Goldfish has red bump and white dot appearing.

[Colu]

On 12/24/2023 at 9:34 PM, Supermassive said:

@Colu I have Seachem Stress Guard. I looked it up and it has methylene blue in it and glutaral. Would that be okay to use with the salt like you described? 

Yes you could try that 

[Supermassive]

@Colu I'm going to get an air pump tomorrow and quarantine him. He's around 3.5 inches. What is the least amount of water you would put him in? Also since its going to be a fresh setup with no filter how do I prevent ammonia and nitrite from building up? Should I get a sponge filter for the air pump? Should I do any water changes during the two weeks?

I'm also going to look for some clove oil in case he only continues to get worse. Is it a particular kind of clove oil or just the essential oil stuff?

[Colu]

On 12/25/2023 at 6:41 PM, Supermassive said:

@Colu I'm going to get an air pump tomorrow and quarantine him. He's around 3.5 inches. What is the least amount of water you would put him in? Also since its going to be a fresh setup with no filter how do I prevent ammonia and nitrite from building up? Should I get a sponge filter for the air pump? Should I do any water changes during the two weeks?

I'm also going to look for some clove oil in case he only continues to get worse. Is it a particular kind of clove oil or just the essential oil stuff?

Minimum would be about 10 gallons I would get a sponge filter. if you can add some cycled media from your main tank that will help prevent ammonia and nitrite spikes.  I would fast for a couple of days test daily do a water change if you detect any ammonia or nitrite. aquarium salt is only removed through water changes so if you do a 1 gallon water change add 1 table spoon of salt back and dose the appropriate amount of stress Guard back 

[Supermassive]

On 12/25/2023 at 1:58 PM, Colu said:

Minimum would be about 10 gallons I would get a sponge filter. if you can add some cycled media from your main tank that will help prevent ammonia and nitrite spikes.  I would fast for a couple of days test daily do a water change if you detect any ammonia or nitrite. aquarium salt is only removed through water changes so if you do a 1 gallon water change add 1 table spoon of salt back and dose the appropriate amount of stress Guard back

Okay I'll get a sponge filter and put some media from the tank in. 

Thanks for all the info. I'll let you know how things go.

Merry Christmas/Happy holidays.

[Supermassive]

@Colu Its been two weeks. One side of his body is still swollen and he still has some abscesses coming up. He hasn't improved much if at all. I've been struggling to get the tank to cycle though. I keep reading ammonia and I'm doing over 50% water changes every 2-3 days and adding a lot of Seachem Stability. I'm using Seachem Prime to detoxify the ammonia. I poured a bunch of stability directly on the sponge filter when I first set up the tank and have been adding more every day but it refuses to cycle. And I added about a third of the ceramic media from the main tank when I first set up the QT tank. Idk why it wont cycle. Will that much salt kill BB?

Idk what else I should do. Since I haven't been able to cycle the tank yet should I wait until it actually cycles then do another two weeks in the salt with Stressguard?

[Colu]

On 1/8/2024 at 4:42 PM, Supermassive said:

@Colu Its been two weeks. One side of his body is still swollen and he still has some abscesses coming up. He hasn't improved much if at all. I've been struggling to get the tank to cycle though. I keep reading ammonia and I'm doing over 50% water changes every 2-3 days and adding a lot of Seachem Stability. I'm using Seachem Prime to detoxify the ammonia. I poured a bunch of stability directly on the sponge filter when I first set up the tank and have been adding more every day but it refuses to cycle. And I added about a third of the ceramic media from the main tank when I first set up the QT tank. Idk why it wont cycle. Will that much salt kill BB?

Idk what else I should do. Since I haven't been able to cycle the tank yet should I wait until it actually cycles then do another two weeks in the salt with Stressguard?

Salt can slow down the growth of beneficial bacteria with the body still swollen and he still has abscess   I would speak to a vet to try and get  some antibiotic medication that would be the best option the salt doesn't seem to be having much of an effect so I would water change it out and try to get the tank fully cycled 

[Supermassive]

@Colu I did a 60% WC this morning with no salt and poured some more stability on the filter and also added the Stressguard.

I talked to a vet when my betta had parasites and they weren't able to help. I can call some other ones. Id be surprised if any of them have fish medication. Is it a specific antibiotic or would I just ask for any antibiotic for fish?

I do have 5 packs of maracyn left which is enough for one treatment on the QT tank. Should I do that once the tank is cycled?

[Colu]

On 1/9/2024 at 7:10 PM, Supermassive said:

@Colu I did a 60% WC this morning with no salt and poured some more stability on the filter and also added the Stressguard.

I talked to a vet when my betta had parasites and they weren't able to help. I can call some other ones. Id be surprised if any of them have fish medication. Is it a specific antibiotic or would I just ask for any antibiotic for fish?

I do have 5 packs of maracyn left which is enough for one treatment on the QT tank. Should I do that once the tank is cycled?

I would use the last of your maracyn if your still seeing no improvement You would want to get holed of another  broad spectrum antibiotic treatment with a different active ingredient such as minocycline doxcycline or kanamycin sulfate 

Edited January 9 by Colu

[Supermassive]

@Colu He keeps getting worse. I think I will have to euthanize him at some point. He is quite bloated and he continues to get abscesses. And now there are small black areas showing up on his fins and one of his gill flaps is gray and it looks recessed. And the places where the abscesses rupture on his body turn a dark gray or black color. He is still active when I go to look at him and he's been eating so he doesn't seem to be suffering yet. I keep doing water changes and adding stability and prime. I've also been adding the stressguard and 1 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons.

[Colu]

On 1/15/2024 at 8:06 PM, Supermassive said:

@Colu He keeps getting worse. I think I will have to euthanize him at some point. He is quite bloated and he continues to get abscesses. And now there are small black areas showing up on his fins and one of his gill flaps is gray and it looks recessed. And the places where the abscesses rupture on his body turn a dark gray or black color. He is still active when I go to look at him and he's been eating so he doesn't seem to be suffering yet. I keep doing water changes and adding stability and prime. I've also been adding the stressguard and 1 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons.

If your still seeing no signs of improvement and he's getting worse even after another course of maracyn  you could try and get holed of one of the other antibiotic medication I mentioned if it gets to the point were you think he's suffering I would humanely euthanize with clove oil 

Edited January 15 by Colu

[Supermassive]

@Colu I've done a bit of googling and read some things that suggest it could be an internal parasite. The maracyn and salt didn't seem to help so does that seem possible to you?

I took some more photos today. You can see the dark areas on his fins and body. Also hes been having really long stringy clear bowel movements hanging from him. And the tank still wont cycle and I'm still managing ammonia.

 

[Colu]

On 1/18/2024 at 7:06 PM, Supermassive said:

@Colu I've done a bit of googling and read some things that suggest it could be an internal parasite. The maracyn and salt didn't seem to help so does that seem possible to you?

I took some more photos today. You can see the dark areas on his fins and body. Also hes been having really long stringy clear bowel movements hanging from him. And the tank still wont cycle and I'm still managing ammonia.

 

The black marks are caused by ammonia looks like he has some pineconing with the lump and abscesses  its had I would say it has an internal bacterial infections or it had an  abscess that caused a secondary bacterial infection its possible two thing are going such as bacterial and parasitic infection clear poop can just mean it's not been eating and it's passing mucus lining any rapid breathing hanging out near the surface lethargy flashing spitting food out sunken belly 

[Supermassive]

On 1/18/2024 at 5:27 PM, Colu said:

any rapid breathing hanging out near the surface lethargy flashing spitting food out sunken belly 

No rapid breathing or hanging out near the surface. Maybe a little lethargic. Most of the time he is hanging out in the middle of the water just sitting there. He comes to get food when I go up to check on him. He eats when I feed him but hes eating a lot less than normal. I haven't noticed any flashing. I cant really get a good look at his belly. He isn't in a clear container so I can only see him from the top.

[Colu]

On 1/18/2024 at 10:42 PM, Supermassive said:

No rapid breathing or hanging out near the surface. Maybe a little lethargic. Most of the time he is hanging out in the middle of the water just sitting there. He comes to get food when I go up to check on him. He eats when I feed him but hes eating a lot less than normal. I haven't noticed any flashing. I cant really get a good look at his belly. He isn't in a clear container so I can only see him from the top.

He's not got a lot of the symptoms I described other than being lethargic that could be caused by a bacterial infection parasitic infection is unlikely 

[Supermassive]

@Colu Do you think if I can get the tank cycled and keep the water really clean there is any chance he will recover? I've still been adding 1tbs of salt per 5 gallons. Will that amount of salt also inhibit beneficial bacteria? I've used a ton of stability at this point and it seems like it does nothing.

[Colu]

On 1/18/2024 at 10:58 PM, Supermassive said:

@Colu Do you think if I can get the tank cycled and keep the water really clean there is any chance he will recover? I've still been adding 1tbs of salt per 5 gallons. Will that amount of salt also inhibit beneficial bacteria? I've used a ton of stability at this point and it seems like it does nothing.

Getting the tank cycled will help  he will. It probably need more treatment with a more broad spectrum antibiotic treatment. salt at that level shouldn't inhibit  the growth of your benefial bacterial. you could also add some Indian almond leaves as they have antibacterial and antifungal properties you might have to add one leaf per gallon to get a beneficial effect. what I would do is test daily. if you see any ammonia or nitrite do a 50% water changes and add a double dose of prime to help detoxify any ammonia or nitrite till it constantly stays at zero. you can keep adding in the bottled bacteria  it won't hurt. 

Edited January 19 by Colu

[Supermassive]

@Colu I wont be able to get more medication. Ill keep doing water changes and using the prime and stressguard. Once the tank is cycled I will get some Indian almond leaves. 

Can fish recover from things like this without proper medication or am I just prolonging the inevitable?

[Colu]

On 1/19/2024 at 12:49 AM, Supermassive said:

@Colu I wont be able to get more medication. Ill keep doing water changes and using the prime and stressguard. Once the tank is cycled I will get some Indian almond leaves. 

Can fish recover from things like this without proper medication or am I just prolonging the inevitable?

It's possible he can recover if his immune system able to fight of the infection I would monitor if you think he's starting to go down hill rapidly then I would humanely euthanize 

[Supermassive]

@Colu I just noticed he did spit all the food out I gave him. First I fed him a some pellets and he only ate a couple of them. I didn't watch to see if he spit them out but most of them were left alone and sank to the bottom. Then I did his water change and treated his tank and he kept coming up like he wanted more food so I gave him a few small flakes. He went to eat all of them but only chewed on them for a few seconds and spit them all out. The food is fresh, only a month old tops. Probably closer to 2 weeks.

Another detail I've noticed is that it seems like he doesn't have much suction power when he goes for food. Sometimes he will go up to the food and open his mouth at it like hes trying to eat it but the food doesn't move and he closes his mouth and swims away like he couldn't get it. Idk if that means anything or if he is just being weird.

[Colu]

On 1/19/2024 at 6:20 PM, Supermassive said:

@Colu I just noticed he did spit all the food out I gave him. First I fed him a some pellets and he only ate a couple of them. I didn't watch to see if he spit them out but most of them were left alone and sank to the bottom. Then I did his water change and treated his tank and he kept coming up like he wanted more food so I gave him a few small flakes. He went to eat all of them but only chewed on them for a few seconds and spit them all out. The food is fresh, only a month old tops. Probably closer to 2 weeks.

Another detail I've noticed is that it seems like he doesn't have much suction power when he goes for food. Sometimes he will go up to the food and open his mouth at it like hes trying to eat it but the food doesn't move and he closes his mouth and swims away like he couldn't get it. Idk if that means anything or if he is just being weird.

It's could be but anti parasitic medication such as praziquantel and levamisole aren't readily available in Canada unless you have access to some from another source 

Edited January 27 by Colu

[Supermassive]

On 1/19/2024 at 6:04 PM, Colu said:

It's could be but anti parasitic medication such as praziquantel and levamisole aren't rl available in Canada unless you have access to some from another source 

After I gave him the flakes I went to check on him 30 minutes to an hour later and all the pellets on the bottom were gone. Ill have to watch more closely when I feed him to see if he keeps spitting out the food.

I actually do have some paracleanse currently.

[Colu]

On 1/19/2024 at 11:22 PM, Supermassive said:

After I gave him the flakes I went to check on him 30 minutes to an hour later and all the pellets on the bottom were gone. Ill have to watch more closely when I feed him to see if he keeps spitting out the food.

I actually do have some paracleanse currently.

I would monitor for next week then give an update before treating with paracleanse 

[Supermassive]

On 1/19/2024 at 6:26 PM, Colu said:

I would monitor for next week then give an update before treating with paracleanse

I just gave him some more pellets and he didn't spit them out. He only ate a few but yeah I think he just didn't care for the flakes. Ill still watch him when hes eating just in case

[Supermassive]

@Colu If I squeeze a dirty cycled sponge into the sponge filter will it cause a big ammonia spike?

[Colu]

On 1/21/2024 at 4:42 PM, Supermassive said:

@Colu If I squeeze a dirty cycled sponge into the sponge filter will it cause a big ammonia spike?

It shouldn't cause an ammonia spike it should help to speed up the cycle