Mysterious illness in dojo loach- please help!!!!

[suzanneisalive]

Hi everyone, please give me any advice that you can!! I have a dojo loach in a community tank that has an illness and I am unsure if I am treating her properly based on her symptoms. Her initial symptoms were moving erratically around the tank, even jumping out once, and having buoyancy issues (laying upside down in tank, floating on the surface, swimming sideways). I explained her symptoms to some employees at a fish store and they said it seems like she might have a parasite - so they told me to dose the tank with metroplex and prazipro simultaneously, which I have been doing for about 6 days. I am concerned that it is maybe not a parasite however, and actually a bacterial infection/swim bladder issue, so I have also been feeding her skinned cooked peas as I read that it can help with swim bladder and constipation issues. 

Her symptoms have gotten somewhat (?) better in the past couple days, she is not longer stuck lying on her back, her bloating has gone down, and she lies on her stomach like normal or on her side, but she is still swimming sideways and seems to have little energy/interest in swimming around. Her appetite is still normal, and has stayed the same since she's gotten sick. I am wondering if I should continue with the parasite treatment, or try moving her to another one of my tanks and treating her for a bacterial infection. 

The tank she is in is a 45 gal community tank with 3 other dojo loaches and a big dwarf guorami. The water conditions are good, although they weren't so good when she initially got sick and I've worked hard to get it back on track, and the temp is appropriate for dojo loaches. All of the other fish are 100% healthy and have no symptoms. I am hoping to move them all to a larger tank eventually.

Any suggestions are so, so appreciated. I didn't get much of a response on the last post I made but I really, really want to see her get better, and worry that I am pursuing the wrong treatment for her condition-- but at the same time I don't want to switch treatment plans if there is a chance it's working.

I can post follow up information or pictures if needed.

[Colu]

What were your water parameters when it first started showing symptoms how long have you had the loach before onset of symptoms any rapid breathing flashing spitting food out sunken belly white stringy poop @suzanneisalive

[suzanneisalive]

On 2/26/2024 at 5:32 PM, Colu said:

What were your water parameters when it first started showing symptoms how long have you had the loach before onset of symptoms any rapid breathing flashing spitting food out sunken belly white stringy poop @suzanneisalive

I don't remember the specific parameters but the pH was lower than it usually is, ammonia levels were slightly elevated along with nitrate and nitrite, but weren't so high that any other fish were showing any symptoms, I have had the loach for 3 years, (introduced a new plant somewhat recently before symptoms started but I did a hydrogen peroxide dip to try to avoid any parasites getting into the tank) I haven't noticed any white stringy poop or a sunken belly although she did look a little bit bloated up until the past couple of days. As for spitting out food-- loaches tend to spit out food (especially the peas I've been giving them) and then they eat it again so yes I have noticed that, but she is still eating.

[suzanneisalive]

On 2/26/2024 at 5:32 PM, Colu said:

What were your water parameters when it first started showing symptoms how long have you had the loach before onset of symptoms any rapid breathing flashing spitting food out sunken belly white stringy poop @suzanneisalive

Oh and as for rapid breathing she has been breathing a little rapid, and is making really weird twitching motions with her head. 

[Colu]

On 2/27/2024 at 4:30 AM, suzanneisalive said:

Oh and as for rapid breathing she has been breathing a little rapid, and is making really weird twitching motions with her head. 

Given the length of time you had the fish before onset of symptoms a parasitic infections is unlikely unless you added any new fish recently  if you haven't I would stop treating with prazipro and metroplex what are you feeding  and how often as over feeding can cause the stomach to put pressure on the swim bladder any loss of colour 

[Guppysnail]

@dasaltemelosguy described similiar behavior. They get air trapped and then fart to expell. I’ll ask him to explain better. 

[suzanneisalive]

On 2/27/2024 at 3:28 AM, Colu said:

Given the length of time you had the fish before onset of symptoms a parasitic infections is unlikely unless you added any new fish recently  if you haven't I would stop treating with prazipro and metroplex what are you feeding  and how often as over feeding can cause the stomach to put pressure on the swim bladder any loss of colour 

Shoot. I think you're right, I had a feeling it wasn't a parasite because I've had her so long & haven't introduced new fish but the people at the aquarium store who gave me advice seemed so sure-- I'll stop the prazipro and metroplex right now.

We've been feeding them normal fish flakes and occasionally veggies and algae pellets. Since she's become sick I've read that the flakes might be to blame since they absorb water and then cause blockages. Is there a type of food that you'd recommend I switch to? I've read that soaking the fish flakes prior to feeding may also help. I have been feeding them very little since she got sick because I was worried it wasn't actually a parasite and read you should let them fast for a few days if it's a blockage-- I've only fed them cooked & peeled peas and a very small amount of fish flakes once every couple days, that pretty much only gets eaten by the other loaches & guorami since they are more mobile than the sick loach. So basically she has only eaten peas in the past 6 days. 

A couple questions/options I am considering for next steps:

- Should I move her to an isolation tank and start treatment for bacterial infection of the swim bladder? Or is it too late for this to help? 😞

- Should I just stop the fish flakes, continue doing water changes to keep the water quality perfect and hope it resolves on its own?

- Should I leave her in the tank she's in and treat that tank with bacterial infection meds? If so, how many 40% water changes do you think I should do before the prazipro/metroplex is completely out of the tank and won't react negatively with the bacterial infection meds?

- If she doesn't get better, how long should I wait before it will be cruel to keep her alive/ or can she live with a good quality of life with some swim bladder issues? I don't want her to be suffering, but I also don't want to euthanize her if there's any chance she can get better or live a good life with some mobility issues.

On 2/27/2024 at 6:07 AM, Guppysnail said:

@dasaltemelosguy described similiar behavior. They get air trapped and then fart to expell. I’ll ask him to explain better. 

Ah! If you can post a link to the post in which he talked about this please do, or if you can ask him to send me a message or reply to this post that would be awesome. Thanks so much.

[Guppysnail]

Tagging @dasaltemelosguy here is the same as asking for a reply.  I do not think it was a post he spoke of the gas issue. I think it was an off forum conversation we had.  I know he is very busy so isn’t in the forum daily. 
I cannot give any advice on dojo loaches. I have never owned them.  Do some internet searches on dojo loach gas -farting- and helping them to release the gas.  

[Colu]

On 2/27/2024 at 11:41 PM, suzanneisalive said:

Shoot. I think you're right, I had a feeling it wasn't a parasite because I've had her so long & haven't introduced new fish but the people at the aquarium store who gave me advice seemed so sure-- I'll stop the prazipro and metroplex right now.

We've been feeding them normal fish flakes and occasionally veggies and algae pellets. Since she's become sick I've read that the flakes might be to blame since they absorb water and then cause blockages. Is there a type of food that you'd recommend I switch to? I've read that soaking the fish flakes prior to feeding may also help. I have been feeding them very little since she got sick because I was worried it wasn't actually a parasite and read you should let them fast for a few days if it's a blockage-- I've only fed them cooked & peeled peas and a very small amount of fish flakes once every couple days, that pretty much only gets eaten by the other loaches & guorami since they are more mobile than the sick loach. So basically she has only eaten peas in the past 6 days. 

A couple questions/options I am considering for next steps:

- Should I move her to an isolation tank and start treatment for bacterial infection of the swim bladder? Or is it too late for this to help? 😞

- Should I just stop the fish flakes, continue doing water changes to keep the water quality perfect and hope it resolves on its own?

- Should I leave her in the tank she's in and treat that tank with bacterial infection meds? If so, how many 40% water changes do you think I should do before the prazipro/metroplex is completely out of the tank and won't react negatively with the bacterial infection meds?

- If she doesn't get better, how long should I wait before it will be cruel to keep her alive/ or can she live with a good quality of life with some swim bladder issues? I don't want her to be suffering, but I also don't want to euthanize her if there's any chance she can get better or live a good life with some mobility issues.

Ah! If you can post a link to the post in which he talked about this please do, or if you can ask him to send me a message or reply to this post that would be awesome. Thanks so much.

Dojo loach predominantly eat insect larvae and snails ideal diet would be frozen or live blood worms black worms daphnia pest snails hikari sinking wafers Xtreme community swim bladder can be caused by a number of things such as the fish over eating and the stomach putting pressure on the swim bladder a bacterial infections of the swim bladder an injury or parasitic infections what i would do is quarantine and do a course of kanaplex  as to your other question on how long to wait that all depends on quality of life would do the course of kanaplex feed frozen or live daphnia for the next week then give an update and add a small amount of epsom salt 1 table spoon for 10 gallons as epsom salt acts as a muscle relaxant to help relieve pressure on the swim bladder at that level it won't harm your loach

[dasaltemelosguy]

Hi @suzanneisalive, 

I've had dojos for about 4 years, raised from juveniles. When I first got them, while in QT, a vicious, fast-moving infection tore through them and @Colu helped me medicate them. During the course of antibiotics, they all developed a similar issue with constipation and buoyancy.  Unable to sink, unable to stay upright, and I may be anthropomorphizing here, but they looked terribly uncomfortable. 

 

With 6 of them unable to sink or swim normally, I used the Epsom salt bath which worked on one but not the other 5.  I did some research on using vibration devices for impaction on fish and spoke with @Odd Duck about it. She had mentioned also that she has seen similar devices work for sand impaction in, I believe, axolotls (but I don't actually remember what the specific creature was). 

 

When I used the Epsom salt alone, at least with dojos and with one silver dollar, I had mixed results. For one, it seems to greatly irritate the dojos. I don't know if that has anything to do with being scaleless or they were just so sick. 

 

However, when I combined the Epsom salt with the device below, the dojos released an incredible amount of fecal matter overnight. The following day, you could see the swelling had reduced and the buoyancy issue was gone. 

 

However, two of them died anyway so it was inconclusive. Of course, it could have been too advanced, or the prior infection may have done damage as well. But I can tell you that it "emptied" them out and rectified the buoyancy issue. 

 

What I am still mystified over is the 'psychological' effect the vibration had on them. I've since seen this with a sick German Blue Ram and a silver dollar. It renders a calm across the tank and in fact, some of the fish make an effort to stay or 'hug' the vibrator. 

 

Dojos seem prone to this issue. Ever since, once a week I soak the entire tank's food in Garlic Guard with a teaspoon of Epsom salts dissolved in it and I've not seen this issue since. 

 

I'm sorry I have no more than anecdotes for you, but this is what I used to the mixed results cited above:

 

Mini Facial & Eye Massage Ball Portable Travel Pocket USB Rechargeable Skin Care Massage Tool

 

Here are two links that may prove helpful. The first is a better alternative to sterilizing your plants in the future:

 

 

And this is a short piece on the potential benefits of vibrational therapy: 

 

Good luck.