Water parameters from distributor

[Jedi Kaleo]

A question more for my edification. I recently received an order from a well known distributor and decided to test the water before acclimation just to see how far off the parameters were. The fish traveled for 48 hours with 4 DOAs. I was surprised that there was no ammonia or nitrite, but nitrate was 160+.  I can not imagine the nitrate would jump that high is 48 hours with no rise in ammonia or nitrite. What this tells me is that the water quality from the distributor is cycled but still toxic due to lack of water changes. Does anyone with more experience see otherwise? (See photo attached)

[Biotope Biologist]

You won’t test nitrite or ammonia because they ship with a chemical that locks the ammonia and nitrite. It can’t interact with anything even tester chemicals.

 

Nitrate is high because in the 48 hours the fish were still producing waste, albeit at a slower rate. This is generally why you see Cory putting a net over a bucket and adding the fish to the tank dry. All that waste is best not added to your fish tank. 
 

Even reputable brands cannot get fish to stop pooping and there is so little water that it amplifies your tester results. PPM is density of a given chemical. And with so little water the density will always be higher than say a 1500 gallon stock tank

[Jedi Kaleo]

Thanks for the feedback (there was another reply on here but it disappeared) both were insightful. That makes a lot of sense about the water conditioner (I used the same Fritz complete while waiting on the drip acclimation). That is good to know about the nitrate being able to spike that fast. I have not had to deal with that too much as my tank is heavily planted (came for the fish and stayed for the plants😁)

[Guppysnail]

On 9/28/2023 at 5:29 PM, Jedi Kaleo said:

there was another reply on here but it disappeared

The reply disappeared because it was AI spam reported on other thread. When spammers are flagged as spam all of the posts disappear. 
 

It was not a legit reply. 

[Galabar]

On 9/28/2023 at 7:15 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

Nitrate is high because in the 48 hours the fish were still producing waste, albeit at a slower rate.

You would need nitrifying bacteria to produce nitrate. That nitrate is coming from the distributor's tank.

A note on water conditioner -- from the experiments that I've seen, there haven't been any confirmation that you can actually lock ammonia away (with Prime).  It looks like critters have died during testing and no efficacy was found for keeping them alive in the presence of ammonia (and Prime).  Just a public service announcement (not saying that Prime doesn't work as advertised, but folks haven't been able to experimentally show it can keep things alive).

Edited September 29, 2023 by Galabar

[Biotope Biologist]

On 9/28/2023 at 6:47 PM, Galabar said:

You would need nitrifying bacteria to produce nitrate. That nitrate is coming from the distributor's tank.

The nitrates are coming from the fish waste. Not the distributor’s tank. The ammonia and nitrites and nitrates are all detoxified. I imagine too the DOA fish had something to do with abnormally high nitrates. 
 

But this subject has been beaten to death on these forums. “History of prime” is a lovely writeup for anyone interested on how it works. There are other brands that use other chemicals but they all generally do the same thing which is to make transport of fish easier and safer for the fish. And like most other things in the aquarium hobby, it was designed with humans in mind and later adapted to our fish friends. 
 

Maybe half, more than half? Of the medicine you see on the shelves for fish are topical treatments originally patented for human use. 
 

I attempted to be succinct in my original post and in so doing it often misleads. Qualitative data abounds on this subject and there are resources on these very forums to utilize.

[Galabar]

On 9/28/2023 at 8:46 PM, Biotope Biologist said:

The nitrates are coming from the fish waste.

Please explain how the nitrates in the bag are coming from fish waste.

[HelplessNewbie]

I have had a breeder, not distributor tell me he ships his fish in separately conditioned water, not the tank water the fish was in. Is this actually helpful for the fish?

[Biotope Biologist]

On 9/29/2023 at 6:33 AM, HelplessNewbie said:

I have had a breeder, not distributor tell me he ships his fish in separately conditioned water, not the tank water the fish was in. Is this actually helpful for the fish?

Yes depending on the fish breeders, typically try to get as close to natural conditions or whatever water conditions that these fish prefer breeding in or that will trigger spawning.

 

ammonia is more toxic the more basic water is. So it’s best for breeders sometimes to use a different water source to ship them in. Other things too can be a factor. The tank could have heavy biological activity or decay that could contribute unwanted nitrites, nitrates, or ammonia during shipping.

 

Also also water conditioners have a target pH range where they are most effective. Any of these could be factors as to why this breeder chooses this method.