Where for art thou Nitrogen?

[Chris45]

I thought I'd make a new thread that follows on from HERE, since I've already introduced myself.

It has now been 8 days of cycling using fish food, and there is still no sign of any of any ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. Additionally, I have had 4 neon tetras and a guppy in the tank for 3 or 4 days as well. These came from a friend who was decommissioning his small tank.

Not sure why nothing is showing up, but I think it might be one of two things or both.

I have a large bag of neolite in a bag sitting in the filter. Whenever I ask about neolite people say it's fine just leave it in there. However when I google neolite, I read that the main purpose of neolite in an aquarium is to devour huge amounts of ammonia... seems like a smoking gun?

Only other thing I can think of is just the volume of the tank - maybe the fish food is too diluted due to the volume of water (~80 gallons / 300 litres).

I'm inclined to remove the neolite if nothing shows up after a few more days. I'm just a bit worried about a double whammy of ammonia finally showing up just as I remove the neolite, causing a spike.

It has to be the neolite right?

 

[Eric R]

Are you still adding two caps each of API Stress Zyme and SeaChem Stability every day? I wonder if that could affect your ammonia readings, I've only used Prime as a conditioner but it's known to do so.

Also, since your friend just(?) broke down a tank, is it possible for you to grab some of his old cycled filter media, or and decorations or substrate from his tank that may have beneficial bacteria on it? That can help with your cycle. Also, yes 5 small fish won't produce a lot of waste in such a large tank. Be careful not to add too many fish at once though later, cause even once your tank is cycled you could get a mini cycle.

[Chris45]

Yes still adding the API Stress Zyme and Stability. Is that not advisable now that I have some fish in there?

My friend's tank was around 30 litres, but for whatever reason he had turned off the hang on back filter a long time ago and some of the media had dried out. I assume the bacteria from that had died out but I did grab the media from it and I currently have it suspended in a bag in my tank just in case (around 20 pieces of bio rings and the plastic insert (not carbon)).

I also salvaged 3 pretty healthy looking plants from his tank. I will post pics of those soon.

[Chris45]

This is the guppy. How can I tell the sex?

[Eric R]

On 4/27/2021 at 11:26 AM, Chris45 said:

Yes still adding the API Stress Zyme and Stability. Is that not advisable now that I have some fish in there?

From looking at the instructions for these products, they both seem to be bacteria-based additives. I would follow the instructions for the first week or two of setting up your aquarium, and, if desired, continue to dose after each water change until you tank is fully cycled and stocked. You shouldn't need to continue using products like these if you have live plants, a cycled biological filter, substrate, and you do periodic partial water changes. These products are designed to help get your bacteria based biological filter established, and while they can continue be used indefinitely, they shouldn't need to be for a properly matured tank. They also shouldn't harm fish when dosed according to the instructions, so you don't need to worry about that. Just keep testing your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels regularly, do 25-30% water changes once once a week, or more often if testing show elevated levels of ammonia or nitrate, and post here if you run into any issues.

[Eric R]

5 hours ago, Chris45 said:

This is the guppy. How can I tell the sex?

Not the best picture, but looks like a male? See the Aq-coop article on guppies:
https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/guppy-care-guide

[Chris45]

Thanks @ererer, I think it looks like a male as well.

Since it's amost two weeks since I setup the tank, I will stop adding the Stress Zyme and Stability. Tests still show zero of anything. My water must be blessed!

 

[Eric R]

6 minutes ago, Chris45 said:

Thanks @ererer, I think it looks like a male as well.

Since it's amost two weeks since I setup the tank, I will stop adding the Stress Zyme and Stability. Tests still show zero of anything. My water must be blessed!

 

5 small fish in an 80 gallon is a pretty minimal bioload. I have more than 20 fish of similar size in a 55g, which still is only moderately stocked. Be sure to shake the absolute heck out of the nitrate testing fluids and do the full 30 seconds and 1 minute recommended on the testing instructions, if you don't it's easy to get false nitrate readings. If you still have zero readings for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate, you can add several more fish (though you should quarantine and treat with the med trio first if possible). Do you have your stocking for this tank decided on already?

[Chris45]

I was thinking something like this, although maybe it's too much clean up crew

tank

Unfortunately I don't have another tank setup for a quarantine atm. 

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Chris45

[Hobbit]

There are certainly people who live on the edge and never quarantine their fish. Just know that if something does bring a disease in, medicating 80 gallons is going to be a lot more expensive than medicating 10.

In terms of your bio load, just add fish slowly, a few at a time, to give the cycle time to ramp up with each addition.

If you like clean-up crew fish, then there’s no such thing as too many of them! 😊

I don’t know a lot about cichlids so someone else will have to weigh in about compatibility and such, but generally you want to add territorial fish last.

[Patrick_G]

I agree with @ererer that your bio load is pretty minimal for 80 gallons. The tank might cycle before you get any measurable Ammonia. 

[Eric R]

9 hours ago, Chris45 said:

I was thinking something like this, although maybe it's too much clean up crew

If you're considering corys as part of the "cleanup crew", I wouldn't do so. They are fish the same as other fish, and should be fed intentionally and not just be expected to cleanup after other fish. Shrimp and snails are more suited for a cleanup crew role. I think your cherry shrimp will just be a cichlid snack. I'd suggest a larger group of a single species of corys instead of two small groups of two species. You'll get more interesting and natural behavior that way. Hatchet fish will also do better in a group of 8-10. I don't know about water parameters for all of those species.

Edited May 1, 2021 by ererer

[Chris45]

Which ones are the cichlids? Sorry new to this

[laritheloud]

8 hours ago, Chris45 said:

Which ones are the cichlids? Sorry new to this

Apistogrammas are dwarf cichlids! Beautiful fish, usually peaceful and work just fine in a community setting, often territorial when in breeding mode.

[Chris45]

I have added a few more fish, the tank is currently stocked with 10 neon tetra, 3 guppies 1 small male and 2 females that are twice his size, and 3 dwarf gourami (flame). Still nothing measurable in the tests.

Also added a few plants - 2 valisneria and two baby tears. Not sure which plant that is in the right side of the tank.

I have ordered a water pump, which should arrive by Wednesday. Once that arrives I will bust open the filter and remove the zeolite, and see if that changes anything.

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Chris45

[Eric R]

On 5/1/2021 at 12:36 AM, Chris45 said:

Which ones are the cichlids? Sorry new to this

 

On 5/1/2021 at 9:05 AM, laritheloud said:

Apistogrammas are dwarf cichlids! Beautiful fish, usually peaceful and work just fine in a community setting, often territorial when in breeding mode.

The blue acara (Andinoacara pulcher) is also a type of cichlid.

[Eric R]

4 hours ago, Chris45 said:

I have added a few more fish, the tank is currently stocked with 10 neon tetra, 3 guppies 1 small male and 2 females that are twice his size, and 3 dwarf gourami (flame). Still nothing measurable in the tests.

Also added a few plants - 2 valisneria and two baby tears. Not sure which plant that is in the right side of the tank.

I have ordered a water pump, which should arrive by Wednesday. Once that arrives I will bust open the filter and remove the zeolite, and see if that changes anything.

 

Great looking tank so far!

[Chris45]

Seeing some nitrate for the first time after almost a month of cycling. Does this mean I am now cycled?

Still haven't seen any nitrite at all. How is that possible?

[Patrick_G]

If you’ve added some liquid fertilizer like Easy Green it’ll raise the Nitrate Reading. 

[tonyjuliano]

You’re fully cycled when ammonia and nitrite are not detectable, but nitrate is present in some concentration.

The presence of nitrite means you are in the intermediary stage, but not complete. You need to see nitrite in some level to ensure the cycle is happening.

As stated it is possible to have nitrate due to introduction via other means, such as chemical fertilization.  That’s why it’s never a good idea to fertilize before you know nitrites have been produced, and equally important that you test often during the startup period.

Edited May 14, 2021 by tonyjuliano

[Hobbit]

1 hour ago, Chris45 said:

Still haven't seen any nitrite at all. How is that possible?

If your cycle is ramping up slowly (which I think we can safely assume it is 😉), you may never see much nitrite. It will get used up almost as fast as it’s produced. According to this test, it looks like you do have a very small amount of nitrite right now. And that’s great! Your cycle is getting there!

[tonyjuliano]

11 minutes ago, Hobbit said:

it looks like you do have a very small amount of nitrite right now.

Agreed...

it appears to be close to .25 ppm, but very hard to tell from the photo.

[Chris45]

21 hours ago, Patrick_G said:

If you’ve added some liquid fertilizer like Easy Green it’ll raise the Nitrate Reading. 

Have not added any fertiliser, so I think it's legit nitrate.