Ongoing betta issues

[BCGirl]

Hi there I'm hoping someone can assist. I have three bettas and I've had constant issues with two. The two with issues are each in their own heated (78-80) 9G Fluval Flex. As they don't like agitation, I have sponges over the outflow. I change 2G of water weekly (roughly 22%). Despite having good filtration systems, the one tank constantly has low levels of ammonia (0.25 ppm). All other levels are good and I’ve tested my tap water.  I've added Seachem matrix, tried ammonia sponges and added different kinds of beneficial bacteria to no avail. The poor guy (Halfmoon named Ned Flounders) ends up with split pectoral fins and every few weeks goes on a tail biting bender.

My other betta Hereberto (veiltail) seems to fight fin rot (and also goes on the occasional tail biting bender). We've beat most of it, but he still has some on his pectoral fins. We can't get medications in Canada so I've tried varying degrees of aquarium salt. This worked on his other fin rot but not the pectoral. Parameters are normal.

 

They both have gravel in tanks with silk plants and lots of hiding spots. Hereberto also has two anubias.

Is there something I should be trying for both fish? Is the Fluval Flex not a great tank? Should I try a very low output air stone? I'm really trying to keep them in the best conditions possible but seem to be losing the battle.  The get a mixture of pellets, Fluval bug bites, daphnia and the occasional blood worm. Any ideas are appreciated. Thank you!

[Isaac M]

Hi @BCGirl, I am no betta expert so someone else here may be more helpful. The low levels of ammonia most likely mean that the aquarium is still cycling. How long have the tanks been set up? Do you know your nitrite and nitrate levels? 

There are many reasons for why they bite their tail, sometimes stress, sometimes they need a mirror to flare at to release aggression/ boredom. But I think someone else on the forum with more experience with this should answer this question. 

By the way, great betta names! Haha 

[BCGirl]

Thanks for the reply! I understand, bettas are a unique fish for sure. Nitrites are zero and Ned's nitrates tend to be at 5ppm when I do the weekly change. They've been set up since Nov/Dec but I did have to do a full clean in January so they restarted cycling then. Herb got moved to a smaller quarantine tank for his fin rot treatment but I tried to keep his main tank moving along with bacteria etc. while he was out. I know they hate water changes but I try to keep them as stress free as possible and only remove decor every 3rd or 4th week and I do use a gravel vac every time. I often wonder if the lack of agitation is a problem but the filter still pushes through 61G/hr and they are not big fans of water movement.

[SWilson]

I'm just here to follow @Isaac M's posts today 😉  lol.  But another thought - the tanks do look lovely as they are but live plants could help take up the ammonia and aid your cycle along.  You could also try adding tannins to the water by adding indian almond (aka cattapa) leaves, alder cones, or driftwood.  The tannins are said to have a natural anti-microbial effect.  

[Colu]

15 minutes ago, BCGirl said:

Thanks for the reply! I understand, bettas are a unique fish for sure. Nitrites are zero and Ned's nitrates tend to be at 5ppm when I do the weekly change. They've been set up since Nov/Dec but I did have to do a full clean in January so they restarted cycling then. Herb got moved to a smaller quarantine tank for his fin rot treatment but I tried to keep his main tank moving along with bacteria etc. while he was out. I know they hate water changes but I try to keep them as stress free as possible and only remove decor every 3rd or 4th week and I do use a gravel vac every time. I often wonder if the lack of agitation is a problem but the filter still pushes through 61G/hr and they are not big fans of water movement.

Frist  I agree your tank may not have finished cycling I would do small reqular water changes and add prime to detoxify the ammonia with salt treatment you can kill the bacterial causeing fin rot it will take time before you notice any visible improvement I would monitor for 2 weeks with no treatment after that if the fins have not started to regrow I would do salt baths 1 table for 2gallons for 10 minutes

Edited April 28, 2021 by Colu

[Isaac M]

Thanks @SWilson, I have been fairly active this morning 😂 but that is a great point, indian almond leaves also help reduce stress. 
 

@BCGirl if nitrites are zero and you have no nitrates and some ammonia. It is likely that the aquarium is in the beginning of the cycle. Given that Neds tank has nitrates, and assuming zero ammonia and zero nitrites, his tank is likely cycled. 

However, given Neds aquarium has such low low levels of nitrate (5 ppm), I think a water change is not needed every week. I would wait until the nitrates reach about 20 ppm before doing a water change. Especially given that water changes stress them out. 

I do not think having a low flow filter is a problem. In the tank that needs to be cycled, the filter just needs to become established with beneficial bacteria. 

[BCGirl]

Thank you all for weighing in! Ned's is the tank with low ammonia and nitrates of 5ppm. I just can't seem to get the ammonia to zero. I've been using prime every other day on Ned's tank to try to let the bacteria catch up. He seems a bit sensitive to prime so I may try ammolock instead. I've tried Indian Almond leaves but when I did they both went on tail biting benders. Not sure if it was related but I assumed it was. I can certainly try again as I still have some.

Herb has a few real anubias. I had real plants in Ned's but they never established and just made a mess. I will try to get some more and start again. How long do you recommend quarantining plants as every time I get them from the local stores they seem to have either worms or copepods or some other lovely little critter?

Thanks again all, I appreciate the insights.

[Isaac M]

You can always break the catappa leaves and add them to the filter only if you think the betta does not like the sight of them. That is odd but I would not add any sort of chemical that binds the ammonia. I would simply let the aquarium be and do a water change if the ammonia got too high (over .5ppm). 

Oftentimes too many changes at once or constantly cause a lot of stress to our aquariums. It is also difficult to tell what works and what does not work when too many things are changed at once. Sometimes even doing nothing is the answer. I would recommend not making too many drastic changes and simply letting the aquarium find its balance. 

As far as quarantining plants, that is fairly odd that all of the plants have some sort of worms/ critter. I have never experienced this so hopefully someone else can weigh in on this. If it were me however, I would likely order the plants online from a trusted source. 

[FrozenFins]

Hey @BCGirl

1) Your bettas and your tanks are lovely

2) completley agree with @Isaac M about the non cycled part, luckyly bettas are very hardy fish and can withstand pretty much anything thrown at them.

3) Could we get your exact water parameters in particular your nitrates and nitrites?

4) The tail bighting is extremley common within betta fish, most of the time it means that they are board and want something to do. Once your 100% sure the tank is cycled, I would add some tank mates to keep the bettas company. I currently have Neon Tetras with my betta but you could also do fish like...

• Varirous kinds of rasboras
• Cardinal Tetra
• Corydoras
• Snails

[BCGirl]

Great advice. I was worried that the .25ppm ammonia was causing Ned distress and that was why his fins were splitting. But I will leave it be for longer and just keep checking the ammonia levels. I'll try the leaves in the tank and if they seem to react, I'll put them in the back filter part and cross my fingers.

I'll also check online for some plants as I would certainly prefer them to have real plants where possible.

[Isaac M]

@BCGirl Anubias plants, java ferns, christmas moss, java moss should all be pretty safe choices for your aquarium setup. Let us know if you have any other questions, keep us updated! 

Also, just a tip, you can type “@“ and then tag our names onto your post if you want any one of us to see your post. If not, it is possible that we can miss it. 

[BCGirl]

@Isaac M@James Black thank you both you have been very helpful, and apologies on tagging you. I'm new to forum posting.

Parameters are

Ned: Ammonia .25; Nitrites 0, Nitrates 5ppm; KH 0 (maybe an error); pH 6.8; Cl2 0, GH 75

Herb: Ammonia, nitrites and nitrates all 0 (so I suspect him being in quarantine reset the cycle) KH 80; pH 6.8, Cl2) and GH 75

As for tank mates, I tried zebra snails with Herb and he was very unimpressed and kept attacking them so they moved in with my happy betta. Which was sad because together they were Herb, Johnny Fever and Venus FlyTrap for all the WKRP in Cincinnati fans out there 😉  Wouldn't a 9G tank be too small for fish tank mates? I would hate to overstock once I get this settled.

Thanks for the plant tips. I've not found java fern locally but as recommended I'll see what I can get for plants online.

[FrozenFins]

@BCGirlMy Betta has 5 neon tetras as freinds in a 5 gallon, so a 9 gallon should be no problem. Of course stocking varys on the tank setup, but yours should be fine.

[Isaac M]

No problem @BCGirl, I am new to forums as well so just thought I would share that knowledge haha 

I would retest the kH, I imagine it is a inaccurate test reading. Overall, I would let the aquarium be and not make many changes for now. Let the tank become established and cycled. 

About the tank mates, if Herb relentlessly attacked the snails, I would hesitate to add other fishes to his aquarium. To keep him entertained, maybe a mirror can help? What do you think @James Black? I have not done that yet but I know some people find it helpful for their betta. 
 

[BCGirl]

@Isaac M I've often looked at the mirrors on Amazon. Herb will flare when I put my finger to the glass so I give him little workouts doing that. Also if I put the bright lights on they can see themselves in the glass and will flare so on occasion I do that too, just not for very long so they don't get overly stressed. I think these two are just high maintenance lol.

But I will do less frequent water changes, keep an eye on the ammonia, add some leaves again and try to get some good plants for Ned Flounders.

[Nanotanks]

Just a thought: maybe the every other day use of Prime is limiting the oxygen levels in Ned's tank?

One of the side effects of overdosing Prime (per their FAQ) is limited oxygenation. You stated you thought an airstone might help: I've noticed that we arrive at the right answer while solving the equation differently very often in life.

Oh, and another little thing: the decaying leaves will add to the nitrate levels so expect to see that with your water tests.

As for  "clean" plants: in vitro cups are your best bet to avoid pests. They aren't much more expensive, but they last much longer in the mail if you get delays, and are almost always completely pest free if from a respectable retailer. You can get them on Amazon or at most local stores!

Edited April 28, 2021 by Nanotanks

[BCGirl]

@Nanotanksthanks I’ll definitely layoff the prime. I had wanted to let the bacteria catch up without doing a lot of water changes but obviously that wasn’t working. 

I’ll keep an eye on the parameters so thanks for the heads up about nitrates as I wouldn’t have expected that. 

@Isaac M I managed to get some driftwood and moss from an in vitro cup so that should avoid any more pests while getting some live plants in the tank. I’ll add more after I see how this one goes. So far he’s pretty curious about it so I hope it helps.

Thanks again everyone, I appreciate any help I can get and you all have been great.