40 gallon Amazon River Biotope Stocking ideas

[Tlindsey]

On 7/5/2024 at 8:49 AM, vinny said:

And prob my last question for you. How long can nano fish last without food? I’m going to NYC in a week

They should be fine for a week. @vinny

[vinny]

On 7/5/2024 at 8:53 AM, Tlindsey said:

They should be fine for a week. @vinny

Oh ok thank you. Good luck with all your tanks 🙂

[Tlindsey]

On 7/5/2024 at 8:49 AM, vinny said:

And prob my last question for you. How long can nano fish last without food? I’m going to NYC in a week

 

On 7/5/2024 at 8:54 AM, vinny said:

Oh ok thank you. Good luck with all your tanks 🙂

Thank you!

Edited July 5 by Tlindsey
Double post

[Rube_Goldfish]

That 10 gallon tank looks really good! If you can find a place to cram it in, you can put an extra sponge filter or even just the sponge, or a mesh bag (or tied off pantyhose or something) with the filter media of your choice. You've got to wait anyway to save up the money for the big tank, so you might as well get a jump start on seeding its filter now.

Are you planning to make the plants match the Amazon basin biotope plan, too? It's a shame that plants can be so expensive, but in my experience, the heavier a tank is planted right from the beginning, the better all the plants seem to do (and the easier maintenance can be). I'd suggest planning a pretty good chunk of your budget to plants, though it's easy for me to spend other people's money!

[vinny]

On 7/5/2024 at 9:32 AM, Rube_Goldfish said:

That 10 gallon tank looks really good! If you can find a place to cram it in, you can put an extra sponge filter or even just the sponge, or a mesh bag (or tied off pantyhose or something) with the filter media of your choice. You've got to wait anyway to save up the money for the big tank, so you might as well get a jump start on seeding its filter now.

Are you planning to make the plants match the Amazon basin biotope plan, too? It's a shame that plants can be so expensive, but in my experience, the heavier a tank is planted right from the beginning, the better all the plants seem to do (and the easier maintenance can be). I'd suggest planning a pretty good chunk of your budget to plants, though it's easy for me to spend other people's money!

Yea I prob like $150 on plants. On my 10 gal I spent $80 which is crazy expensive but it’s def worth it. And do you have suggestions for Amazon river plants?

[Rube_Goldfish]

On 7/5/2024 at 9:34 AM, vinny said:

Yea I prob like $150 on plants. On my 10 gal I spent $80 which is crazy expensive but it’s def worth it. And do you have suggestions for Amazon river plants?

The nice thing is that lots of plants can be propagated pretty easily, so you can just let them grow and get more that way, and eventually can sell trimmings, if you get things going really well. I know transportation can be tough at 14, but if you have a local aquarium club near you and can arrange to get there, you can a) sell some of your trimmings; and b) get some absolute deals on plants (and fish, and equipment, and hardscape...). Plus it's just lots of fun to nerd out with the other nerms*. ACO has a non-exhaustive list of clubs here: https://www.aquariumcoop.com/apps/store-locator

As far as Amazon plants? I'd have to do some research. My plants are from all over. But off the cuff, Amazon sword is a classic. I love Lilaeopsis brasiliensis, either as a carpet, if you can manage, or just as a foreground accent (which is what i can manage). Amazon frogbit is a great floater, though I've never had it myself.

* Nerm - someone who seems normal until you get them talking about fish, which is when they reveal how nerdy/passionate they are

[vinny]

On 7/5/2024 at 9:44 AM, Rube_Goldfish said:

The nice thing is that lots of plants can be propagated pretty easily, so you can just let them grow and get more that way, and eventually can sell trimmings, if you get things going really well. I know transportation can be tough at 14, but if you have a local aquarium club near you and can arrange to get there, you can a) sell some of your trimmings; and b) get some absolute deals on plants (and fish, and equipment, and hardscape...). Plus it's just lots of fun to nerd out with the other nerms*. ACO has a non-exhaustive list of clubs here: https://www.aquariumcoop.com/apps/store-locator

As far as Amazon plants? I'd have to do some research. My plants are from all over. But off the cuff, Amazon sword is a classic. I love Lilaeopsis brasiliensis, either as a carpet, if you can manage, or just as a foreground accent (which is what i can manage). Amazon frogbit is a great floater, though I've never had it myself.

* Nerm - someone who seems normal until you get them talking about fish, which is when they reveal how nerdy/passionate they are

Guess ima a nerm even though ima hooper too. But thanks for the suggestions and yea I have sold my rotola trimmings to my neighbor twice each time for $4 🙂

[beastie]

Let me put my two cents in.

If you want a pair of apistogramma that will inevitably mature and spawn, you should never house it with any sort of corydoras, as the apistos will try to chase them away, fail since corydoras are not the sharpest tools in the box, and ultimately harm them by poking their eyes out and hurting them 

You could have just a male apistos, that would avoid this issue, though the research on how much the fish would be unhappy without its own species varies.

Secondly, if you are going for corydoras at all, stick to one kind and increase their numbers. Six is minimum but they live in hundreds and don't recognize other corydoras as their own, so keeping six + six is sticking to two bare minimum and not doing them any favors.

In regards of stocking order, the most territorial and most aggressive fish need to go last, or in your case next to last. While i would never again buy any wild caught otocinclus, just because their mortality rate even with good quarantine is 60%, more often without a well algae filled quarantine 90% and they are not out of the woods in the next six months in the tank either, i also wouldn't add them to a tank that has not been ran less than 8 months, just because of the biofilm. They are also schooling and appreciate a 10 and more, which is hard and expensive to keep alive and harder yet to feed.

Also in the future once you learn a bit about fish keeping, you will also learn one larger school of fish will always look way better than more schools of fewer fish, but that is not a mistake and it is an experience you can learn with time without hurting your fish, so no need to change that stocking list.

I wish you most of luck and also that you learn from all of our beginners mistakes without the pain we all went through 🙂

 

[vinny]

On 7/5/2024 at 3:12 PM, beastie said:

Let me put my two cents in.

If you want a pair of apistogramma that will inevitably mature and spawn, you should never house it with any sort of corydoras, as the apistos will try to chase them away, fail since corydoras are not the sharpest tools in the box, and ultimately harm them by poking their eyes out and hurting them 

You could have just a male apistos, that would avoid this issue, though the research on how much the fish would be unhappy without its own species varies.

Secondly, if you are going for corydoras at all, stick to one kind and increase their numbers. Six is minimum but they live in hundreds and don't recognize other corydoras as their own, so keeping six + six is sticking to two bare minimum and not doing them any favors.

In regards of stocking order, the most territorial and most aggressive fish need to go last, or in your case next to last. While i would never again buy any wild caught otocinclus, just because their mortality rate even with good quarantine is 60%, more often without a well algae filled quarantine 90% and they are not out of the woods in the next six months in the tank either, i also wouldn't add them to a tank that has not been ran less than 8 months, just because of the biofilm. They are also schooling and appreciate a 10 and more, which is hard and expensive to keep alive and harder yet to feed.

Also in the future once you learn a bit about fish keeping, you will also learn one larger school of fish will always look way better than more schools of fewer fish, but that is not a mistake and it is an experience you can learn with time without hurting your fish, so no need to change that stocking list.

I wish you most of luck and also that you learn from all of our beginners mistakes without the pain we all went through 🙂

 

What do you think my stocking should be then with numbers plz? Sounds like you are a veteran fish keeper 

[beastie]

If it were my 40 gallon, I would go like this. (I had to guess the dimensions as I dont remember what a 40 gal dimensions are)

 

 

or do a pair of apistos, with caves and hideouts, and forego the corydoras.

Add 3 ammano shrimps once you start to see the need for them 

[vinny]

On 7/8/2024 at 2:32 AM, beastie said:

If it were my 40 gallon, I would go like this. (I had to guess the dimensions as I dont remember what a 40 gal dimensions are)

 

 

or do a pair of apistos, with caves and hideouts, and forego the corydoras.

Add 3 ammano shrimps once you start to see the need for them 

Ok thank you

[vinny]

On 7/8/2024 at 2:32 AM, beastie said:

If it were my 40 gallon, I would go like this. (I had to guess the dimensions as I dont remember what a 40 gal dimensions are)

 

 

or do a pair of apistos, with caves and hideouts, and forego the corydoras.

Add 3 ammano shrimps once you start to see the need for them 

Will the apisto eat the shrimp?

[beastie]

My amanos are 4-5 cm large, but I do not have apistogramma, I have bolivian ram, and their body is about as long as the amano 🙂 you can buy the larger ones, they should be ok

[vinny]

On 7/8/2024 at 9:51 AM, beastie said:

My amanos are 4-5 cm large, but I do not have apistogramma, I have bolivian ram, and their body is about as long as the amano 🙂 you can buy the larger ones, they should be ok

Oh ok and why would 1 bigger school look better than 3 species of small schools 

[beastie]

It may be my personal prefference, and some experience, but the rule for me is simple. Schooling fish are shy (or some are aggressive or nippy) and the solution is, to increase their number so they feel comfortable. There are many reported experience of people keeping 10 neons, 10 cardinals and not ever seeing their fish, complaints about fish being shy, complaints about phantom tetras nipping on other fish. All of those are solved by keeping a larger group. If you have more than one group, you cant have more numbers of each group due to stocking limits.

Also

or

 

and now some community tank with more than one schooling fish

 

[vinny]

On 7/8/2024 at 10:59 AM, beastie said:

It may be my personal prefference, and some experience, but the rule for me is simple. Schooling fish are shy (or some are aggressive or nippy) and the solution is, to increase their number so they feel comfortable. There are many reported experience of people keeping 10 neons, 10 cardinals and not ever seeing their fish, complaints about fish being shy, complaints about phantom tetras nipping on other fish. All of those are solved by keeping a larger group. If you have more than one group, you cant have more numbers of each group due to stocking limits.

Also

or

 

and now some community tank with more than one schooling fish

 

Could I keep in a 40 gallon

1 male apisto

15 cardinals

15 green neon

8 otos

12 panda corydoras

1 long finned pleco

 

 

[Lennie]

Vinny,

As I mentioned in my previous post, you should choose such setup as your "biotope" location. Nobody can really tell you buy X and Y and create a setup like that. What part of the river are even even talking about? Amazon River itself is too rich and big to cover it as only a general biotope really. You can't create a general biotope for a river as big as a continent almost.

 

If you are interested in biotopes, you should do lots of reading and researching.

What is biotope? 

 

What could be specific examples?

You will need an exact place, species that live together naturally, reflecting the nature in that area. You can't keep all the amazon river species together mixed in a tank and create a random tank with species/plants and call it a biotope. Don't get me wrong, you don't have to do a biotope, but biotope itself is losing the meaning very much in the hobby. So either do it correctly or don't call it biotope, I would say.

 

You can do lots of Heiko Bleher reading/watching to learn about biotopes.

 

Examples  for Rio Negro for you:

Igarapé do Daracua, the small forest stream of Rio Negro river, near Barcelos, Brazil

 

 

Brazil, Rio Negro, flooded forest at the source of a small igarapé in Cambeua

 

 

 

Rio Unini and junction to the basin of Rio Negro, Brazil

 

 

Rio Urubaxi, Rio Negro tributary, Amazonas, Brazil

 

 

 

I didnt check all videos in detail but species need to be living together and even on similar depth level naturally too. In the same part of the river, under similar conditions, etc. 

 

Like for the following video, someone said

"Rummy nose tetras (and pretty much any small tetra species) and corydoras never live in the same habitats with Discus, especially Heckel Discus. Discus live on depth between 1,5m and 5m, which is way too deep for small fish. Corydoras duplicareus and Silver Hatchets need temperatures under 27C, whereas Heckels are used to much higher temperatures. "

 

 

[vinny]

On 7/8/2024 at 1:31 PM, Lennie said:

Vinny,

As I mentioned in my previous post, you should choose such setup as your "biotope" location. Nobody can really tell you buy X and Y and create a setup like that. What part of the river are even even talking about? Amazon River itself is too rich and big to cover it as only a general biotope really. You can't create a general biotope for a river as big as a continent almost.

 

If you are interested in biotopes, you should do lots of reading and researching.

What is biotope? 

 

What could be specific examples?

You will need an exact place, species that live together naturally, reflecting the nature in that area. You can't keep all the amazon river species together mixed in a tank and create a random tank with species/plants and call it a biotope. Don't get me wrong, you don't have to do a biotope, but biotope itself is losing the meaning very much in the hobby. So either do it correctly or don't call it biotope, I would say.

 

You can do lots of Heiko Bleher reading/watching to learn about biotopes.

 

Examples  for Rio Negro for you:

Igarapé do Daracua, the small forest stream of Rio Negro river, near Barcelos, Brazil

 

 

Brazil, Rio Negro, flooded forest at the source of a small igarapé in Cambeua

 

 

 

Rio Unini and junction to the basin of Rio Negro, Brazil

 

 

Rio Urubaxi, Rio Negro tributary, Amazonas, Brazil

 

 

 

I didnt check all videos in detail but species need to be living together and even on similar depth level naturally too. In the same part of the river, under similar conditions, etc. 

 

Like for the following video, someone said

"Rummy nose tetras (and pretty much any small tetra species) and corydoras never live in the same habitats with Discus, especially Heckel Discus. Discus live on depth between 1,5m and 5m, which is way too deep for small fish. Corydoras duplicareus and Silver Hatchets need temperatures under 27C, whereas Heckels are used to much higher temperatures. "

 

 

On 7/8/2024 at 1:31 PM, Lennie said:

Vinny,

As I mentioned in my previous post, you should choose such setup as your "biotope" location. Nobody can really tell you buy X and Y and create a setup like that. What part of the river are even even talking about? Amazon River itself is too rich and big to cover it as only a general biotope really. You can't create a general biotope for a river as big as a continent almost.

 

If you are interested in biotopes, you should do lots of reading and researching.

What is biotope? 

 

What could be specific examples?

You will need an exact place, species that live together naturally, reflecting the nature in that area. You can't keep all the amazon river species together mixed in a tank and create a random tank with species/plants and call it a biotope. Don't get me wrong, you don't have to do a biotope, but biotope itself is losing the meaning very much in the hobby. So either do it correctly or don't call it biotope, I would say.

 

You can do lots of Heiko Bleher reading/watching to learn about biotopes.

 

Examples  for Rio Negro for you:

Igarapé do Daracua, the small forest stream of Rio Negro river, near Barcelos, Brazil

 

 

Brazil, Rio Negro, flooded forest at the source of a small igarapé in Cambeua

 

 

 

Rio Unini and junction to the basin of Rio Negro, Brazil

 

 

Rio Urubaxi, Rio Negro tributary, Amazonas, Brazil

 

 

 

I didnt check all videos in detail but species need to be living together and even on similar depth level naturally too. In the same part of the river, under similar conditions, etc. 

 

Like for the following video, someone said

"Rummy nose tetras (and pretty much any small tetra species) and corydoras never live in the same habitats with Discus, especially Heckel Discus. Discus live on depth between 1,5m and 5m, which is way too deep for small fish. Corydoras duplicareus and Silver Hatchets need temperatures under 27C, whereas Heckels are used to much higher temperatures. "

 

 

Well then can you help me make a biotope where their would be tetras pleco corydoras and then give me a centerpiece fish for 40 gal

[EricksonAquatics]

I think what @Lennie meant was you should do a little research using the videos they provided and decide if you want to do a specific biotope or not. 🙂

On 7/8/2024 at 12:12 PM, vinny said:

here their would be tetras pleco corydoras and then give me a centerpiece fish

If you’ve got time, watch those videos and I’m sure you’ll be able to answer your own question with a bit of research. Having a more specific location on the river might help others give you fish suggestions.

[vinny]

On 7/8/2024 at 3:38 PM, EricksonAquatics said:

I think what @Lennie meant was you should do a little research using the videos they provided and decide if you want to do a specific biotope or not. 🙂

If you’ve got time, watch those videos and I’m sure you’ll be able to answer your own question with a bit of research. Having a more specific location on the river might help others give you fish suggestions.

I just wanna do Amazon river theme not biotope seems to hard to replicate. Any stocking ideas now with 3 schooling fish, centerpiece, bottom dwellers, pleco, and maybe otos?

[CoryWithAKatana]

Corydoras will help keep your substrate clean, Julii corydoras will probably fit your theme more, Otos will clean your plants of algae. Apistogrammas or gouramis  could be a cool centerpiece fish. Schooling fish could include cardinal or neon or rummy nose tetras.