EricksonAquatics Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 Hello friends- I have your typical 10g tank with a betta and a nerite snail. It’s been up and running for over a year now, and I’ve struggled to balance it ever since!! I can’t get any of my plants to really thrive even though it feels like I’m doing things the right way. I think I need to start over with the basics. Anyways, I fairly recently got some “Pogostemon Stellatus Narrow Leaf” (which I’m not sure if it’s similar or completely different to Pogo Octopus) and it hasn’t done quite as well as I hoped. I purchased pogo from the co-op a while back and it also didn’t do so well. It handled things ok for a while but never took off and eventually melted away. There’s somehow always brown diatom algae on its leaves. I’m guessing it’s because it takes a minute to convert to submerged grown and the algae takes advantage of the old leaves? Who has experience with this plant? Does it take a while to convert? also, I’ve got an Easy LED at 30% and dose easy green one pump once per week. At the end of the week I get abt 40ppm nitrate, so I water change. 40 seems high, so maybe I should dose less ferts? I just barely switched my light timer to be on for six hours a day. It used to be on for around 7 and a half, so hopefully the shorter light period will stump the algae growth (mostly hair algae with a little brown diatom). Any tank balancing tips would be much appreciated! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQ Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 (edited) You will never cut enough light to solve an algae issue. Algae can grow with even a single led or ambient room light that higher plants can't use. The way you solve an algae issue is to learn to grow healthy plants (preferably lots of them)! This involves offering light and a BALANCED diet for your plants. I actually hate the term 'balanced tank' because its incredibly vague, balancing a tank comes in numerous balancing acts. One being learning to offer a balanced plant diet. Then learning to balance your lighting with the nutrients being offered. Light drives plants to absorb the nutrients which out competes the algae. Too much light without adequate fertilization a plant will cannibalize itself in search of nutrients (AKA melting). Too little light or nutrients, plants dont grow (the problem youre having) Without asking about water parameters and splitting hairs (another aspect of balancing your tank) IMO you are under fertilizing and under illuminateing your tank. As an example, in my lightly planted 15g guppy tank I have my easy light on at 10% for about 12h a day and adding 2 pumps of EZ green every other day with a 50% water change on sundays (usually). This ensures that there is always a balanced diet for my plants to consume or they will refuse to eat/grow. The water change is sort of a reset to ensure all nutrients added are balanced. I never test nitrate levels which again doesn't offer much insight (IMO), instead watch for plant growth. Edited March 17 by JoeQ proof reading 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 Are you using any root tabs? If not, I would suggest inserting those 1x / month. Also, what are your other water parameters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricksonAquatics Posted March 17 Author Share Posted March 17 Yes I plug in root tabs as needed. pH 8, GH about 25ppm, KH 80ppm. Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMartins Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 I had lots of trouble with Pogo and stem plants but I tried floating them first and when roots start growing out I’ll plant it in the substrate. So far so good!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricksonAquatics Posted March 17 Author Share Posted March 17 On 3/17/2024 at 6:43 AM, JoeQ said: Too little light or nutrients, plants dont grow (the problem youre having) So do you suggest keeping the intensity low and the lighting period longer? I thought that algae LOVES long low light periods, but maybe that’s fake news.😂 40ppm Nitrate seems high for my tank. I feel like it isn’t crazy heavily planted but maybe it needs more fertilizer and more light than I think. So from here, lengthen lighting period a tad and keep fert dosing the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQ Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 On 3/17/2024 at 12:42 PM, EricksonAquatics said: On 3/17/2024 at 8:43 AM, JoeQ said: So do you suggest keeping the intensity low and the lighting period longer? I thought that algae LOVES long low light periods, but maybe that’s fake news.😂 Algae loves nutrients, IMO they preferred them unbalanced because then they are easily scavenable. Higher plants (the ones we wish to grow) are in essence snobs. They want their diet balanced starting with the macro nutrients Nitrates, Phosphates and Potassium. When these nutrients are in balance (and we have adequate light for our plants) algae has to compete with our plants for a place at the table. When these nutrients are out of balance (ratios our plants prefer) or the light is too low for higher plants algae has the table to itself. So yes, it's partially true that algae does like low light. Actually it probably prefers it so it doesn't have to compete. Part of this balancing act is to adjust your lighting to encourage your plants to consume nutrients during your 'day time'. The other part is you need to provide the nutrients, falling short on either part is an invitation for algae to come to the party! On 3/17/2024 at 12:42 PM, EricksonAquatics said: 40ppm Nitrate seems high for my tank. I feel like it isn’t crazy heavily planted but maybe it needs more fertilizer and more light than I think. 40ppm tells me your plants stopped consuming after the first day because your npk ratio isn't to their liking. On 3/17/2024 at 12:42 PM, EricksonAquatics said: So from here, lengthen lighting period a tad and keep fert dosing the same? For starters, id set the light to 20% for 8 hours, adding one pump every other day. At the end of the week do a 30%~50% water change. Try this for 2 weeks and watch for new growth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQ Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 Also, if this is the pogo we are talking about it might be a little to high on the difficulty scale for us at the moment. https://www.flowgrow.de/db/aquaticplants/pogostemon-stellatus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricksonAquatics Posted March 17 Author Share Posted March 17 Thanks for the advice. Some people can grow Pogo like weeds, and some people can’t get it to grow. I guess I’m one of those people😂I do believe it does better in a high tech tank, but I thought I’d try it anyways. For now, though, I just want my plants to grow! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQ Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 (edited) On 3/17/2024 at 3:16 PM, EricksonAquatics said: Thanks for the advice. Some people can grow Pogo like weeds, and some people can’t get it to grow. I guess I’m one of those people😂I do believe it does better in a high tech tank, but I thought I’d try it anyways. For now, though, I just want my plants to grow! No trouble, also there is a video by Bentley Pasco (which I can't find right now) dealing with understanding your water. That video alone probably made the biggest impact when it came to getting a basic understanding of tanks in general. If I can find it ill post it. Second biggest impact was gaining an understanding of nutrition and libzects law (spelling) which states a plant will only grow to the point of it reaching its growth limiting nutrient. I believe this video is from Girl Talks Fish. Edited March 17 by JoeQ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricksonAquatics Posted March 17 Author Share Posted March 17 I have seen the Girl Talks Fish video! I need to watch it again to remember exactly what she talked about. Ill for sure look into the Pasco video 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQ Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 Here is the understanding your water link: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iLuq5vX3sZU&list=PLHZbMU5nMoipg5sjiPGX6aRtjEXfENHDb&index=4&pp=iAQB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricksonAquatics Posted March 17 Author Share Posted March 17 Thank you!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanked Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 It seems to work that way with a lot of the "easy plants" I'm one of the people who struggles with it. I've been struggling with PS'Octopus' and Wisteria. They don't like me and won't grow in my planted community. After seeing your question I started doing some additional reading. It is known to be a heavy feeder, but there seems to be some disagreement as to whether it is a primarily a column or root feeder. While it is sold as a low light plant here, it prefers higher light. I grow it in a 10 gallon tank lit by an LED flashlight for 16 hours. The Pogo grows very slowly. This fishless tank is generally a low/no tech tank, but a few weeks back I added an unregulated DIY sugar and yeast CO2 setup. The plants have doubled their size and I can begin taking cuttings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricksonAquatics Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 I agree, I think it’s pretty picky about conditions. Technically it’s supposed to be a high light + CO2 plant but I had heard people have success with it in lower light tanks. Thought I’d give it a try but it doesn’t seem to appreciate my tanks.🥲 Wisteria is another one that I cannot grow! It struggled so bad to convert and never thrived. Any other plants you’d recommend that seem to be bulletproof? Besides the typical rhizome plants 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanked Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Plastic plants are bulletproof, but they don't grow, and still get algae. @JoeQsaid it best: "I actually hate the term 'balanced tank' because its incredibly vague, balancing a tank comes in numerous balancing acts". Figuring out what kind of light you really have is one of those acts. Reading your original post was like reading my own notes except I have a bigger problem with spot algae on everything. It looks like you have medium-high light Vals receiving extra light in the back, and low light plants in darkness on the side that we see . Given time your Pogo might catch up. You can also clip and float the Pogo to stimulate growth. Otherwise, your lighting does not appear to be bright enough, or needs to be repositioned. I don't believe a bulletproof plant exists. You can grow Valisneria and Amazon Swords, I can't. If you can grow Vals, than the Italian Val. might grow for you. I introduced a narrow leaf Chain Sword to three tanks in mid January. They are also considered to be a medium light plant. The Swords are growing slowly, at different rates in each tank. The Sword in my 75 has put out 3 runners under the stock light. If it can continue to grow there, it might be close to bulletproof. Elodea can be anchored and planted or floated. Water sprite can be planted or floated, but prefers to float. It also does better with more light. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQ Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 On 3/19/2024 at 4:27 PM, Tanked said: I don't believe a bulletproof plant exists. Have you ever tried duck weed? 🤣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanked Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 On 3/19/2024 at 6:51 PM, JoeQ said: Have you ever tried duck weed? 🤣 I've been experimenting with duckweed for about 2 years. I brought home some wild caught duckweed with the intent of creating an auto feeder for the SDs. It grows outside but does poorly indoors. Some escaped into the planted tank and hasn't been seen since. The surviving colony seems to be growing. Considering it came from a lake, it seems to prefer zero water movement. It is trapped: in the Hornwort, behind a fence, separating the plants from the fish in a different tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricksonAquatics Posted March 21 Author Share Posted March 21 On 3/19/2024 at 4:51 PM, JoeQ said: Have you ever tried duck weed? 🤣 No - and I don’t plan on it!😂😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQ Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 On 3/20/2024 at 9:56 PM, EricksonAquatics said: No - and I don’t plan on it!😂😂 Ya don't know what you are missing till ya do!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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