty08 said:

So since there are written standards does that mean they have competitions like they do for Bettas but with Goldfish?

Almost all fish have competitions nowadays 

[Fonske]

I'm no goldfish expert... I  live in China though and my very superficial observations are a) goldfish are popular; b) they look good -- short bodies, perky fins, long tails, very shiny, supersaturated colors;  c) those sold in pet shops are not expensive.

The most expensive ones I saw were ~8" orandas/telescopes/other fancies for ~230$. (again, I'm not into high-end goldfish, this is what one can get from a local pet market).

My 6" oranda (below) was ~20$, the smaller ones ~5$-7$.

 

[PineSong]

On 10/8/2021 at 9:13 PM, gardenman said:

Part of the quality issue comes down to volume. There are vastly more goldfish keepers in Asia than the US. That makes it a better market for goldfish breeders. A show quality goldfish overseas can have dozens of buyers lining up to buy it at $10,000 or more. A poll on a goldfish forum had three members who'd spent over $10,000 on a single fish. In the US people expect goldfish to be inexpensive. Even the fancy orandas or decent quality goldfish tend not to sell for more than $100 locally. There isn't the same market here as overseas. If you're a breeder, do you take your best stock and sell it where the market is hot or where the market barely exists? If you have a fairly good quality Oranda here and it won't sell at $100, but you'd have people lining up to pay $1,000 for it in China, you sell it in China.

That's pretty much true across the whole fishkeeping hobby. Asian arowanas (banned in the US) have sold for as much as $400,000 in Asia. A koi sold for $1.8 million in Japan. (And reportedly died a few months later. Yikes!) Stingrays tend to sell for more overseas than in America. There are just more buyers with more money and willing to spend the money on fish, so the best fish go to Asia. Can you imagine a Petsmart offering a goldfish for $10,000? No. they'd never do that. Most Mom and Pop shops can't afford to do that either. Some dealers (Dandy Orandas being one) have tried to import the higher end, higher quality fish, but getting the sales has proven challenging for them. There are some people in the US who will pay big bucks for the right fish, but by and large they're more into reef tanks than goldfish. 

So, if I'm understanding this, the majority of breeders of goldfish are in Asia, and since Asian shoppers are more willing to pay for typy goldfish, the breeders send their best fish to Asian markets and send the US the more run of the mill fish.  That makes sense.

I did read about Asian arowana prices in a book I was reading recently (The Dragon Behind the Glass). It is kind of dazzling that folks will pay those prices for a fish, not because fish are 'worth' less than other high price animals, but because to me fish always seem like something that could die at any time for unknown reasons, whereas with dogs, horses, etc. we have more chance of recognizing and successfully treating illness. Then again, I guess if you have an actual bejillion dollars, losing 400K is not such a big hit, so the purchasers of the 400K arowana are basically taking the same risk as me with my $25 guppies, proportionally. 

 

[Helan]

On 10/9/2021 at 1:09 PM, PineSong said:

So, if I'm understanding this, the majority of breeders of goldfish are in Asia, and since Asian shoppers are more willing to pay for typy goldfish, the breeders send their best fish to Asian markets and send the US the more run of the mill fish.  That makes sense.

I did read about Asian arowana prices in a book I was reading recently (The Dragon Behind the Glass). It is kind of dazzling that folks will pay those prices for a fish, not because fish are 'worth' less than other high price animals, but because to me fish always seem like something that could die at any time for unknown reasons, whereas with dogs, horses, etc. we have more chance of recognizing and successfully treating illness. Then again, I guess if you have an actual bejillion dollars, losing 400K is not such a big hit, so the purchasers of the 400K arowana are basically taking the same risk as me with my $25 guppies, proportionally. 

 

Yes, because in Asian culture , gold symbolises wealth and luck, so if you have a goldfish you would be blessed with such thing

[Patrick_G]

On 10/8/2021 at 7:30 PM, Fonske said:

My 6" oranda (below) was ~20$, the smaller ones ~5$-7$.

Nice looking Oranda! That less than I’d expect to pay for a 6” Oranda in my area. 

 

[Fonske]

On 10/9/2021 at 2:21 PM, Patrick_G said:

Nice looking Oranda! That less than I’d expect to pay for a 6” Oranda in my area

Thanks! It did look nice with the fancy black trimmings, but later changed to gold and white.

Prices also vary a lot depending on type of the goldfish, e.g. I've seen handsome 8" (body-only) commons for ~1.5$ (not on sale, regular price).