Keeping media cycled

[Cjbear087]

So I can’t keep a quarantine tank up permanently due to lack of space so keeping my filter cycled is going to be an issue. My plan is to cycle the media in my main tank by running it alongside my main tank filter media for about a week. Then I will take the canister filter out and leave it running in a small bucket full of dechlorinated tap water. I will have to keep dosing ammonia every so often so the bacteria stays alive. Then I can take the filter out of the bucket when I need and put it back in the bucket when I have finished with it. I have a few questions about this plan: first of all will it work? If so, how often should I be doing liquid ammonia and what target ppm should I be aiming for? My final question is will I have to keep changing this bucket water? I’m pretty sure the answer is no to this one but correct my if I’m wrong. Thanks 

[Tony s]

On 5/8/2024 at 7:13 PM, Cjbear087 said:

Then I will take the canister filter out and leave it running in a small bucket full of dechlorinated tap water. I will have to keep dosing ammonia every so often so the bacteria stays alive.

My main question is why would you want to add that level of complexity to your situation. I'd leave it running in the main tank until you actually need it. It's not doing any harm in there and it's bacteria colony is just going to get stronger.

[Cory]

Make life easy. Use a pre filter sponge on your filter. When you setup quarantine. Move your pre filter to the Quarantine tank, and put a new pre filter on your main tank.

If you aren't using hang on back/canisters. Then just run 2 sponge filters.

[lefty o]

yup, just keep some kind of filter running in your main tank you can quickly pull out and drop into your quarantine tank. dont over complicate it.

[Cjbear087]

On 5/9/2024 at 1:44 AM, lefty o said:

yup, just keep some kind of filter running in your main tank you can quickly pull out and drop into your quarantine tank. dont over complicate it.

I was told that would be fine however every time I use it in the qt tank I should sterilise the media which then becomes a pain because I’ll have to recycle the media every time I’m done with it, do you think this is necessary?

On 5/9/2024 at 12:36 AM, Cory said:

Make life easy. Use a pre filter sponge on your filter. When you setup quarantine. Move your pre filter to the Quarantine tank, and put a new pre filter on your main tank.

If you aren't using hang on back/canisters. Then just run 2 sponge filters.

The man himself!

How long do you think it would take to grow beneficial bacteria on a pre filter sponge in my main established tank?

On 5/9/2024 at 12:31 AM, Tony s said:

My main question is why would you want to add that level of complexity to your situation. I'd leave it running in the main tank until you actually need it. It's not doing any harm in there and it's bacteria colony is just going to get stronger.

The only issue is that I don’t really have any space to keep it up 

[Tony s]

@Cjbear087 honestly, I think we all basically said the same things in different ways. A extra sponge filter running at all times in your primary tank works best. Leave your quarantine tank empty and dry until you need it. And transfer over the sponge only when you need it. Instant cycle. I wouldn’t use any kind of anti bacterial meds unless you see something going on. It usually takes about 4 weeks to get a good bacteria colony going doing it like this. Anti parasitic meds can be used at anytime. They shouldn’t mess with your cycle. I’d also leave any fish in quarantine for 4 weeks. Think of this as your opportunity to observe them carefully to make sure they’re fully healthy. And treat them only as needed. For the pre filter sponge, there may not be enough surface area to establish a big enough colony to be effective. 
 

as for disinfecting your sponge if you do see a problem. Letting it completely dry out for a few weeks should be sufficient to kill most pathogens. 
 

try this, it’s long but very informative 

 

[Cjbear087]

On 5/9/2024 at 7:08 AM, Tony s said:

@Cjbear087 honestly, I think we all basically said the same things in different ways. A extra sponge filter running at all times in your primary tank works best. Leave your quarantine tank empty and dry until you need it. And transfer over the sponge only when you need it. Instant cycle. I wouldn’t use any kind of anti bacterial meds unless you see something going on. It usually takes about 4 weeks to get a good bacteria colony going doing it like this. Anti parasitic meds can be used at anytime. They shouldn’t mess with your cycle. I’d also leave any fish in quarantine for 4 weeks. Think of this as your opportunity to observe them carefully to make sure they’re fully healthy. And treat them only as needed. For the pre filter sponge, there may not be enough surface area to establish a big enough colony to be effective. 
 

as for disinfecting your sponge if you do see a problem. Letting it completely dry out for a few weeks should be sufficient to kill most pathogens. 
 

try this, it’s long but very informative 

 

So, I have a canister filter so I’m assuming the same applies, I just leave my canister filter running (gonna do in the back compartment of my tank because I don’t really want extra flow) in my main tank and as long as it’s kept running the bacteria will stay alive? Thanks 

[Tony s]

On 5/9/2024 at 2:32 AM, Cjbear087 said:

So, I have a canister filter so I’m assuming the same applies, I just leave my canister filter running (gonna do in the back compartment of my tank because I don’t really want extra flow) in my main tank and as long as it’s kept running the bacteria will stay alive

I run an fx2 in a 75g and I have a sponge filter going in the back at all times. Mostly for aeration, but it works really good for a quarantine filter as well. Cory has always said you can’t have too much air in the tank 🤣

A plain sponge doesn’t really give much flow, just a bit. Unless you have coops new style with the long bent tubing 

 

[Cjbear087]

On 5/9/2024 at 8:06 AM, Tony s said:

I run an fx2 in a 75g and I have a sponge filter going in the back at all times. Mostly for aeration, but it works really good for a quarantine filter as well. Cory has always said you can’t have too much air in the tank 🤣

Yeah I am starting to think I might get a sponge filter too, chuck it in the back compartment of my main and let it run with no pump just bubbles so it can build bacteria, then whenever I have it in the qt I’ll attach a pump and have it running as a proper filter. Would that work? Also looking at getting this one do you reckon it would work well? https://www.swelluk.com/aqua-one-filter-air-sponge-filter?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIn7vgvvn_hQMVwYBQBh23cw_1EAQYASABEgJAiPD_BwE#filter-air-136-sponge-filter

[Tony s]

On 5/9/2024 at 3:10 AM, Cjbear087 said:

Also looking at getting this one

I have something similar running in the 75. But you would need the air pump running on it, it would need some flow through it to grow a good colony 

[Tony s]

You could turn the air pump down. But some water flow would be essential to getting your bacteria to grow through it. 

[Cjbear087]

On 5/9/2024 at 8:43 AM, Tony s said:

You could turn the air pump down. But some water flow would be essential to getting your bacteria to grow through it. 

That’s fine leaving it running, if it’s in the back it won’t make a difference in the central part of the tank anyway. When you say the air pump needs to be connected you mean the actual submersible pump or just having the top of the sponge have water coming out of it?

[Tony s]

Top of the sponge having air coming out 

 

[jwcarlson]

Like others have said, having a sponge filter running in another tank is the way to play this game.

Another option is to just have a sponge filter and when you need a QT tank, squeeze some well cycled media into QT tank and kick off the bacterial colony that way.  It seems to be a pretty fast way of getting things going.  I might even call it "instant".  I also think that bacteria live longer than me might think.  I've left QT tanks running empty for... weeks at least and haven't seemed to have issues when adding fish to them after that.

[TOtrees]

Personally I think that you're overthinking/over-preparing @Cjbear087. Quarantine tanks are rarely set up with forethought, you need something you can put together and have running in a few hours or maybe a couple days. I wouldn't look to keep a filter cycled for months at a time, for possible future maybe just in case use, unless I could do so with literally zero extra effort and maintenance. You can even set the QT up without a filter, and manage ammonia/nitrite with water changes, while a newly-seeded filter catches up (ie fish-in cycle). 

I guess what I'm trying to say is your QT plan should work with your regular current tank plan. Like be part of that plan, not extra or in addition to. If you run 1 tank and want the option to start a QT tank, you want 3 filters: 2 running in the main tank, one of which can be moved to a QT tank when needed, plus the 3rd in reserve to replace the one you moved. The one that stays in the main tank should always be the most capable/highest capacity, so you don't perturb your cycle on the main tank when you move the second filter out. 

If you're going to keep a filter cycled and ready to deploy to a QT tank (ie the 2nd filter in my description above), my first rec would be sponge filter, my second would be hob, and canister would be a distant 3rd. 

[Cjbear087]

On 5/9/2024 at 1:42 PM, jwcarlson said:

Like others have said, having a sponge filter running in another tank is the way to play this game.

Another option is to just have a sponge filter and when you need a QT tank, squeeze some well cycled media into QT tank and kick off the bacterial colony that way.  It seems to be a pretty fast way of getting things going.  I might even call it "instant".  I also think that bacteria live longer than me might think.  I've left QT tanks running empty for... weeks at least and haven't seemed to have issues when adding fish to them after that.

The squeezing sponge is a good idea, but would the really be an “instant” cycle? Also I don’t have a sponge filter in my main aquarium but my mechanical media is a sponge (Fluval flex) so could that work?

[lefty o]

On 5/9/2024 at 1:32 AM, Cjbear087 said:

So, I have a canister filter so I’m assuming the same applies, I just leave my canister filter running (gonna do in the back compartment of my tank because I don’t really want extra flow) in my main tank and as long as it’s kept running the bacteria will stay alive? Thanks 

no bacteria wont stay alive just because you leave it running. bacteria must be fed, as they are a living organism.

[Cjbear087]

On 5/9/2024 at 3:37 PM, lefty o said:

no bacteria wont stay alive just because you leave it running. bacteria must be fed, as they are a living organism.

Well I think it will be being fed as there are fish in my main tank right?

[Tony s]

On 5/9/2024 at 10:49 AM, Cjbear087 said:

Well I think it will be being fed as there are fish in my main tank right?

Right, which is the point of having it there. It's just a set in and forget about kind of thing. ready to use whenever you need it.

[TOtrees]

Beneficial bacteria exist in millions and billions in our tanks. The population of bb on a 5 gal betta tank will be very different from a 90 gal mbuna tank. Both are cycled, but one will have many orders of magnitude more bacteria. In a stable tank, the number of bacteria will be proportional to the amount of food you add. Let's simplify and say ammonia is the only food; that can come from critter poop, decomposing plant matter, dying microoganisms, and etc. It's worth noting that not all those bb will live in the filter; depending on the tank, they may also be in substrate, on surfaces, etc.

Let's say a 20 gallon tank has 10 billion individual bb (pick a number, any number). That population is based on what's in the tank and how much food it gets. Where those bb live depends on the setup. If the filter has low flow (sponge?) there will be more bacteria on surfaces, and less in the filter. Because that's where the bb can get food. If the filter has high flow, it can sustain (attract) higher populations of bb because food (ammonia in the water) is constantly being imported. [Don't ask me to do the physics or math, but think of a car in the rain: does it get wetter sitting at a light, or flying down the highway? Same amount of rain, but moving the car through the environment increases the rate at which drops are encountered. Same with a filter, just in reverse]. So with the higher flow filter, the tank won't have more bb, but the filter might have a higher proportion of them. If your tank has two filters, they'll each carry a proportion of that max amount, and it will obviously be less than if there was 1 filter. 

If you double the amount of food per day, your bb will essentially also double. Halve the food, halve the ammonia, half the bb. 

Take one of two filters from a robust heavily stocked tank (say 50 fish), and add it to a QT with 6 new fish, all else being equal that filter will be more than enough to process all the waste from the QT, right from day 1. You might even see some bb die off bc the QT doesn't provide enough food.

Just thoughts.

[lefty o]

On 5/9/2024 at 9:49 AM, Cjbear087 said:

Well I think it will be being fed as there are fish in my main tank right?

as long is it is actually running in the tank.

Edited May 9 by lefty o

[jwcarlson]

On 5/9/2024 at 9:37 AM, lefty o said:

no bacteria wont stay alive just because you leave it running. bacteria must be fed, as they are a living organism.

They have to be fed, but it's not like they die if they don't have food for an hour or two.  Or a day or two.  Or possibly even months.  I've seen some things that indicate a year, but that might be a stretch.  I don't think BB is anywhere near as frail as most people make it out to be.  I rinse media in chlorinated tap water, let it sit out on a counter until I'm ready to put it back in the tank which might be 20+ minutes.  Talking sponges and other hard media.  Haven't noticed a single issue doing these things.  I wouldn't do these things the first minute I thought that my tank was cycled, but these bacteria are simply not as fragile as some people might lead you to believe.  There's a lot of voodoo and wild ideas that exist in this hobby from times when people were tearing aquariums down to the glass and sanitizing the whole thing periodically because we didn't know any better.

That said... it is SO much easier to run the filter on a tank until you need it.  It is absolutely the way to go, but for different reasons than it being the only way to keep the bacteria alive.

Edited May 9 by jwcarlson

[Cjbear087]

On 5/9/2024 at 7:40 PM, jwcarlson said:

They have to be fed, but it's not like they die if they don't have food for an hour or two.  Or a day or two.  Or possibly even months.  I've seen some things that indicate a year, but that might be a stretch.  I don't think BB is anywhere near as frail as most people make it out to be.  I rinse media in chlorinated tap water, let it sit out on a counter until I'm ready to put it back in the tank which might be 20+ minutes.  Talking sponges and other hard media.  Haven't noticed a single issue doing these things.  I wouldn't do these things the first minute I thought that my tank was cycled, but these bacteria are simply not as fragile as some people might lead you to believe.  There's a lot of voodoo and wild ideas that exist in this hobby from times when people were tearing aquariums down to the glass and sanitizing the whole thing periodically because we didn't know any better.

That said... it is SO much easier to run the filter on a tank until you need it.  It is absolutely the way to go, but for different reasons than it being the only way to keep the bacteria alive.

Appreciate the help as always 🙂

[jwcarlson]

On 5/9/2024 at 8:53 AM, Cjbear087 said:

The squeezing sponge is a good idea, but would the really be an “instant” cycle? Also I don’t have a sponge filter in my main aquarium but my mechanical media is a sponge (Fluval flex) so could that work?

As close to instant as you can get, in my opinion.  I honestly think more people don't do it because it makes an entire mess of the tank as long as you've got a good, "dirty" filter.  Any media that can be relocated from one tank to another works.  I've taken the sponges off of sponge filters and put them into a HOB.  

I'd suggest buying a sponge filter, they're cheap and easy and they are the most portable filter IMO.  

[Cjbear087]

On 5/9/2024 at 7:46 PM, jwcarlson said:

I'd suggest buying a sponge filter, they're cheap and easy and they are the most portable filter IMO.  

Did it as soon as you mentioned it lol

Edited May 9 by Cjbear087