Fish internally bleeding?

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

I was posting about this head-and-taillight tetra on my journal, and @Odd Duck and @Colu have been helping me. The fish has been struggling to swim properly. It is in quarantine, and I tried to treat swim bladder symptoms (just in case it was that). Today I notice dark patches around the stomach of the fish. Mainly on left side. My first move was to test ammonia; it is zero. I tested a few days ago as well (either Thursday or Friday) and it was zero. @Odd Duck has been suggesting the fish got injured. I wonder if this is internal bleeding? could it be something else that is treatable and that the fish can spring back from? I’ve never seen anything like this.

Scroll down for more photos.

The only treatments to date have been a 15 min Epsom salt dip (maybe 2 weeks ago), then I did mild aquarium salt on the tank he was in. 

After that, moved to quarantine because I was losing track of him in the plants, and he was “social distancing” as well.

Also a 3 day fast, then I offered peas, but he spit it out. I offered frozen cyclops today but I couldn’t tell If he ate it. He swam in and out of the cloud of it a few times so maybe he got some.

I was going to epsom salt this tank next, mild dose, but now I see these symptoms.

I did a water change today after the cyclops feeding. Routine weekly water change. I remove uneaten foods as well within 30 min.

 

Also my chart has something similar but for saltwater:

 

Actually above that saltwater fish I do see similar for freshwater also. Sorry, was hard to see on the orange fish they have on the chart. But the fish is NOT slugging or hiding so it doesn’t make much sense as a diagnosis. He's always moving. I don’t see him rest during the day.

Edited April 30 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[nabokovfan87]

I would think something like sepsis is setting in. Internal organ failures.  Waiting for the others to chime in, but yeah.... I cannot foresee this fish getting past this one.

On 4/29/2024 at 5:25 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Also a 3 day fast, then I offered peas, but he spit it out. I offered frozen cyclops today but I couldn’t tell If he ate it. He swam in and out of the cloud of it a few times so maybe he got some.

Typical as well with that sort of stomach discomfort.  Even in the pups, they don't feel well at all, but they might take a nibble just to test how they do with it.  Spitting the food out and that sort of thing or rejecting food outright, moreso, is the one sign where I would lean towards high stress/discomfort on the fishes behalf.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Interesting paper. The symptoms seem to match but I question the highly contagious virus part because 18 other fish show no signs or symptoms, and I have had this fish for probably a year already.

[Odd Duck]

The new symptoms suddenly strike me as potential liver disease.  If it was bruising from trauma, it should have shown up right when it happened or within a few days for deep bruising rising to the surface.  Discoloration like that makes me concerned about liver disease bad enough to cause a lack of clotting factor production (primarily produced in the liver).  Getting this kiddo eating becomes absolutely paramount as that’s necessary to achieve any chance of return of liver function.  Frozen, meaty foods would be most important.  Daphnia are recommended for constipation as their “shells” tend to help “clean out” the gut for meat eaters, frozen often being easier access than freeze-dried if not swimming well.  Many omnivores and herbivores will often eat crushed peas which are high enough fiber to help clean out the gut.

Liver disease is all about getting calories into the patient, but carefully since you don’t want to overload them at any point.  Most won’t eat enough initially to get overloaded, but may as they start to heal, so feed wisely, but tend toward meaty.  It may not be something you can fix, but that’s the direction I would lean.

Time to try Maracyn-2 since it’s a broad spectrum antibiotic that’s absorbed through the gut and excreted via the liver so it would tend to clean out the liver if infection is there.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 4/30/2024 at 4:58 PM, Odd Duck said:

The new symptoms suddenly strike me as potential liver disease.  If it was bruising from trauma, it should have shown up right when it happened or within a few days for deep bruising rising to the surface.  Discoloration like that makes me concerned about liver disease bad enough to cause a lack of clotting factor production (primarily produced in the liver).  Getting this kiddo eating becomes absolutely paramount as that’s necessary to achieve any chance of return of liver function.  Frozen, meaty foods would be most important.  Daphnia are recommended for constipation as their “shells” tend to help “clean out” the gut for meat eaters, frozen often being easier access than freeze-dried if not swimming well.  Many omnivores and herbivores will often eat crushed peas which are high enough fiber to help clean out the gut.

Liver disease is all about getting calories into the patient, but carefully since you don’t want to overload them at any point.  Most won’t eat enough initially to get overloaded, but may as they start to heal, so feed wisely, but tend toward meaty.  It may not be something you can fix, but that’s the direction I would lean.

Time to try Maracyn-2 since it’s a broad spectrum antibiotic that’s absorbed through the gut and excreted via the liver so it would tend to clean out the liver if infection is there.

Thanks @Odd Duck. Is Maracyn 2 effective in hard water?

[Odd Duck]

On 4/30/2024 at 5:11 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Thanks @Odd Duck. Is Maracyn 2 effective in hard water?

As far as I know.

[Colu]

On 5/1/2024 at 5:11 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Thanks @Odd Duck. Is Maracyn 2 effective in hard water?

Sorry for the late reply been travelling since Monday just got my destination I agree with @Odd Duckmaracyn2 is what I would recommend 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

I was not able to get Maracyn 2 until yesterday around 6pm. Had to call around to several LFS because I couldn’t get it shipped in any sort of timely fashion. I got home with the medicine last night but found patient too weak, unfortunately. 

Edited May 2 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[nabokovfan87]

My condolences @Chick-In-Of-TheSea.