sulawesi Sulawesi Cardinal Shrimp in planted tank

[NanoNano]

I've been doing a lot of investigation into Sulawesi Cardinal Shrimp of late and seeing a lot of the same things that I saw about Sulawesi Rabbit Snails a few years back- they need 8.0-8.5PH  water,  they need a special blend of minerals, they need an environment that mimics the lake they came from, they eat plants, etc.  As people captive bred Rabbit snails, they were able to acclimate them to plain tap water and densely planted tanks.  I'm seeing Sulawesi Cardinal Shrimp sellers claiming that they've done the similar things (there's as WA state seller that claims their stock has been bred in 7.0-7.2PH water),  but all of the YouTube and online picture content points to people still all following "old school mimic the lake they were discovered in" methods.  Has anyone here tried keeping these shrimp in a more typical aquarium configuration?

[ARMYVET]

I would contact Flip Aquatics and ask them....they are like the shrimp GURU's 

Send an email and share the response...I would love to know the answer to that as I am sure others would as well.

[Cory]

I know the breeder of Cardinal shrimp in Washington. I haven't tried his captive bred ones yet. When Dean and I both tried Wild cardinals, they were very difficult and did require those water parameters.

[laritheloud]

I'm really interested in trying cardinal shrimp out, since my water is harder and alkaline. A future project, maybe...

[NanoNano]

On 7/3/2021 at 10:07 AM, Cory said:

When Dean and I both tried Wild cardinals, they were very difficult and did require those water parameters.

Insert sound of Pac-Man dying here. I appreciate the guidance and frankness @Cory.  Time to do a ton more research and soliciting expertise before the credit card gets thrown down.  Since there's interest,  I'll keep updating this thread with key things as I learn them (until someone tells me to quit it out).

Edited July 4, 2021 by NanoNano
Forgot to add "expertise"..so I was "soliciting experts" which breaks rules if not laws :)

[laritheloud]

Question, my water is 8.0 to 8.2 ph, 10-12 dGH and 10-12 dKH... on paper this seems to be ideal for Cardinal Shrimp, right? Are there other minerals I would need to be aware of? I actually see these guys at my LFS pretty often, and it'd probably make most sense for me to pick them up there for my 10 gallon.

Guess it's time I tried some more thorough research.

[NanoNano]

There's a person that I've bought difficult to raise and keep Ericulons from that have been *beautiful*, so I trust their water choices.  They have Sulawesi shrimp listed as being raised in these conditions- Ph:8.0 GH7-9 KH 3-4 and TDS 200-250.   Looks like the same ball park...maybe even the same level and section.

I see people recommending using RO water and then remineralizing it,  but the process of remineralizing to 8.0-8.5 seems time consuming and intensive. I can't see any of my LFS going through the drama,  so I'd guess this is another indication that your/your LFS's water is close enough- maybe just needs a slight "tweak" of mineralization.   I'd ask the store if they're wild bred or tank bred- many people indicate that the wild ones are more territorial and not as robust.  One of the consistent experiences that I see is people stating their Sulawesi don't recognize commercial foods as "food" (they're live algae eaters in nature). Many people recommend keeping a species of Neocardina in with them to teach them to eat pellets/wafers/etc.

Good luck!

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by NanoNano

[Randall from Texas]

On 7/3/2021 at 8:21 PM, NanoNano said:

There's a person that I've bought difficult to raise and keep Ericulons from that have been *beautiful*, so I trust their water choices.  They have Sulawesi shrimp listed as being raised in these conditions- Ph:8.0 GH7-9 KH 3-4 and TDS 200-250.   Looks like the same ball park...maybe even the same level and section.

I see people recommending using RO water and then remineralizing it,  but the process of remineralizing to 8.0-8.5 seems time consuming and intensive. I can't see any of my LFS going through the drama,  so I'd guess this is another indication that your/your LFS's water is close enough- maybe just needs a slight "tweak" of mineralization.   I'd ask the store if they're wild bred or tank bred- many people indicate that the wild ones are more territorial and not as robust.  One of the consistent experiences that I see is people stating their Sulawesi don't recognize commercial foods as "food" (they're live algae eaters in nature). Many people recommend keeping a species of Neocardina in with them to teach them to eat pellets/wafers/etc.

Good luck!

 

My water sounds perfect then, I didn't know I needed these shrimp.

[NanoNano]

You'll probably need to consult with your financial advisor...they ain't cheap for freshwater fish.

[aquachris]

I've been thinking on these myself too. I have the higher hardness and pH and all that fun stuff.  This post is doubling it down lol. 

[NanoNano]

Great to see so much interest in these shrimp.  They have an extremely limited natural habitat so,  captive keeping/breeding is probably a good insurance policy for the species.  One of the things that I've noticed is all of my video watching and reading is that I can't recall ever seeing them with fish- either in their wild habitat or in any of the aquariums.  Not sure of that's because of the water parameters not being very "fish friendly" or if they're so darn expensive that people don't want to risk having them eaten...probably both.  Regardless,  the cardinals are pretty high energy and white on the parts that move a lot (antennae and legs) so they look like they'd attract a lot of attention from anything remotely predatory,

[NanoNano]

Quick update to this thread.  I went ahead and ordered an initial group of 6 Sulawesi (homebred) shrimp back in early July and introduced them in one of my well established, heavily planted tanks.  The shrimp did well initially and seemed to be thriving...and then they started slowly dying off one by one.  The three major learnings I think I got from the experience are:

* They homebred are a lot more hearty and resilient than a lot of the material on the  internet would suggest.  Mine easily acclimated to 78 degree water with a PH of 7.3 ish and a really low TDS level.  Mine also were far from picky eaters- readily grabbing and feeding off of shrimp pellets.

* They tend to hang out and feed as a pack in the same square inch or two of tank space.  If one shrimp is consistently away from the rest of the group for a day or more  it's usually a sign that shrimp is soon headed to shrimp heaven. 

* They have a *much* lower tolerance for differences in PH between the water column and tank objects than any other aquatic critter I've had experience with.  Active substrate is an absolute no-no with these shrimp.  Even when fairly depleted, something like Fluval Stratum still contains/captures enough of something that a couple of my shrimp suddenly fell over "stunned" and paralyzed as they moved about on the substrate (I had a colony of Blue Dream neos in the same tank and none of them from the tiniest new born baby on up ever had a similar issue with the substrate).

Undeterred (and with some money from a new job), I decided to take another crack at keeping them and ordered 10 from a seller in Brooklyn (the one I mention that I bought plants from in an earlier post). This time I bought a new tank and scaped it with Hawaiian red lava rock and an inert sand substrate.  Same water parameters as before,  but with a water temperature at 82 degrees F (happy fluke from a Fluval preset heater that came calibrated a couple of degrees higher than spec). All 10 survived shipping but three died in the first week.  I'm now on week 4 with 7 shrimp still alive and growing.  Crossing my fingers that in another month or two we'll see some babies.