Betta seems to have a white fungus on her side, how to treat?

[velidae]

She's been very lethargic, just sits at the bottom of the tank. Large white spot on each side of her body. Right now I have her in a jar with some aquarium salt and a sponge filter.

Her tankmates aren't showing any signs of illness. I have 5 kuhli loaches, some red cherry shrimp, many snails. I heard scaleless shrimp aren't good with salt, is this true? Can I just add salt to my whole tank? I'm worried if I return her to the tank untreated she could be reinfected. Also, what temperature is best for treatment?

Ph~8, Ammonia and nitrites 0, nitrates ~10-20 ppm

I'm located in Canada if that makes a difference with obtaining treatments.

Edit: while in her quarantine jar, she is now occasionally swimming to the surface to gulp air, then swims back to the bottom and sits there. Never seen this behaviour before. The aquarium has an airstone and she was also laying on the substrate, but never saw her swim to the surface to gulp air. Quarantine jar has an airstone and sponge filter running.

Edited November 17, 2023 by velidae

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/16/2023 at 6:25 PM, velidae said:

Her tankmates aren't showing any signs of illness. I have 5 kuhli loaches, some red cherry shrimp, many snails. I heard scaleless shrimp aren't good with salt, is this true? Can I just add salt to my whole tank? I'm worried if I return her to the tank untreated she could be reinfected. Also, what temperature is best for treatment?

The neocaridina shrimp can handle up to 1 tbsp per 5G of water.  Any higher and I ran into some issues.  I am unsure about the kuhli loaches.

Salt would be a good place to start.  I would treat the betta by itself if you can.  Preferably I would get a sterilite tote that can hold a little bit more water and swimming space as a QT area.   1 tbsp per 2G for just the betta fish as well as adding in some botanicals would be a good place to start.

[velidae]

On 11/16/2023 at 10:07 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

The neocaridina shrimp can handle up to 1 tbsp per 5G of water.  Any higher and I ran into some issues.  I am unsure about the kuhli loaches.

Salt would be a good place to start.  I would treat the betta by itself if you can.  Preferably I would get a sterilite tote that can hold a little bit more water and swimming space as a QT area.   1 tbsp per 2G for just the betta fish as well as adding in some botanicals would be a good place to start.

Thanks for your reply.

I just found this aquarium co op article on using salt, so I'll try this. I did initially move her to a quarantine jar but her new behaviour of gasping at the surface concerns me, so I've moved her back into the main tank and now she is behaving normally again.

I'll follow the Level 1 dosing from the article for the whole tank for now, since it specifically says it should be safe for all fish and cherry shrimp. Hopefully it's enough, but if not then I will revisit a quarantine tank.

[Colu]

On 11/17/2023 at 3:35 AM, velidae said:

Thanks for your reply.

I just found this aquarium co op article on using salt, so I'll try this. I did initially move her to a quarantine jar but her new behaviour of gasping at the surface concerns me, so I've moved her back into the main tank and now she is behaving normally again.

I'll follow the Level 1 dosing from the article for the whole tank for now, since it specifically says it should be safe for all fish and cherry shrimp. Hopefully it's enough, but if not then I will revisit a quarantine tank.

What's your temperature any rapid breathing pale colour on both side could indicate a bacterial infections as your in Canada salt would my go to and adding some Indian almond leaves as they have antibacterial and antifungal properties and put him in a bigger quarantine tote like @nabokovfan87suggested 

[velidae]

On 11/17/2023 at 11:05 AM, Colu said:

What's your temperature any rapid breathing pale colour on both side could indicate a bacterial infections as your in Canada salt would my go to and adding some Indian almond leaves as they have antibacterial and antifungal properties and put him in a bigger quarantine tote like @nabokovfan87suggested 

My temperature is 23c, I lowered it because online resources recommended it for fungal infection.

I do see her gills peeking out from the operculum while she lays on the sand. The gills themselves seem very red and healthy. I have some Indian almond leaves, I'll try adding them. I have unused filter peat also, should I add that too?

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/17/2023 at 8:45 AM, velidae said:

My temperature is 23c, I lowered it because online resources recommended it for fungal infection.

I would stick to a lower limit of 25C. Keep in mind the thermometer might say one thing, but need calibrated. The heater might say it's running at one temp, but there is a range. Usually +/-2 degrees F.

Increases temp, bigger tote for swimming space, good oxygenation, and then having the salt and botanicals in there would be a great start.  Temperature being slightly high or lower than desired leads to stress and that leads to diseases or symptoms popping up.

Hopefully you see a quick improvement. Keep us posted.

Regarding the peat pellets. I can't see it hurting at all, especially adding a spoonful or something to the bottom of the QT bin. You can also add a porous rock like lava rock (no sharp edges please!) or ceramic media to give the fish some bacterial stability. Wood would be a good place for the fish to rest and provide a little cover.

[velidae]

On 11/17/2023 at 12:33 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I would stick to a lower limit of 25C. Keep in mind the thermometer might say one thing, but need calibrated. The heater might say it's running at one temp, but there is a range. Usually +/-2 degrees F.

Increases temp, bigger tote for swimming space, good oxygenation, and then having the salt and botanicals in there would be a great start.  Temperature being slightly high or lower than desired leads to stress and that leads to diseases or symptoms popping up.

Hopefully you see a quick improvement. Keep us posted.

Regarding the peat pellets. I can't see it hurting at all, especially adding a spoonful or something to the bottom of the QT bin. You can also add a porous rock like lava rock (no sharp edges please!) or ceramic media to give the fish some bacterial stability. Wood would be a good place for the fish to rest and provide a little cover.

Thanks, I've raised the temp to 25C. I have a tank thermometer and also a thermo gun thing my husband uses for steaks lol. Between the two I can get a pretty good idea of the temp.

I have my betta back in the tank for now because she was showing some really concerning new behaviours in the quarantine container. She's behaving normally again now that she's back in my aquarium. It's a 15 g fluval flex which is pretty well planted, I did 1 tbsp of salt per 3 gallons as instructed in the Aquarium Co-op article. Hopefully it works out. I also always have a strong airstone going. I had two Indian almond leaves so I put them in, and put a tea infuser full of peat inside also. 

This photo is from when I first got her, it looks different now. Tiger lotus is dormant and the cryptocoryne has spread a lot more. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/17/2023 at 4:46 PM, velidae said:

and also a thermo gun thing my husband uses for steaks lol.Aw

always verify! so thats awesome! 🙂

 

On 11/17/2023 at 4:46 PM, velidae said:

I also always have a strong airstone going.

Awesome news, the tank looks good!

 

On 11/17/2023 at 4:46 PM, velidae said:

This photo is from when I first got her, it looks different now. Tiger lotus is dormant and the cryptocoryne has spread a lot more. 

I imagine the tank is still a good setup. Please feel free to share photos of the current setup if you wish.  Is she doing any better?
 

[velidae]

On 11/18/2023 at 1:24 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

always verify! so thats awesome! 🙂

 

Awesome news, the tank looks good!

 

I imagine the tank is still a good setup. Please feel free to share photos of the current setup if you wish.  Is she doing any better?
 

Just wanted to comment an update. After the 5 days of level 1 salt treatment, it seemed like she was doing better but the white patches on her sides didn't seem to change at all. She was just a little more lively which seemed good.

Since the white patches were unchanged I did a ~70% water change and upped to the level 2 salt dosage, and it seems like she's taken a turn for the worse. Her scales are starting to pinecone over her whole body and this really worries me. Not sure what to do at this point, should I do another water change and take a break from the salt for a while?

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/23/2023 at 12:36 PM, velidae said:

Not sure what to do at this point, should I do another water change and take a break from the salt for a while?

Yep, go ahead and water change it out over the next couple of days. Once pineconing and dropsy sets in it's usually a sign of an organ failure or a buildup of fluid.

At that point, there are some meds you can try as well as epsom salt baths.

@Colu has a thread that has a detailed post for a ton of diseases to make it easy. Please let us know if we can help!

[Colu]

It's a difficult one with the symptoms your describing I would usually recommend treating with metroplex in food and a broad spectrum antibiotic treatment maracyn2 with the salt as you don't have access to these medication what I would do is keep the salt at 1 table spoon for 2 gallons that will help reduce the fluid buildup causing the pineconing I would add more Indian almond leaves you might have to add 1 leaf per gallon to get a beneficial effect you could see a vet to see if you can get some medication such as metronidazole and minocycline @velidae

[velidae]

On 11/23/2023 at 7:13 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Yep, go ahead and water change it out over the next couple of days. Once pineconing and dropsy sets in it's usually a sign of an organ failure or a buildup of fluid.

At that point, there are some meds you can try as well as epsom salt baths.

@Colu has a thread that has a detailed post for a ton of diseases to make it easy. Please let us know if we can help!

Weird thing is I don't see any visible edema, her body looks the same, but the scales do seem to be pineconing over her whole body. The pineconing only noticeably started after I raised the salt level, so I'm wondering if the salt is too hard for her. Although the loachs, shrimp, and snails in my tank all seem to be fine and behaving normally.

On 11/23/2023 at 8:01 PM, Colu said:

It's a difficult one with the symptoms your describing I would usually recommend treating with metroplex in food and a broad spectrum antibiotic treatment maracyn2 with the salt as you don't have access to these medication what I would do is keep the salt at 1 table spoon for 2 gallons that will help reduce the fluid buildup causing the pineconing I would add more Indian almond leaves you might have to add 1 leaf per gallon to get a beneficial effect you could see a vet to see if you can get some medication such as metronidazole and minocycline @velidae

I'm not sure I have access to meds, I'm currently at a 1 tbsp per 2 gallons. I can add more almond leaves.

[Colu]

On 11/24/2023 at 1:06 AM, velidae said:

Weird thing is I don't see any visible edema, her body looks the same, but the scales do seem to be pineconing over her whole body. The pineconing only noticeably started after I raised the salt level, so I'm wondering if the salt is too hard for her. Although the loachs, shrimp, and snails in my tank all seem to be fine and behaving normally.

I'm not sure I have access to meds, I'm currently at a 1 tbsp per 2 gallons. I can add more almond leaves.

Symptoms associated with dropsy such as pineconing can be caused by a number of such as organ failure internal bacterial infections and parasitic infections it's a difficult one to treat without the medication I recommended  

[velidae]

On 11/23/2023 at 8:14 PM, Colu said:

Symptoms associated with dropsy such as pineconing can be caused by a number of such as organ failure internal bacterial infections and parasitic infections it's a difficult one to treat without the medication I recommended  

I see, thanks for your help. I've done some searching online for Maracyn 2 but I'm not able to find any sources for it in Canada. I found Maracyn Oxy on Amazon.ca but that's it. Metrocleanse is also available on Amazon.ca, but she's actually been struggling to eat for some time now so internal meds may actually be challenging to feed just her and not any of my loaches or shrimp.

[Colu]

On 11/24/2023 at 1:26 AM, velidae said:

I see, thanks for your help. I've done some searching online for Maracyn 2 but I'm not able to find any sources for it in Canada. I found Maracyn Oxy on Amazon.ca but that's it. Metrocleanse is also available on Amazon.ca, but she's actually been struggling to eat for some time now so internal meds may actually be challenging to feed just her and not any of my loaches or shrimp.

If you can get metrocleanse that's praziquantel and metronidazole I would order that and dose the tank if she not eating  

[velidae]

On 11/23/2023 at 8:47 PM, Colu said:

If you can get metrocleanse that's praziquantel and metronidazole I would order that and dose the tank if she not eating  

Ok, Amazon says it won't arrive for 2 weeks.... I worry that by then it might be too late to be honest. I guess I'll just have to order and hope for the best.

[Colu]

On 11/24/2023 at 1:59 AM, velidae said:

Ok, Amazon says it won't arrive for 2 weeks.... I worry that by then it might be too late to be honest. I guess I'll just have to order and hope for the best.

Given the progression of the Illness i think the chance of her lasting for another two weeks is low fingers crossed if she gets worse and you think she suffering then I would humanely euthanize her with clove oil 

[velidae]

On 11/23/2023 at 9:54 PM, Colu said:

Given the progression of the Illness i think the chance of her lasting for another two weeks is low fingers crossed if she gets worse and you think she suffering then I would humanely euthanize her with clove oil 

Thank you for the advice, it is indeed something I am considering. Hopefully she will hang in there but right now I'm not optimistic.