Its Got To Be The 13+ Year Old Gravel

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/28/2024 at 7:51 PM, Cincala said:

Should I hold off on tank maintenance/ water changes until after treatment?

After treatment with peroxide you would have highly oxygenated water.  It would be good to do the maintenance before, give the tank a little while, and then do the treatment as normal.  If you haven't seen it, here's a video regarding the method.

 

On 1/23/2024 at 2:37 PM, Cincala said:

This past year I have been having a very bad issue with algae and some kind of black gunk that wipes off with your finger on the top stems of plants, and now all over my the gravel!  
I started using Seachem Pristine, seems to help with the plants but now the gravel is covered in black gunk.

I would assume it's a type of fungus from the plants rotting or the organics (wood) and other things rotting.  I'll drop another video and maybe it would give you some insight into how much "junk" can be there.
 

You can see a lot of dark stuff in this substrate as well.  The gravel makes it hard for the fish to get any food that drops down there and that leads to rot.  Siphoning well, having really good circulation at the substrate level helps.  The stuff you have is pretty chunky. Compared to "aquarium gravel" it has a lot larger gaps and doesn't compress as much.  The compression is actually a good thing in some cases.



Seachem pristine is a bacteria, I assume, similar to what they use for waste management facilities to break down waste.  That is supposed to make it easier for the filter to then filter it out of the water.  From their website:

It provides bacteria that break down excess food, waste and detritus in freshwater and marine systems. It will also reduce excess nutrients (e.g. ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites) that may fuel the growth of nuisance and disease-causing organisms. The bacteria species in Pristine™ thrive in fresh or salt water and can utilize a wide range of organic compounds, including fats that can cause unsightly films. Unlike traditional nitrifying bacteria, this bacterial blend can adapt to harsh or low oxygen environments and continue to multiply and improve water conditions. Biopolymers produced by established bacterial colonies trap particulates and increase water clarity.

Basically, whatever was on some of the surfaces, buried in the substrate, that got manipulated out and is just waiting to be siphoned out or cleaned out.  It's bacteria at some level growing.  If it is an algae, then whatever the bacteria did, fed that algae, which is really common with red algae (BBA) which tends to thrive on dying organics.  I have had it migrate from wood to plants to glass, silicone, plastics, down to the substrate itself. 

Edited January 29 by nabokovfan87

[Tanked]

On 1/28/2024 at 10:51 PM, Cincala said:

Very informative and interesting info!
 Going to try the hydrogen peroxide tomorrow. Dosing the whole tank. 
A 36 gallon aquarium should take about 3 1/2 tablespoons.
Should I hold off on tank maintenance/ water changes until after treatment?  

I want to do the Reverse Respiration on the plants instead of spraying the peroxide on them. I’ll leave them in the tank for now. I will spray peroxide on the Mopani wood, it’s out of the tank.
I heard of Reverse Respiration about a year ago, on this site! Now, I get to try it!

I’m going back to water changes twice a week when I deep vacuum, and dimming my lights.
I hope the peroxide treatment clears the black gunk off the gravel! 
 

The peroxide will decay and become water. I would do your water change after the treatment.  Any algae killed or dislodged will go with the old water.  Some people use a pipette or a syringe for dosing.  I spray mine through a piece of tubing connected to the trigger sprayer.  A trigger sprayer used under water will eventually dilute the peroxide  

My 55 has a recurring BBA problem.  Before I replied to you, I liberally sprayed the plants, fish fence and large lava rock. An hour or so later the back wall had taken on a reddish tint, even though I had not sprayed it. The algae on the lava rock had also gone from black to a reddish brown, and the barbs were picking at it.

These treatments will not remove the algae or gunk. They will only kill/damage it.   Whole tank treatment killed off my staghorn algae, but it required multiple treatments.  If you can get the algae under control, your clean up crew and maintenance will do the rest.  In a different tank I have three pink quartz rocks.  They are normally covered with a solid black coat of algae.  The SD's like to graze on it occasionally.  After introducing the SAEs, the rocks remain about 95% clear. 

I have limited experience with RR. and I don't remember if it removed algae.  One thing for sure is to use a product that is labeled Seltzer Water.  Sparkling water products won't work as well.

Remember that your algae killing efforts may show progress tomorrow.  Efforts to prevent algae will take weeks.

[Cincala]

On 1/29/2024 at 11:40 AM, Tanked said:

The peroxide will decay and become water. I would do your water change after the treatment.  Any algae killed or dislodged will go with the old water.  Some people use a pipette or a syringe for dosing.  I spray mine through a piece of tubing connected to the trigger sprayer.  A trigger sprayer used under water will eventually dilute the peroxide  

My 55 has a recurring BBA problem.  Before I replied to you, I liberally sprayed the plants, fish fence and large lava rock. An hour or so later the back wall had taken on a reddish tint, even though I had not sprayed it. The algae on the lava rock had also gone from black to a reddish brown, and the barbs were picking at it.

These treatments will not remove the algae or gunk. They will only kill/damage it.   Whole tank treatment killed off my staghorn algae, but it required multiple treatments.  If you can get the algae under control, your clean up crew and maintenance will do the rest.  In a different tank I have three pink quartz rocks.  They are normally covered with a solid black coat of algae.  The SD's like to graze on it occasionally.  After introducing the SAEs, the rocks remain about 95% clear. 

I have limited experience with RR. and I don't remember if it removed algae.  One thing for sure is to use a product that is labeled Seltzer Water.  Sparkling water products won't work as well.

Remember that your algae killing efforts may show progress tomorrow.  Efforts to prevent algae will take weeks.

Didn’t do the peroxide treatment yesterday! I deep vacuumed/removed gravel, and cut down/removed plants. There’s not much left of the plants. I’m still doing the peroxide treatment today, I really hope it works fast!  
I will be using a syringe, I don’t know what a trigger sprayer is!

My new Red Tiger Lotus bulbs arrived today, I ordered 2 and received 4. The rest of the new plants will arrive this week. I have to get the lotus bulbs in the tank, can’t quarantine them. 

 I’m ordering some SAEs, they will ship overnight. I’ll hold off on ordering them, until after treatment.

Here’s are some pics of the aquarium now! Some of my fish are hiding.

[Cincala]

On 1/29/2024 at 12:52 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

After treatment with peroxide you would have highly oxygenated water.  It would be good to do the maintenance before, give the tank a little while, and then do the treatment as normal.  If you haven't seen it, here's a video regarding the method.

 

I would assume it's a type of fungus from the plants rotting or the organics (wood) and other things rotting.  I'll drop another video and maybe it would give you some insight into how much "junk" can be there.
 

You can see a lot of dark stuff in this substrate as well.  The gravel makes it hard for the fish to get any food that drops down there and that leads to rot.  Siphoning well, having really good circulation at the substrate level helps.  The stuff you have is pretty chunky. Compared to "aquarium gravel" it has a lot larger gaps and doesn't compress as much.  The compression is actually a good thing in some cases.



Seachem pristine is a bacteria, I assume, similar to what they use for waste management facilities to break down waste.  That is supposed to make it easier for the filter to then filter it out of the water.  From their website:

It provides bacteria that break down excess food, waste and detritus in freshwater and marine systems. It will also reduce excess nutrients (e.g. ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites) that may fuel the growth of nuisance and disease-causing organisms. The bacteria species in Pristine™ thrive in fresh or salt water and can utilize a wide range of organic compounds, including fats that can cause unsightly films. Unlike traditional nitrifying bacteria, this bacterial blend can adapt to harsh or low oxygen environments and continue to multiply and improve water conditions. Biopolymers produced by established bacterial colonies trap particulates and increase water clarity.

Basically, whatever was on some of the surfaces, buried in the substrate, that got manipulated out and is just waiting to be siphoned out or cleaned out.  It's bacteria at some level growing.  If it is an algae, then whatever the bacteria did, fed that algae, which is really common with red algae (BBA) which tends to thrive on dying organics.  I have had it migrate from wood to plants to glass, silicone, plastics, down to the substrate itself. 

This is very informative!
Thanks for the videos! I didn’t know fish would eat from a glass dish. I only use it for feeding my shrimp. 
I also didn’t know Mopani wood rotted. I pulled all the pieces from the aquarium, because they kept getting covered in slimy black gunk. I actually thought the wood was the problem!

 I stopped using Pristine, it might have helped clean it, but it made everything look worse!
I will be doing the peroxide treatment today. Yesterday, I gutted the aquarium, deep vacuumed, removed more gravel, and trashed plants. 
 

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/29/2024 at 9:57 PM, Cincala said:

Didn’t do the peroxide treatment yesterday! I deep vacuumed/removed gravel, and cut down/removed plants. There’s not much left of the plants. I’m still doing the peroxide treatment today, I really hope it works fast!  
I will be using a syringe, I don’t know what a trigger sprayer is!

My new Red Tiger Lotus bulbs arrived today, I ordered 2 and received 4. The rest of the new plants will arrive this week. I have to get the lotus bulbs in the tank, can’t quarantine them. 

 I’m ordering some SAEs, they will ship overnight. I’ll hold off on ordering them, until after treatment.

Here’s are some pics of the aquarium now! Some of my fish are hiding.

Looks like you're dealing with BBA taking hold.  Just a note.

 

On 1/29/2024 at 10:28 PM, Cincala said:

I also didn’t know Mopani wood rotted. I pulled all the pieces from the aquarium, because they kept getting covered in slimy black gunk. I actually thought the wood was the problem!

Mopani is wonderful! It's one of my favorites.  Please feel free to put it back in.  If you ever have an issue with the surface of it, you just pull it out, take a sponge like you would use for dishes (new one, unused, fish use only) and you just scrub the surface of the wood and rinse it off with the hose in the yard.  I probably do that maybe once a year?  I've had mopani in the tanks for going on 9+ years at this point because it's just what the big box stores love to have in stock.

[Tanked]

A trigger sprayer is that plastic pump spray bottle your window cleaner comes in.  With luck you can find a pint size bottle for about $2.00   I have one each for peroxide and vinegar; both have uses in the home and around the aquarium.

The aquarium looks much better.  If you have the space and time, and you haven't discarded the other plants,  you may be able to treat and rejuvenate some of them.  

[Cincala]

On 1/30/2024 at 1:46 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Looks like you're dealing with BBA taking hold.  Just a note.

 

Mopani is wonderful! It's one of my favorites.  Please feel free to put it back in.  If you ever have an issue with the surface of it, you just pull it out, take a sponge like you would use for dishes (new one, unused, fish use only) and you just scrub the surface of the wood and rinse it off with the hose in the yard.  I probably do that maybe once a year?  I've had mopani in the tanks for going on 9+ years at this point because it's just what the big box stores love to have in stock.

Thanks! I will do that. I have the wood in a bucket of water right now. I was going to trash it! I have new sponges.
That’s a beautiful tank!

[Cincala]

On 1/30/2024 at 11:18 AM, Tanked said:

A trigger sprayer is that plastic pump spray bottle your window cleaner comes in.  With luck you can find a pint size bottle for about $2.00   I have one each for peroxide and vinegar; both have uses in the home and around the aquarium.

The aquarium looks much better.  If you have the space and time, and you haven't discarded the other plants,  you may be able to treat and rejuvenate some of them.  

Ok! I have a few of those. I have one that size, I use it to water mist my succulents.

Too late for the plants, I trashed them. The rest of new ones arrived this morning, and my shrimp tank is over grown with plants I can transfer over. The new plants will go in an Alum soak for now.

3 1/2 tbsp. of peroxide is not a lot, should I mix it with a little tank water in order to spray it?  
Will this get rid of BBA as well?

[Tanked]

On 1/30/2024 at 12:43 PM, Cincala said:

Ok! I have a few of those. I have one that size, I use it to water mist my succulents.

Too late for the plants, I trashed them. The rest of new ones arrived this morning, and my shrimp tank is over grown with plants I can transfer over. The new plants will go in an Alum soak for now.

3 1/2 tbsp. of peroxide is not a lot, should I mix it with a little tank water in order to spray it?  
Will this get rid of BBA as well?

I've read where you should dilute it, but for the life of me, I can't see the purpose.  Like you said, it isn't a lot.  I spray straight H2O2 on the aquarium plants in and out of the aquarium.  Fun Fact: If you use the spray bottle underwater, it will dilute the peroxide in the bottle.

Straight H2O2 will kill BBA.  You might not get it all on the first treatment.  In 1-24 hours the dead algae will change color, usually red.  As I mentioned early on, I don't use any of the other products.  Peroxide (H2O2) is super cheap and plant safe to use.

My single experience with Alum wasn't good.  I can't prove it, but I blame it for the 2020 Great Hornwort Apocalypse. 😬  The next time I quarantine, I will use the RR method.

[Cincala]

On 1/30/2024 at 1:26 PM, Tanked said:

I've read where you should dilute it, but for the life of me, I can't see the purpose.  Like you said, it isn't a lot.  I spray straight H2O2 on the aquarium plants in and out of the aquarium.  Fun Fact: If you use the spray bottle underwater, it will dilute the peroxide in the bottle.

Straight H2O2 will kill BBA.  You might not get it all on the first treatment.  In 1-24 hours the dead algae will change color, usually red.  As I mentioned early on, I don't use any of the other products.  Peroxide (H2O2) is super cheap and plant safe to use.

My single experience with Alum wasn't good.  I can't prove it, but I blame it for the 2020 Great Hornwort Apocalypse. 😬  The next time I quarantine, I will use the RR method.

Ok! I’ll use the spray bottle under water.  
I have used Alum for years on all my new plants, and never had a problem! It’s the only thing I use. 
Getting started with the peroxide treatment right now!

[Cincala]

On 1/30/2024 at 1:42 PM, Cincala said:

Ok! I’ll use the spray bottle under water.  
I have used Alum for years on all my new plants, and never had a problem! It’s the only thing I use. 
Getting started with the peroxide treatment right now!

Should I do a water change right after the treatment, like an hour after?

[Tanked]

On 1/30/2024 at 2:12 PM, Cincala said:

Should I do a water change right after the treatment, like an hour after?

Your option.  Peroxide brakes down to water and oxygen, so after a couple of hours, it is gone.  I think I would wait, let the peroxide to continue its work, and then maybe take a toothbrush to the tough spots and perform your maintenance.

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/30/2024 at 9:43 AM, Cincala said:

3 1/2 tbsp. of peroxide is not a lot, should I mix it with a little tank water in order to spray it?  
Will this get rid of BBA as well?

Follow the Mark's shrimp tanks method. He does premix it. Yes.

On 1/30/2024 at 11:12 AM, Cincala said:

Should I do a water change right after the treatment, like an hour after?

No. The results of using the peroxide is water + oxygen.

[Cincala]

On 1/30/2024 at 3:09 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Follow the Mark's shrimp tanks method. He does premix it. Yes.

No. The results of using the peroxide is water + oxygen.

Ok! I should wait until tomorrow and then do a 50% water change to clean the debris?
I did follow the video and mixed with aquarium water ( my sprayer doesn’t want to work ). My timer is set for 1 hour. There is no mention of a water change in the video.

[nabokovfan87]

Basically give it half a day I would think. Some of the stuff will be removed by the filter. Other stuff some of the fish might eat.

You can do a water change whenever you would like to, if you feel the need to.  I would just do it during Normal maintenance.

[Cincala]

On 1/30/2024 at 2:43 PM, Tanked said:

Your option.  Peroxide brakes down to water and oxygen, so after a couple of hours, it is gone.  I think I would wait, let the peroxide to continue its work, and then maybe take a toothbrush to the tough spots and perform your maintenance.

I couldn’t use the sprayer method, as my sprayer decided not to work!  
I used the info from a video I was sent. Mark’s shrimp tanks method, using some aquarium water mixed with the peroxide. You leave it 1 hour and then turn the filter back on and the light. I did take all the sponges out.

I’m going to wait until tomorrow (if that’s not too long) and do a 50% water change for clean up! 
I can check for tough spots tomorrow, put my new plants in, and my mopani wood back!

On 1/30/2024 at 3:58 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Basically give it half a day I would think. Some of the stuff will be removed by the filter. Other stuff some of the fish might eat.

You can do a water change whenever you would like to, if you feel the need to.  I would just do it during Normal maintenance.

Thanks! 
I’ll wait and see what the tank looks like tomorrow!
My timer just went off, so I will turn everything back on!

[Cincala]

On 1/30/2024 at 4:15 PM, Cincala said:

I couldn’t use the sprayer method, as my sprayer decided not to work!  
I used the info from a video I was sent. Mark’s shrimp tanks method, using some aquarium water mixed with the peroxide. You leave it 1 hour and then turn the filter back on and the light. I did take all the sponges out.

I’m going to wait until tomorrow (if that’s not too long) and do a 50% water change for clean up! 
I can check for tough spots tomorrow, put my new plants in, and my mopani wood back!

Thanks! 
I’ll wait and see what the tank looks like tomorrow!
My timer just went off, so I will turn everything back on!

The h2o2 treatment cleared some of the algae. Aquarium looks better, but I will have to do another treatment. 
I tested the parameters today, and got a big surprise! Aquarium co op test strips were not wrong. There is no Nitrate in the tank! The API test kit shows the same results.

API Test Kit -

PH - 7.6, PH-H - 7.3, Ammonia - 0, Nitrite - 0, Nitrate - 5-10, GH - 17, KH - 4, Phosphorus - 0-0.15, TDS - 580 ( meter won’t calibrate right), I have a new one coming in.

Aquarium Co Op Test -

Nitrate - 0, Nitrite - 0, GH - 300, KH - 40, PH - 68. 

 Couldn’t do a water change today, so I did a full dose of Easy Green ( because it brings nitrates up ) and put a bag of Peat in the filter.

Since I will be doing the h2o2 treatment again, I might as well put in my new plants first.  My fish have no hiding places anymore.

Tomorrow I will be doing a 50% water change, deep gravel vacuum, and adding the new plants.

Should I do another full dose of Easy Green tomorrow, and when should I do the h2o2 treatment again? 
Here are pics of the tank now, you can still see some algae!

[Tanked]

Opinions on 3% H2O2 treatments vary.  It is generally accepted that waiting a minimum of 24 hours between treatments is safe, and treatments may need to be repeated 3 or 4 times.

If your tests are still showing 0 nitrates, I would use a full dose.

[Cincala]

On 2/1/2024 at 11:24 AM, Tanked said:

Opinions on 3% H2O2 treatments vary.  It is generally accepted that waiting a minimum of 24 hours between treatments is safe, and treatments may need to be repeated 3 or 4 times.

If your tests are still showing 0 nitrates, I would use a full dose.

Thanks for all your help and advice! I appreciate it!!

[johnnyxxl]

On 1/27/2024 at 5:27 PM, Cincala said:

Thank you! Glad to hear the gravel is not a problem, and I knew I didn’t see cyanobacteria!  What I called black mud, I thought it might be mulm or some kind of algae. It seemed to build up more using Pristine.

My nitrates are 0-10 using aquarium co op test strips, API test kit always has the nitrates at 20 or over.  I only use aquarium co op strips, when in a hurry.

I plan on getting one  or two SAEs and a Bristlenose pleco, but I want to wait until I get a handle on things.

The Anubia is new and so is the Red Flame Sword ( the one behind the anubia). The sword has red, green, and brown leaves. The red leaves faded to brown. I removed the damaged leaves and now it’s in its planter. It is really a beautiful plant, when all the colors are there.
 I have been deep cleaning the gravel and changing the water, every other day.
I have changed the lighting a few times. Right now I am using a Nicrew 24/7. I have Hygger 24/7, 2 Beamsworks, and a Fluval Stingray. Can’t find the best one.

How do you use Hydrogen Peroxide? Do you dip the plants in it, or pour it in the aquarium? This is a 36 gallon bow front.  
I read somewhere online, that blackouts don’t work on staghorn algae.

 

I thought the test strips were good that's why I ordered them 

[Cincala]

On 2/24/2024 at 11:33 PM, johnnyxxl said:

I thought the test strips were good that's why I ordered them 

Be careful with the test strips! I would use API test for Nitrate. I’m not using the test strips anymore, not worth it! API gives me an accurate test. Be sure your test strips are not bad, even if the date is current! Going back to Excel, etc.

I am still having a bad problem with bba and this black gunky, sticky stuff on the top of my plants and especially on the substrate ( it does not vacuum off). Can’t seem to get rid of it! 
It gets worse when using Easy Green and Easy Carbon doesn’t seem to work at all!

I have tried H2O2 treatments in and out of the aquarium, plant hair turns red for a day or two, and then back to the way it was. I have had great advice from people on this site but, I guess nobody has what I have!

 I have tried everything and nothing seems to be working! There is an imbalance of something in this tank, and I am going crazy trying to find it!

 I never had problems like this, I have had 7+ years Salt water tanks and 13+ years Freshwater tanks. This is beyond my expertise!