disease Ongoing fish & tank issues

[KaitieG]

Good question--No, I wouldn't.  You don't want charcoal in when you treat with meds because it pulls the meds out of the water.  Prime isn't a medication--it's a water conditioner.  So, it will dechlorinate your water and it will bind ammonia and nitrite to make them non-toxic for your fish for a period of time.  The dechlorinating part is one-and-done (once any chlorine is treated, it doesn't come back). 

The ammonia and nitrite are bound up for about 24 hours, then they're re-released into the water as the Prime wears off, so you have to re-dose.  One good way to do this might be to do every-other day water changes.  For example:

Day 1: 50% water change, treat new water with Prime (dose according to the volume of water in your WHOLE tank, not just the "new" water). 

Day 2: No water change, dose with Prime

Day 3: 50% water change, treat new water with prime as on day 1

Day 4: No water change, dose with Prime.

If there's an additional day where you can't do a water change (time, schedule, whatever) dose with Prime.  You can stop dosing Prime when your tank is cycled (unless you have chlorine/chloramine in your water and then you'll want to use it to dechlorinate before water changes).

[HonourWest]

On 6/14/2021 at 12:46 PM, KaitieG said:

Good question--No, I wouldn't.  You don't want charcoal in when you treat with meds because it pulls the meds out of the water.  Prime isn't a medication--it's a water conditioner.  So, it will dechlorinate your water and it will bind ammonia and nitrite to make them non-toxic for your fish for a period of time.  The dechlorinating part is one-and-done (once any chlorine is treated, it doesn't come back). 

The ammonia and nitrite are bound up for about 24 hours, then they're re-released into the water as the Prime wears off, so you have to re-dose.  One good way to do this might be to do every-other day water changes.  For example:

Day 1: 50% water change, treat new water with Prime (dose according to the volume of water in your WHOLE tank, not just the "new" water). 

Day 2: No water change, dose with Prime

Day 3: 50% water change, treat new water with prime as on day 1

Day 4: No water change, dose with Prime.

If there's an additional day where you can't do a water change (time, schedule, whatever) dose with Prime.  You can stop dosing Prime when your tank is cycled (unless you have chlorine/chloramine in your water and then you'll want to use it to dechlorinate before water changes).

I've added the prime now. I'm really concerned about the cory though- his tail looks terrible- like it's being eaten away. The water already had the anti-bacterial medication I added for the betta- do you think I should try the anti-fungal or leave it?

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Hi. Keep the filter out if you're going to medicate still as it is supposed to remove the meds. The Prime should be safe to use with meds as long as there is no copper in the medication. Seachem said it could interact badly for the fish if it does. I think the med you picked up is tetracycline and I don't see any reason why it would have copper but check the bottle for mention of it. If it does not absolutely YES use the Prime every 24hrs to make sure it continues neutralizing the bad stuff. If you have to or want to do small water (or up to 50% as @KaitieG said)changes before redosing that and the meds I really don't see why you couldn't. It has worked for me when my tank had Ich. You may still end up with losses but keep going. @KaitieG is right, nevermind about the pH 7.8 is on the higher end of things but it's absolutely NOT a bad pH. The fish will get used to that if it stays there- she is absolutely right. It's ther nitrogen cycle we're concerned about right now. You can do this. 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[HonourWest]

On 6/14/2021 at 1:52 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Hi. Keep the filter out if you're going to medicate still as it is supposed to remove the meds. The Prime should be safe to use with meds as long as there is no copper in the medication. Seachem said it could interact badly for the fish if it does. I think the med you picked up is tetracycline and I don't see any reason why it would have copper but check the bottle for mention of it. If it does not absolutely YES use the Prime every 24hrs to make sure it continues neutralizing the bad stuff. If you have to or want to do small water changes before redosing that and the meds I really don't see why you couldn't. It has worked for me when my tank had Ich. You may still end up with losses but keep going. @KaitieG is right, nevermind about the pH 7.8 is on the higher end of things but it's absolutely NOT a bad pH. The fish will get used to that if it stays there- she is absolutely right. It's ther nitrogen cycle we're concerned about right now. You can do this.

I really appreciate everyone's input here- thankyou!

It was tetracycline hydrochlorine. I see no mention of copper on the bottle.

So you think the tetracycline tablets are the right medication for whatever the cory has? 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

As to antifungal meds, I don't think that's the illness concern. I think the antibacterial will help that. Others may have some ideas but that's where I'd stand. Columnaris is bacterial infection (what your betta had) so I'm thinking you should just focus on clean water, Prime and anti-bacterial. So the care steps @KaitieG laid out if you would like to go that route, do that and dose meds and Prime after your water changes. 

When I had Ich in my tank, I did smaller 20% water changes EVERY day and dosed Prime and meds.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Just remember Prime is a great emergency tool, but don't forget it loses its power so you must remember to redose every day during this time. Later when you're over this hump, and you will get there if you are determined, it can just be a tool like everything else ( say as a water conditioner).

[KaitieG]

On 6/13/2021 at 11:02 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

 

When I had Ich in my tank, I did smaller 20% water changes EVERY day and dosed Prime and meds.

This is another good option for a schedule--pick what works for you 🙂  The big idea is that you want to keep water quality as high as possible as your tank cycles--and Prime plus frequent partial water changes is a good way to do that.

[HonourWest]

Quick update on the tank. I added the Seachem Prime yesterday and now the water has a yellowish tint (which I'm hoping is a good thing.)

 

My cory really isn't doing well. I'm afraid I'll probably lose him. 

He is just sitting there at the bottom of the tank. I feel quite sorry for him as whatever is going on looks very sore. 😔

I am going to do a daily dose of Prime and a 20% water change every second day (as this seems to be the general consensus)

I understand that I'm to dose with Prime according to the tank volume rather than the amount of water I replace.  I'm unsure about the medication though- do I do the medication every second day as well? And, as with the Prime, should I dose for the full tank every time?

[HonourWest]

The cory has just died. Oh well- at least he is not suffering any longer. 😔 I just wish I could've learned what was wrong with him so I'd know better how to treat if/when that disease happens again.

The tetras still look fine.

Since both the sick fish are now gone, I've re-added the filter medium and done a 25% water change with the Seachem Prime. I plan to redose with Prime every day, and do the water change every 2nd day. At present I'm not going to worry about adding the medication (unless the tetras start to look sick, but they seem completely unaffected)

Do you think I should add the Seachem stability too?

Also, if you think I've been precipitous with what I've done please let me know that too. (I'm not afraid to hear I've made a mistake- just afraid not to find out about the mistake too late!)

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by HonourWest
making current

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Hi. I'm very sorry you lost your Corycat too, we did know that could be a possibility- I too am glad they are not suffering but I'm sorry it happened- your bottom feeders and long finned friends usually catch wind of illness first in aquariums.

Ok. So, tetras are pretty tough. If you don't think they look at all sick and are acting "normal" (say the same from the day you got them and/or saw them at the store) and if I were you- I'd go ahead stop medicating, since you already put the filter back. I'd do a 50% water change (treating the new water with Prime as a water conditioner). THEN INSTEAD of using Prime every day, I'd go with the Seachem Stability every day, for 7 days as the instructions advise, MONITOR water quality (I hope you have an ammonia and nitrite test now those are the toxic ones to fish- being paranoid I'd probably test every day but you could get away with less maybe), AND what's left of your inhabitant behavior and physical looks (any sign of illness may need to be treated) -changing water ONLY when either of those have anything much beyond 0). You can leave the water as long as it's testing clean- if it doesn't I'd do a small water change if the reading say for ammonia is only .25 (maybe 20%, and then dose the Stability after). After the 7 days I'd probably STILL dose with Prime every day still keeping a close eye on inhabitants until you are sure you have a cycled tank. 

When you look at your fish, look for any signs of fin damage or tiny white spots, look at their eyes make sure they're clear, look at their scales and make sure there is no redness or white spots anywhere, if you can see gills make sure they're not super red and inflamed. Watch for "flashing" (swimming irratically- you can youtube this) or rubbing on decor, make sure they're not constantly at the top of the water gulping air. 

Like I said, tetras are some of the tough fish so hopefully they can get you through this fish-in cycle. Don't even think about adding more fish until your numbers are consistently stable. THEN make sure you get a container you can safely quarantine any new fish BEFORE you add them into this tank (this tank has seen enough casualties, you don't want to go through this again, trust me). Then after at least a couple weeks (I'd do at least a month) of observation THEN add the new inhabitants into the tank and every time I've done that in MY tanks I do another round of Seachem Stability. 🙂 

Edited June 15, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
to clarify

[HonourWest]

On 6/15/2021 at 3:18 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Hi. I'm very sorry you lost your Corycat too, we did know that could be a possibility- I too am glad they are not suffering but I'm sorry it happened- your bottom feeders and long finned friends usually catch wind of illness first in aquariums.

Ok. So, tetras are pretty tough. If you don't think they look at all sick and are acting "normal" (say the same from the day you got them and/or saw them at the store) and if I were you- I'd go ahead stop medicating, since you already put the filter back. I'd do a 50% water change (treating the new water with Prime as a water conditioner). THEN INSTEAD of using Prime every day, I'd go with the Seachem Stability every day, for 7 days as the instructions advise, MONITOR water quality (I hope you have an ammonia and nitrite test now those are the toxic ones to fish- being paranoid I'd probably test every day but you could get away with less maybe), AND what's left of your inhabitant behavior and physical looks (any sign of illness may need to be treated) -changing water ONLY when either of those have anything much beyond 0). You can leave the water as long as it's testing clean- if it doesn't I'd do a small water change if the reading say for ammonia is only .25 (maybe 20%, and then dose the Stability after). After the 7 days I'd probably STILL dose with Prime every day still keeping a close eye on inhabitants until you are sure you have a cycled tank. 

When you look at your fish, look for any signs of fin damage or tiny white spots, look at their eyes make sure they're clear, look at their scales and make sure there is no redness or white spots anywhere, if you can see gills make sure they're not super red and inflamed. Watch for "flashing" (swimming irratically- you can youtube this) or rubbing on decor, make sure they're not constantly at the top of the water gulping air. 

Like I said, tetras are some of the tough fish so hopefully they can get you through this fish-in cycle. Don't even think about adding more fish until your numbers are consistently stable. THEN make sure you get a container you can safely quarantine any new fish BEFORE you add them into this tank (this tank has seen enough casualties, you don't want to go through this again, trust me). Then after at least a couple weeks (I'd do at least a month) of observation THEN add the new inhabitants into the tank and every time I've done that in MY tanks I do another round of Seachem Stability. 🙂 

I'm hoping to pick up the complete test kit tomorrow (this one). I was thinking of just getting a plastic tub or using a bucket for a quarantine tank- wouldn't I need to get another filter for it though?

I feel bad about the orange tetra not having any friends - that's about the only concern I have for waiting on getting fish. (I understand the importance of the tank cycling- especially after all this- and I definitely don't want any more disasters!)

One good bit of news- (I hope!) I think there is an algae bloom in the tank that started just after adding Seachem Prime. There is just a touch of fine cobweb-like stuff showing up.

I will be glad if it is algae. It didn't seem natural to have the tank for over 3 weeks without any showing at all.

If I can I'll grab some shots of it tomorrow- not too sure how any photos will turn out though.

My plants are also showing a lot more colour. 🙂

Edited June 16, 2021 by HonourWest
correcting spelling

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

The API master test kit is, I bet, what the majority of us use (I do!) so yes good choice. It lasts a long time and yes I'm sure it's pricey for you but it's worth it in the end. Get a clear plastic tub if you can, a lot of people use storage tubs. Keep the lid, you can always cut holes in it to string airlines into. Yes if you can get a basic sponge filter or even just an airstone (or both). You will need at least 1 of the 2, water agitation I find is a must in hospital tanks. If you already have an air pump for your other tank you can (if you have room) put them next to each other and splice an airline with a restrictor (so you can turn up/down to off the air for the hospital tub) that way you don't have to buy a dedicated air pump for now since it sounds like budget needs to be respected. We've never really discussed what you are using for a filter but you've mentioned a charcoal filter so I'm not sure if you have an air pump for air stones or anything so you could always buy a small clip on air pump or similar I use this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009YJ4N6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_0H8XZQSCVVDY28JE2509  it's a great, inexpensive, basic and quiet air pump.

Sponge filters shouldn't cost you that much either. But in a hospital tank you can also just use an airstone, if that's all you can afford for now. 

Start up cost for the aquarium hobby to do things properly are a bit steep, but once you're established (unless you get MTS, known as multiple tank syndrome) your costs start to go down to tolerable. 

Now as to the cobweb stuff, I'm hoping that's hair algae (brown or green) and not some sort of fungus(typically white) so it will be good to see a pic. Usually, new tank keepers see a bloom of diatom algae which is a covering of a brownish powder like (when you clean the glass that's what it looks like- powder) algae that some bottom feeders like. I hope that's why you have a yellow tinge to your water, meaning diatom is growing on your glass because Prime and Stability don't color water (it could also be your wood adding tanins to the water which is GOOD). Hair algae is a good sign if that's what it is but you don't want that stuff to get ouf of control, typically it'll grow on your plants and enough so it will start to suffocate the leaves- so you can gently, manually remove it before it gets there with a (new) toothbrush. We don't want your plants to lose their progress! 🙂 

So this is where the Nerite snails I mentioned in your other thread come in handy. You see, you have a small tank. Bioload is a concern. I have a 3 gallon with four plants and some floaters -I will only ever have a Betta and some bladder snails in (maybe a small horned nerite if she keeps eating the little snails). This tank is perfectly balanced in fact it probably has LESS bioload than it can stand however I don't want to have to do frequent water changes and I want my betta to be absolutely comfortable. You have 3.5 extra gallons in your tank however you have (sorry if I'm not remembering exactly) about 4 tetras left? 3 of one kind and 1 of the orange. Am I right? Honestly in order to avoid overloading the tank, I'd probably only get 2 orange tetras for your hospital tank. That way you have 6 total. Yes they would have been better in a larger group or 6 of just one species but I think that's about all your tank can handle FOR NOW until and unless you have some major plant growth (nature's filter). I'd let those settle in and see how that does bioload-wise until I'd consider replacing a betta OR instead of having a betta you could maybe add another few tetras and just have a tetra/snail tank- NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. That's up to you and up to your tank. Back the the nerite. What kind of snail do you already have? I'm guessing it might be a mystery? (make sure you're feeding them too, fresh blanched veg is a cheap way to do it) If it's a mystery they aren't the greatest algae eaters I'VE found AND they're high on the bio-load spectrum- they're just pretty- to me. Nerites however are a different story. They are smaller and have a smaller bio-load PLUS they come in handiy.... If we can confirm you are getting algae you could probably add 1 or 2 without quarantining them. As long as wherever you get them from, you don't see a bunch of dead fish in the tank- but generally nerites and fish don't get the same illnesses and should be safe. This offers a few benefits: they can eat your algae (they eat film algae, soft green and brown algae and brown diatom- I've also found they eat hair algae- they also benefit from the veg thing like the mystery), you can add something living to your tank that will add interest for YOU, and really they are more fun to watch than you think. Personally I think you SHOULDN'T try to get ANY bottom feeder fish, and the cory you had- well they're NOT algae eaters- they really just eat left over fish food and whatever other bonus food you give them. Technically, they also need to be kept in groups of at least 6 too- your tank is too small for that. 

This all make sense?

[HonourWest]

On 6/16/2021 at 2:14 AM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

The API master test kit is, I bet, what the majority of us use (I do!) so yes good choice. It lasts a long time and yes I'm sure it's pricey for you but it's worth it in the end. Get a clear plastic tub if you can, a lot of people use storage tubs. Keep the lid, you can always cut holes in it to string airlines into. Yes if you can get a basic sponge filter or even just an airstone (or both). You will need at least 1 of the 2, water agitation I find is a must in hospital tanks. If you already have an air pump for your other tank you can (if you have room) put them next to each other and splice an airline with a restrictor (so you can turn up/down to off the air for the hospital tub) that way you don't have to buy a dedicated air pump for now since it sounds like budget needs to be respected. We've never really discussed what you are using for a filter but you've mentioned a charcoal filter so I'm not sure if you have an air pump for air stones or anything so you could always buy a small clip on air pump or similar I use this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009YJ4N6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_0H8XZQSCVVDY28JE2509  it's a great, inexpensive, basic and quiet air pump.

Sponge filters shouldn't cost you that much either. But in a hospital tank you can also just use an airstone, if that's all you can afford for now. 

Start up cost for the aquarium hobby to do things properly are a bit steep, but once you're established (unless you get MTS, known as multiple tank syndrome) your costs start to go down to tolerable. 

Now as to the cobweb stuff, I'm hoping that's hair algae (brown or green) and not some sort of fungus(typically white) so it will be good to see a pic. Usually, new tank keepers see a bloom of diatom algae which is a covering of a brownish powder like (when you clean the glass that's what it looks like- powder) algae that some bottom feeders like. I hope that's why you have a yellow tinge to your water, meaning diatom is growing on your glass because Prime and Stability don't color water (it could also be your wood adding tanins to the water which is GOOD). Hair algae is a good sign if that's what it is but you don't want that stuff to get ouf of control, typically it'll grow on your plants and enough so it will start to suffocate the leaves- so you can gently, manually remove it before it gets there with a (new) toothbrush. We don't want your plants to lose their progress! 🙂 

So this is where the Nerite snails I mentioned in your other thread come in handy. You see, you have a small tank. Bioload is a concern. I have a 3 gallon with four plants and some floaters -I will only ever have a Betta and some bladder snails in (maybe a small horned nerite if she keeps eating the little snails). This tank is perfectly balanced in fact it probably has LESS bioload than it can stand however I don't want to have to do frequent water changes and I want my betta to be absolutely comfortable. You have 3.5 extra gallons in your tank however you have (sorry if I'm not remembering exactly) about 4 tetras left? 3 of one kind and 1 of the orange. Am I right? Honestly in order to avoid overloading the tank, I'd probably only get 2 orange tetras for your hospital tank. That way you have 6 total. Yes they would have been better in a larger group or 6 of just one species but I think that's about all your tank can handle FOR NOW until and unless you have some major plant growth (nature's filter). I'd let those settle in and see how that does bioload-wise until I'd consider replacing a betta OR instead of having a betta you could maybe add another few tetras and just have a tetra/snail tank- NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. That's up to you and up to your tank. Back the the nerite. What kind of snail do you already have? I'm guessing it might be a mystery? (make sure you're feeding them too, fresh blanched veg is a cheap way to do it) If it's a mystery they aren't the greatest algae eaters I'VE found AND they're high on the bio-load spectrum- they're just pretty- to me. Nerites however are a different story. They are smaller and have a smaller bio-load PLUS they come in handiy.... If we can confirm you are getting algae you could probably add 1 or 2 without quarantining them. As long as wherever you get them from, you don't see a bunch of dead fish in the tank- but generally nerites and fish don't get the same illnesses and should be safe. This offers a few benefits: they can eat your algae (they eat film algae, soft green and brown algae and brown diatom- I've also found they eat hair algae- they also benefit from the veg thing like the mystery), you can add something living to your tank that will add interest for YOU, and really they are more fun to watch than you think. Personally I think you SHOULDN'T try to get ANY bottom feeder fish, and the cory you had- well they're NOT algae eaters- they really just eat left over fish food and whatever other bonus food you give them. Technically, they also need to be kept in groups of at least 6 too- your tank is too small for that. 

This all make sense?

Here are some photos. I really hope it isn't fungi. It does look white. 😬

I'm afraid it's not all that easy to see in some shots. There's only a tiny amount. (Could also just be plant fibres?)

 

Here is a couple of photos of 'Hot Rod', the snail. My guess is that he is a mystery snail. He gets an algae pellet daily.

 

Getting two orange tetras as mates for the lonely one seems like the right idea to me. As you suggest, I'll stick with those (and maybe a nerite snail) until the bioload settles. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by HonourWest
being a perfectionist

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Yep, looks like a healthy Mystery there. They are sort of good at algae just not AS good as Nerites IMO. Mystery snails are just fun to have. 

Hmm. I don't think what I see is bad so far, if it develops further post pics. Carry on!

[HonourWest]

So I did my first proper test! Yay! 😄

I'm not sure if the ammonia is 0 or .25. The light here shows a very slight greenish tinge, but in full bright light it looks more on the yellow side.

Here is my nitrite test. A very definite 0

I did also test nitrate but forgot to take a photo before rinsing out the tube. 😒 (Annoying). It also came out at a definite 0 ppm though.

I did do a quick ph test. Came out well in the neutral range. Didn't touch the High Range PH one though as based on my rookie understanding of the test this doesn't apply unless the normal ph test is maxed out. (Please correct me if I'm wrong. Also, what if normal ph is neutral- does it even have any usefulness then?)

So... does this mean the tank is almost cycled? I really hope it does. 🙂

Edited June 16, 2021 by HonourWest
correcting/tweaking

[quikv6]

Given you have 0 nitrates and the presence of ammonia, no, unfortunately I believe it looks as if your tank is not cycled yet. It is possible to have 0 nitrates with a very heavily planted tank, but given you do show ammonia, I would say that's not the case. (Unless you didn't vigorously shake the Nitrate bottle #2....that is an absolute must.)

The goal would be to see 0 nitrates, 0, nitrites, and a reasonable presence of nitrates. Since this is your first test, you don't really have multiple tests to compare to, in order to see a progression/scale. Continue to test, document the results for reference, and keep up with smaller water changes/Prime. I'd say you are well on your way to success, and gaining knowledge and experience as you do it. Good luck!

 

[HonourWest]

On 6/16/2021 at 8:59 PM, quikv6 said:

Given you have 0 nitrates and the presence of ammonia, no, unfortunately I believe it looks as if your tank is not cycled yet. It is possible to have 0 nitrates with a very heavily planted tank, but given you do show ammonia, I would say that's not the case. (Unless you didn't vigorously shake the Nitrate bottle #2....that is an absolute must.)

The goal would be to see 0 nitrates, 0, nitrites, and a reasonable presence of nitrates. Since this is your first test, you don't really have multiple tests to compare to, in order to see a progression/scale. Continue to test, document the results for reference, and keep up with smaller water changes/Prime. I'd say you are well on your way to success, and gaining knowledge and experience as you do it. Good luck!

 

I thought it might have been a bit too easy... oh well.😏

[HonourWest]

My biggest black neon has turned into a bully. He keeps going after the other fish. I'm actually getting concerned for the littlest one who seems to be having the roughest time of it. He has been badly bitten on both sides of his body.

Any tips/suggestions please?

"In other news..." I have spotted a couple of new tank residents! 😀  Can someone please identify the type of snail this is?

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Ok soooo, I have 10 Black Neons. There WERE 14. I call Black Neons "Murder Fish" now because they picked off 4 of their own- no disease, no illness- just jerks. There was no other explanation for it. You can add more hiding places (caves, decor, plants) which help those who are bullied hide (but honestly I think they hunted the ones they wanted dead down- they did it at night- and I saw the intended victims hiding prior to darkness). Many other people seem to have an ok time with them- but I've met a few since that have had similar experiences.

If you want you can quarantine either the bullier or the bullied- the bullied you can keep an eye on to make sure they heal if you do that. You can call the fish store you got them from and ask if they'll take back the big Neon. Otherwise sadly they'll probablly keep fighting it out until likely the bullied isn't around anymore. 😔

This is my concern with Black Neons and longer finned fish. I WAS going to add a "center piece" fish to the tank with my 10 in it but since I've learned their behaviors I am not going to risk another fish. 

[laritheloud]

On 6/16/2021 at 7:30 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Ok soooo, I have 10 Black Neons. There WERE 14. I call Black Neons "Murder Fish" now because they picked off 4 of their own- no disease, no illness- just jerks. There was no other explanation for it. You can add more hiding places (caves, decor, plants) which help those who are bullied hide (but honestly I think they hunted the ones they wanted dead down- they did it at night- and I saw the intended victims hiding prior to darkness). Many other people seem to have an ok time with them- but I've met a few since that have had similar experiences.

If you want you can quarantine either the bullier or the bullied- the bullied you can keep an eye on to make sure they heal if you do that. You can call the fish store you got them from and ask if they'll take back the big Neon. Otherwise sadly they'll probablly keep fighting it out until likely the bullied isn't around anymore. 😔

This is my concern with Black Neons and longer finned fish. I WAS going to add a "center piece" fish to the tank with my 10 in it but since I've learned their behaviors I am not going to risk another fish. 

I truly think this behavior isn't unique to black neons. I think this is just tetra behavior, seen in varying degrees across all different varieties. I have diamond tetras in my 29 gallon, and they're beautiful, but they're absolute jerks -- only to each other and not to other fish, thank god. Usually the alpha male will get into an amorous breeding mood, and if another male *DARES* to get close to his breeding shrub, he will fight fight fight. It freaks me out, and I can't say I haven't considered rehoming the diamonds. Not a matter of not having enough in the school, they bred enough to fill out to 9 or 10. 😬

Absolutely beautiful and interesting fish, but I'm not sure I have the heart to try other tetras after these!

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I'm with you @laritheloud and to be even MORE honest, I think I would have rather picked another type of Rasbora (I have 10 Harlequins in another tank). The Neons are pretty but I love my Rasboras more. ...and they say parents don't pick favorites... 🙃

Edited June 16, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Well @HonourWest there you have it, at least we know that's "normal" tetra behavior. I have been told they are related to Pirahnas so it makes sense if they all do it. Doesn't make the situation better though does it? 

[laritheloud]

On 6/16/2021 at 7:45 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

I'm with you @laritheloud and to be even MORE honest, I think I would have rather picked another type of Rasbora (I have 10 Harlequins in another tank). The Neons are pretty but I love my Rasboras more. ...and they say parents don't pick favorites... 🙃

Yep, I, too, wish I chose rasboras. Live and learn! Now I know what I don't want in a fish!

[CosmicAshhole]

On 6/16/2021 at 4:36 PM, laritheloud said:

I truly think this behavior isn't unique to black neons. I think this is just tetra behavior, seen in varying degrees across all different varieties. I have diamond tetras in my 29 gallon, and they're beautiful, but they're absolute jerks -- only to each other and not to other fish, thank god. Usually the alpha male will get into an amorous breeding mood, and if another male *DARES* to get close to his breeding shrub, he will fight fight fight. It freaks me out, and I can't say I haven't considered rehoming the diamonds. Not a matter of not having enough in the school, they bred enough to fill out to 9 or 10. 😬

Absolutely beautiful and interesting fish, but I'm not sure I have the heart to try other tetras after these!

Well this is good to know about Tetras.  I had 10 Serpae and lost 2.  I thought it was from the quarantine but it could've been from the others being jerks. 

[laritheloud]

On 6/16/2021 at 8:38 PM, CosmicAshhole said:

Well this is good to know about Tetras.  I had 10 Serpae and lost 2.  I thought it was from the quarantine but it could've been from the others being jerks. 

2 of the 3 fully grown males in my tank have ripped fins from their scuffles. I've noticed they got a bit more intense after I cut back feeding them 2 light feedings per day to just one, so I'm trying to increase their feedings a bit more (just enough for them to devour in about 30 seconds each time). Maybe try feeding them two smaller meals per day and see if it helps?