Whitecloud09 Posted July 18 Author Share Posted July 18 On 7/18/2024 at 7:18 PM, johnnyxxl said: You are correct, I more seasoned my tank than cycle but yes Wow! I never knew. Thinking now of Cory, isn’t this what he does? @johnnyxxl. Thanks so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 On 7/18/2024 at 7:10 PM, Whitecloud09 said: was told somewhere else that adding ammonia and nitrite to get to 0 within 24hrs is not a requirement. And that as long as nitrates present, and ammonia and nitrite is gone, your cycled. Is this correct? It is most definitely not a requirement. It is a metric that some people advocate for. Some people advocate for a fish in cycle and simple stock lightly and water change out ammonia and nitrites as needed. That method works too… As long as nitrates present and ammonia and nitrites are gone your cycled? well, how long is a piece of rope? 2 feet? 10 feet? 20? Yes if you have nitrites and noammonia and no nitrites, well you certainly have “some” of both types of needed beneficial bacteria.. the question is how much ammonia can that bacteria process in 24 hours to no ammonia no nitrites.. if it takes 8 days to metabolise a 2 ppm challenge dose, than the tank can process a bioload of 0.25 ppm of ammonia a day. If you keep stocking low enough that fish and food do not produce more than 0.25 ppm per day, then you are fine. If you add more fish that produce 1 ppm ammonia per day, be prepared to do water changes every day to other day as levels will build… There are many ways to do it… I would hesitate to argue that any way is “better” than another. It is moreabout understanding the pros and cons of each and choosing the one that will work best for you… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitecloud09 Posted July 18 Author Share Posted July 18 On 7/18/2024 at 7:41 PM, Pepere said: It is most definitely not a requirement. It is a metric that some people advocate for. Some people advocate for a fish in cycle and simple stock lightly and water change out ammonia and nitrites as needed. That method works too… As long as nitrates present and ammonia and nitrites are gone your cycled? well, how long is a piece of rope? 2 feet? 10 feet? 20? Yes if you have nitrites and noammonia and no nitrites, well you certainly have “some” of both types of needed beneficial bacteria.. the question is how much ammonia can that bacteria process in 24 hours to no ammonia no nitrites.. if it takes 8 days to metabolise a 2 ppm challenge dose, than the tank can process a bioload of 0.25 ppm of ammonia a day. If you keep stocking low enough that fish and food do not produce more than 0.25 ppm per day, then you are fine. If you add more fish that produce 1 ppm ammonia per day, be prepared to do water changes every day to other day as levels will build… There are many ways to do it… I would hesitate to argue that any way is “better” than another. It is moreabout understanding the pros and cons of each and choosing the one that will work best for you… Thanks for responding. So thinking of adding fish soon then, maybe harqulin rasboras, would 5 or 6 be to many at once @Pepere? Thanks a lot for responding btw, @Pepere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 I dont think 6 juvenile harlequins would be too much in a 20 gallon. I would feed very lightly 1 time per day. I would watch the tank closely for a few weeks. With new fish in a new tank I peraonally would test for ammonia and nitrites daily for a while. Some people may well argue for less frequent testing, and an argument could be made for that, but I like testing daily untill I have confidence that the bioload is not exceeding the cycle. Sometimes in a new tank you can see the ammonia being handled just fine, but nitrites building. It seems to take longer for nitrite metabolizing bacteria to grow… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitecloud09 Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 On 7/18/2024 at 7:59 PM, Pepere said: I dont think 6 juvenile harlequins would be too much in a 20 gallon. I would feed very lightly 1 time per day. I would watch the tank closely for a few weeks. With new fish in a new tank I peraonally would test for ammonia and nitrites daily for a while. Some people may well argue for less frequent testing, and an argument could be made for that, but I like testing daily untill I have confidence that the bioload is not exceeding the cycle. Sometimes in a new tank you can see the ammonia being handled just fine, but nitrites building. It seems to take longer for nitrite metabolizing bacteria to grow… Ok. I meant the small harlequin rasboras, which can be in nano tanks. I actually decided to add ammonia today. Will test tomorrow. I am going to wait a week or two again, and see @Pepere, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyxxl Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 On 7/18/2024 at 7:19 PM, Whitecloud09 said: Wow! I never knew. Thinking now of Cory, isn’t this what he does? @johnnyxxl. Thanks so much. On 7/18/2024 at 7:10 PM, Whitecloud09 said: @Pepere, @lefty o, @johnnyxxl Yeah I didn't even know that it was what I did, I saw a video mentioning it after I had my tank going. The key for us is just knowing that the tank will work the way we want. I wasn't going to want to be doing big water changes every day when I started. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitecloud09 Posted July 20 Author Share Posted July 20 I am about to test paremeters. And see the nitrite and ammonia levels. Then I will post results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattP Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 (edited) The tank looks good! The substrate is an excellent home for nitrifying bacteria. I think trying to cycle without fish is too hard. The issue of trying to cycle a tank by dosing ammonia alone is that it's not continuous. The bacteria needed to maintain the cycle will collapse in a domino effect once the source ammonia is depleted. With the fish-in method you have continous ammonia to feed the cycle. But you gotta keep the parameters good enough so it doesn't, youknow kill the fish. The first one is always hard. The aqarium co-op store has the most excellent testing strips to make easy work of testing your params. So I would do intermittent water changes and doses of water conditioner so it get too spicy in there for em. Let the cycle set in nice and gentle. As for stocking options you could do like 10 neon tetras or something to start. Or 5 for a more conservative number. Those are great in a 20 long. They also look pretty cool in a planted tank like that. Edited July 20 by MattP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitecloud09 Posted July 20 Author Share Posted July 20 On 7/19/2024 at 11:23 PM, MattP said: The tank looks good! The substrate is an excellent home for nitrifying bacteria. I think trying to cycle without fish is too hard. The issue of trying to cycle a tank by dosing ammonia alone is that it's not continuous. The bacteria needed to maintain the cycle will collapse in a domino effect once the source ammonia is depleted. With the fish-in method you have continous ammonia to feed the cycle. But you gotta keep the parameters good enough so it doesn't, youknow kill the fish. The first one is always hard. The aqarium co-op store has the most excellent testing strips to make easy work of testing your params. So I would do intermittent water changes and doses of water conditioner so it get too spicy in there for em. Let the cycle set in nice and gentle. As for stocking options you could do like 10 neon tetras or something to start. Or 5 for a more conservative number. Those are great in a 20 long. They also look pretty cool in a planted tank like that. Thank you so much @MattP! Yes, I actually always have a slight suspicion about cycling with bottled ammonia. For example, as you said about the domino effect, I have a 10g that is now thriving but a few months back I had a 3-month ammonia spike! Thankfully my fish are WCMMs, so they did not die or even get sick which is amazing. They are fine now too. Plus my snail. But I feel like the cycle has a chance to collapse for some reason if you add bottled ammonia. Why? I have no clue; it's just a thought. @Pepere, i might go with fish after a wc next week. I like the idea about neons, but does anyone have any ideas for a few fish, that add little bioload? I would love to hear if you do. I am tho thinking about neons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 On 7/20/2024 at 8:08 AM, Whitecloud09 said: i might go with fish after a wc next week. I like the idea about neons, I remember when I was a kid and set up a tank, there was no word about cycling and ammonia and nitrite. The fish just started mysteriously dying after 3-4 days… And the Neons were always the first to go…. once fish stopped dying we would go get replacements…. so, Neons would not be my first choice…. But then again, your tank is fairly well along in its cycle already…. Iread your other post talking about doing large waterchanges early on multiple times a week. As someone else said if you stock lightly, feed lightly you probably will not have to. I would just test for ammonia and nitrites frequently and be prepared to. you have another tank, right? What do you have for a filter in there? can you clean the media or sponges in some dechlorinated water and dump the water into the new tank? That would likely give your new tank a big boost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitecloud09 Posted July 20 Author Share Posted July 20 On 7/20/2024 at 3:52 PM, Pepere said: I remember when I was a kid and set up a tank, there was no word about cycling and ammonia and nitrite. The fish just started mysteriously dying after 3-4 days… And the Neons were always the first to go…. once fish stopped dying we would go get replacements…. so, Neons would not be my first choice…. But then again, your tank is fairly well along in its cycle already…. Iread your other post talking about doing large waterchanges early on multiple times a week. As someone else said if you stock lightly, feed lightly you probably will not have to. I would just test for ammonia and nitrites frequently and be prepared to. you have another tank, right? What do you have for a filter in there? can you clean the media or sponges in some dechlorinated water and dump the water into the new tank? That would likely give your new tank a big boost. Yes I looked into neons. Kinda turning away from that i sea at the moment. Yes I do, a 10g that has a hob. I have a filter cartridge in there. Thanks btw @Pepere. Kinda thinking of some type of Rasbora? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 On 7/20/2024 at 5:07 PM, Whitecloud09 said: have a filter cartridge in there. Swish it in dechlor water and go at the filter floss side with a tootbrush. Pour the water into the new tank… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitecloud09 Posted July 20 Author Share Posted July 20 On 7/20/2024 at 5:20 PM, Pepere said: Swish it in dechlor water and go at the filter floss side with a tootbrush. Pour the water into the new tank… Got it. I will do that today. Thank you so much. I am looking online about the corys, looks like they will be 50bucks, for 6, so I might do that to add them next week or the so, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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