Angelfish Deaths

[Gliderzz]

Bought a trio of angels with 12 rummies last week. Immediately put into a 10g with 3tbsp salt and 1ppm methylene blue. One was always a bit weak and timid, passed away after a wc a few days ago. I assumed it wasn't disease since some fish don't switch tanks well. Raised the salinity to 3.5tbsp. Today the second angel started acting weird. Lethargic, hiding. Now it has started laying on its side, spinning in circles. I'm assuming it will pass soon, but would like to save the last angel. The last one is quite sentimental to me so I'd really love to do something. Any advice?

[Ken Burke]

I’m not familiar with quarantining with salt and methylene blue, so not much help there.  My angels move tanks pretty well, so I’m not sure that is your problem. What are your water perimeters?  How are the rummies doing?  What size are your angels?  

[Gliderzz]

Angels are about 1.75 inches from head to tail and the rummies are doing great. It dawned on me that lack of food might be part of the issue. I've had two different fry species (honey gouramis and bronze cories) act very similar when experiencing malnutrition/lack of food. The rummies are very quick eaters and so I'd watch them whenever feeding. I always made sure to sprinkle in a bit extra food for the angels but haven't really observed them eating. Might have to specifically watch them eat to see if they've been getting much food into their bellies

[Tony s]

Two things. I think I’d back off the salt. If you’re not actively trying to treat something, 1 tbsp to 3.3 gallons is kinda high. 1 tbsp per 10 gallon would be fine. Have not used methylene blue in a whole tank before, but I’d give them an extra air stone for sure. Just to make sure the blue doesn’t deplete oxygen. 
 

and just checking, you do know that when dosing salt, not to add salt on top offs as salt doesn’t evaporate. Just add salt after water changes. So a 3 gallon change, add 1 teaspoon. 

[Gliderzz]

Thanks! I'll lower the salt concentration then, though I haven't had any issues with it having treated other low ph softwater species.

I'm also considering moving the last healthy one into a separate, empty & heavily planted 5.5 gallon tank. Just to make sure that (if it is a disease) it has the lowest chance of spreading & the angel gets lots of food without competition from rummies. If the angel does happen to get sick, then I would move it back into the medicated tank. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks again

Edited April 1 by Gliderzz

[Tony s]

@Colu is the person to ask about fish disease and treatment. But it does seem like a rather aggressive quarantine approach. Usually quarantine is mostly for observation. Not prophylactic treatments. I think at the most people will use coops quarantine trio. But most often nothing at all for four weeks. Just observation. Making sure they’re eating and active. If they stay that way, they’re usually fine. And if they don’t, you have a better idea of what to treat them with. 

[Gliderzz]

On 3/31/2024 at 9:44 PM, Tony s said:

@Colu is the person to ask about fish disease and treatment. But it does seem like a rather aggressive quarantine approach. Usually quarantine is mostly for observation. Not prophylactic treatments. I think at the most people will use coops quarantine trio. But most often nothing at all for four weeks. Just observation. Making sure they’re eating and active. If they stay that way, they’re usually fine. And if they don’t, you have a better idea of what to treat them with. 

Yeah, that's what I typically do. The reason I went with medication is since rummies are warned to be very sensitive to disease when purchased from the store. So I started out with my typical low-level treatment method for 1-2 weeks, then reducing it significantly for the following 1-2 weeks

[Tony s]

Okay, I know rummies are very sensitive to ich. Like from nothing to everything covered in a day or so. Then dead in another day or so. Not sure about other diseases though. And it might be better to target that in quarantine.. just not sure that would work though. 

[Colu]

There's not a lot to go on sound like there becoming weak that could be to illness lack of food can you post some pictures of the angels were they thin when you got them  did they have a sunken belly any rapid breathing hanging out near the surface spitting food out flashing   white stringy poop @Gliderzz

[Tony s]

On 4/1/2024 at 6:20 AM, Colu said:

There's not a lot to go on

Was worried about full doses of all three meds at same time. If that could be causing issues. Other than that????

and can you prophylactically treat for ich??  Especially for rummies?

[Colu]

On 4/1/2024 at 11:49 AM, Tony s said:

Was worried about full doses of all three meds at same time. If that could be causing issues. Other than that????

and can you prophylactically treat for ich??  Especially for rummies?

Methylene blue and salt at that concentration shouldn't have a negative effect on angel fish I don't recommend preventive treatment for  ich if your fish  don't have any visible ich it's just a waste of medication and is unnecessary stressful to the fish  exposing them to medication when they have been put in a new tank  if you have individual that were already weak the medication can push them over the edge 

[Tony s]

On 4/1/2024 at 6:58 AM, Colu said:

Was worried about full doses of all three meds at same time

Sorry got my threads mixed up. Is another one using a full dose of trio meds at same time. For his betta. 

[Gliderzz]

On 4/1/2024 at 6:20 AM, Colu said:

There's not a lot to go on sound like there becoming weak that could be to illness lack of food can you post some pictures of the angels were they thin when you got them  did they have a sunken belly any rapid breathing hanging out near the surface spitting food out flashing   white stringy poop @Gliderzz

They didn't seem thin, but also not like their stomach was full. Essentially what came first was lethargy, then rapid breathing, loss of balance & spitting all food out by that point. Occasionally would be able to swim normally for a few mins but would go back to laying down/spinning. No stringy poop & no flashing. Rummies are acting normal. I made the unfortunate decision to humanely euthanize it, as in my experience any fish at that point tends to pass away pretty fast but uncomfortably. Under the microscope I did not find any flukes.

I placed the last angel into a planted 5 gal to reduce food competition, and hopefully reduce disease spread (if disease is the issue). He looks and acts very normal. I was thinking that with adequate food & water the issue might go away on its own, and if it does return I could place the angel back into the qt tank. Would this be fine?

[Colu]

On 4/1/2024 at 2:29 PM, Gliderzz said:

They didn't seem thin, but also not like their stomach was full. Essentially what came first was lethargy, then rapid breathing, loss of balance & spitting all food out by that point. Occasionally would be able to swim normally for a few mins but would go back to laying down/spinning. No stringy poop & no flashing. Rummies are acting normal. I made the unfortunate decision to humanely euthanize it, as in my experience any fish at that point tends to pass away pretty fast but uncomfortably. Under the microscope I did not find any flukes.

I placed the last angel into a planted 5 gal to reduce food competition, and hopefully reduce disease spread (if disease is the issue). He looks and acts very normal. I was thinking that with adequate food & water the issue might go away on its own, and if it does return I could place the angel back into the qt tank. Would this be fine?

With spitting out food lethargy that can be a sign wasting disease I can't say for sure that's the causes if they already weak when you got them and they were getting out competed for food  that would also make then weak and cause a reduced feeding response if it were wasting disease you would want to treat with expel p active ingredient levamisole once a week for 4 weeks what I would do is feed small amount of food three to four times a day to gradually build them up if you notice no improvement or they get worse then I would treat with expel p 

[Gliderzz]

On 4/1/2024 at 10:01 AM, Colu said:

With spitting out food lethargy that can be a sign wasting disease I can't say for sure that's the causes if they already weak when you got them and they were getting out competed for food  that would also make then weak and cause a reduced feeding response if it were wasting disease you would want to treat with expel p active ingredient levamisole once a week for 4 weeks what I would do is feed small amount of food three to four times a day to gradually build them up if you notice no improvement or they get worse then I would treat with expel p 

Amazing. I usually have some idea with treating sick fish as it has happened a few times before, but this time I was totally lost. Thank you so much!