Mystery Illness in Peppered and Bronze Corydoras

[tetra]

On 10/7/2023 at 5:07 AM, Colu said:

What I would do is stop the medicated food and dose the tank with kanaplex do one full course then give an update 

Do I still keep/use the salt while I’m dosing the kanaplex @Colu

[Colu]

On 10/7/2023 at 6:55 PM, tetra said:

Do I still keep/use the salt while I’m dosing the kanaplex @Colu

Yes keep dosing with salt 

[tetra]

So far the Corydoras and now the neon tetras are not looking so good now. I think I have a reason why now. During the treatment, when I added salt, I did 1tbs per 2 gallons of water. After seeing no improvement, I moved on to 1tbs per 1 gallon of water. Now I still didn’t see improvement, so I decided to take the risk of doing 1tbs per 0.7 gallons of water (because of the tank being drained half way, I decided to put 7tbs of salt in there) after a day or two, the corys looked almost epistylis-free. But then a day after they just got smothered in white spots again (specifically 1 or 2 of them had been smothered. The others had white spots again, just not as much) so this “epistylis” is really adaptable to harsh conditions. (Note that I was still feeding the medicated food at the time, and it was doing nothing.) So after you said to dose kanaplex in the tank. I followed the directions, I first did a 10% water change and added 2tbs of salt and then one dose of kanaplex. I think I misunderstood the directions a little bit cause I think it told me to dose kanaplex AFTER one hour  of the water change. I realized that when a few of the corys started breathing fast and looked stressed out. Today, I added another scoop of kanaplex into the tank. But then an hour later or so the corys and neons were acting strange, so I did a water change and filled up the tank 75% all the way. Then I saw a bronze laying on its side in the corner breathing fast. I thought I might have scared it cause when I saw doing the water change, the prefilter sponge on the Hob that was turned off fell off the intake tube and I tried to line it up on the glass so I could pull it out, but I dropped it and the bronze was sitting there and it kinda just softly landed on it, then zoomed out of there and started laying in the corner breathing fast on its side.

Not too long after the water change, I saw the cory that was laying on its side, just sitting in the tank, then all of a sudden it starts freaking out and flying everywhere and then landed on its side breathing fast. It almost looked like a seizure. A neon tetra that was in there started floating at the top and started twirling around and breathing fast. Some of the other neon tetras were breathing fast, too. And before the water change I saw the one at the surface laying on its side under the cholla wood.

I’m assuming that I may have over dosed the medication and it was way too harsh for them to tolerate. The good thing is that it eliminated 99% of the white spots. But there is one white spot left on a peppered cory. I’m assuming it might spread and get worse by the next day.

I also forgot to mention that 2 of the bronze corys’ eyes were bulging out (both of them) so I assumed it was popeye. But I saw kanaplex could treat popeye, so I didn’t change anything.

And that bronze cory that had a black smudge on its caudal fin passed away a few hours ago, but something I didn’t realize was that when I fished it out, it had been dead for a while. The reason why was after I did a water change, the cory went on the side of the cholla wood and stood there, it didn’t move for hours so I thought it might of died. And when I did move it, it was dead standing up. I swore I saw it breathing, but it was already too late.

So it seems that this “epistylis” is extremely adaptable and very tolerant of these medications. Even something stronger than the 1tbs per 1 gallon of water wasn’t strong enough to kill it. So day by day, this situation looks as if it’s getting better, but then just pops back up again and wreaks havoc.

So far right now the neon tetra is not doing so good, it’s laying on its side breathing heavy.

 

 

[Colu]

On 10/9/2023 at 11:26 PM, tetra said:

So far the Corydoras and now the neon tetras are not looking so good now. I think I have a reason why now. During the treatment, when I added salt, I did 1tbs per 2 gallons of water. After seeing no improvement, I moved on to 1tbs per 1 gallon of water. Now I still didn’t see improvement, so I decided to take the risk of doing 1tbs per 0.7 gallons of water (because of the tank being drained half way, I decided to put 7tbs of salt in there) after a day or two, the corys looked almost epistylis-free. But then a day after they just got smothered in white spots again (specifically 1 or 2 of them had been smothered. The others had white spots again, just not as much) so this “epistylis” is really adaptable to harsh conditions. (Note that I was still feeding the medicated food at the time, and it was doing nothing.) So after you said to dose kanaplex in the tank. I followed the directions, I first did a 10% water change and added 2tbs of salt and then one dose of kanaplex. I think I misunderstood the directions a little bit cause I think it told me to dose kanaplex AFTER one hour  of the water change. I realized that when a few of the corys started breathing fast and looked stressed out. Today, I added another scoop of kanaplex into the tank. But then an hour later or so the corys and neons were acting strange, so I did a water change and filled up the tank 75% all the way. Then I saw a bronze laying on its side in the corner breathing fast. I thought I might have scared it cause when I saw doing the water change, the prefilter sponge on the Hob that was turned off fell off the intake tube and I tried to line it up on the glass so I could pull it out, but I dropped it and the bronze was sitting there and it kinda just softly landed on it, then zoomed out of there and started laying in the corner breathing fast on its side.

Not too long after the water change, I saw the cory that was laying on its side, just sitting in the tank, then all of a sudden it starts freaking out and flying everywhere and then landed on its side breathing fast. It almost looked like a seizure. A neon tetra that was in there started floating at the top and started twirling around and breathing fast. Some of the other neon tetras were breathing fast, too. And before the water change I saw the one at the surface laying on its side under the cholla wood.

I’m assuming that I may have over dosed the medication and it was way too harsh for them to tolerate. The good thing is that it eliminated 99% of the white spots. But there is one white spot left on a peppered cory. I’m assuming it might spread and get worse by the next day.

I also forgot to mention that 2 of the bronze corys’ eyes were bulging out (both of them) so I assumed it was popeye. But I saw kanaplex could treat popeye, so I didn’t change anything.

And that bronze cory that had a black smudge on its caudal fin passed away a few hours ago, but something I didn’t realize was that when I fished it out, it had been dead for a while. The reason why was after I did a water change, the cory went on the side of the cholla wood and stood there, it didn’t move for hours so I thought it might of died. And when I did move it, it was dead standing up. I swore I saw it breathing, but it was already too late.

So it seems that this “epistylis” is extremely adaptable and very tolerant of these medications. Even something stronger than the 1tbs per 1 gallon of water wasn’t strong enough to kill it. So day by day, this situation looks as if it’s getting better, but then just pops back up again and wreaks havoc.

So far right now the neon tetra is not doing so good, it’s laying on its side breathing heavy.

 

 

Using more than 1 table spoon per gallon of aquarium salt can be harmful to some more sensitive fish like Cory's that could be  what affected your Cory and neon tetra I would only do one course of kanaplex because of the amount of medication they have had I would lower the level of salt back to 1 table spoon for 5 gallons and increase surface agation 

[tetra]

On 10/9/2023 at 7:04 PM, Colu said:

Using more than 1 table spoon per gallon of aquarium salt can be harmful to some more sensitive fish like Cory's that could be  what affected your Cory and neon tetra I would only do one course of kanaplex because of the amount of medication they have had I would lower the level of salt back to 1 table spoon for 5 gallons and increase surface agation 

I followed exactly as you said shortly after and so far they haven’t been flashing and the white spots disappeared (though there could be some spots that I didn’t see) but unfortunately before I dosed the kanaplex and salt yesterday, 2 neon tetras died. Another died earlier but it didn’t look like anything was wrong with it at all. I just found it dead inside a bio ring. Usually they can get themselves out of there and the tetra didn’t look stuck. I’m not sure if it got an over dose of medication even though I only put 2 scoops of kanaplex. (I think it’s worth mentioning that I filled the tank back up so now the volume is 10 gallons so there was no over dose of medication.) I’m not sure if it’s coloration or not but all the neons have a small pink spot right above their head. But it never looked like it had affected them as I had them in there for 2 months now. The bronze cory and 2 neons that died have died in the same 2-3 hour period which is extremely rapid deaths. The bronze cory that looked like it had a seizure is laying on its side again and has been there for 2 hours now but it’s still breathing but heavy. The peppers seem to not stay still when they rest from swimming around the front of them just lifts up and they either start swimming again or they start just drifting or staying still in a corner floating (not belly up just facing the glass mid way to the surface.) 

I remember hearing about giving fish too much medications can damage their kidneys. But I’m not sure if this is the case.

[Colu]

On 10/11/2023 at 3:28 AM, tetra said:

I followed exactly as you said shortly after and so far they haven’t been flashing and the white spots disappeared (though there could be some spots that I didn’t see) but unfortunately before I dosed the kanaplex and salt yesterday, 2 neon tetras died. Another died earlier but it didn’t look like anything was wrong with it at all. I just found it dead inside a bio ring. Usually they can get themselves out of there and the tetra didn’t look stuck. I’m not sure if it got an over dose of medication even though I only put 2 scoops of kanaplex. (I think it’s worth mentioning that I filled the tank back up so now the volume is 10 gallons so there was no over dose of medication.) I’m not sure if it’s coloration or not but all the neons have a small pink spot right above their head. But it never looked like it had affected them as I had them in there for 2 months now. The bronze cory and 2 neons that died have died in the same 2-3 hour period which is extremely rapid deaths. The bronze cory that looked like it had a seizure is laying on its side again and has been there for 2 hours now but it’s still breathing but heavy. The peppers seem to not stay still when they rest from swimming around the front of them just lifts up and they either start swimming again or they start just drifting or staying still in a corner floating (not belly up just facing the glass mid way to the surface.) 

I remember hearing about giving fish too much medications can damage their kidneys. But I’m not sure if this is the case.

Can you take a picture of pink spots on your neon tetra and the sick Cory   over  dose of kanaplex can lead to kidney damage   its difficult to say for sure if that the cause of the deaths  any spitting food out hanging out near the surface weight loss 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Colu

[tetra]

On 10/10/2023 at 7:55 PM, Colu said:

Can you take a picture of pink spots on your neon tetra and the sick Cory   over  dose of kanaplex lead to kidney damage   its difficult to say for sure if that the cause of the deaths  any spitting food out hanging out near the surface weight loss 

So it seems the pink spots on their heads had disappeared. But I still took a picture anyway, they were incredibly difficult to take of picture of without the camera not focusing or the caudal fins vanishing and you could still barely see them (the caudal fins)

The bronze cory that was laying on its side tried desperately to get up when I dropped food in the tank. It just barely got up but when it did I saw it was breathing rapidly even though there is plenty of surface agitation (I don’t feel like it’s safe to add more agitation as the tetras cannot handle the current very well. They’re not being blown around but don’t look the most comfortable at times.) It also had a bit of white spots on it (probably from laying down being vulnerable.)

And nearly all the fish in the tank have some ragged and partially ripped fins including the neon tetras. It’s mostly on the bronze corys but the peppers don’t seem to have this issue though the pectoral fins on one of them looks a lot skinnier than the one on the other side.

They were not spitting out food when I fed them 20 minutes ago. No seeing much hanging out at the surface except for a pepper that usually goes up there for breathe but swims along the top side ways fast than swims back down. Sometimes the bronze corys swim rapidly across the tank but not too much. And all the neons are relatively plump except for one of the older ones that is 2 years old but it’s almost always looked like that. I’m not underfeeding but I do occasionally fast them. All the corys are not super plump but aren’t skinny. The stomach is about flat at the bottom just a bit.

The bronze in the picture below has gotten a lot more pale, too.

[Colu]

Looking at everything I think you need take a step back stop most of  the medication as am  not sure wheather the medication and salt have caused some of your losses and reassess what I would do is leave one dose of ick X in and let it marinate for week if your not seeing any ammonia or nitrite just feed them with frozen or live brine shrimp daphnia Cyclops micro worms and monitor combination of good quality foods and good water can do wonders after a week with no intervention give an  update I no it seem counter productive to not do anything when a disease has been going on as long as this has sometimes its good to reassess things @tetra

Edited October 20, 2023 by Colu

[tetra]

Update:

so far, all white spots have been eradicated (I forgot to mention that there was a couple of spots still left on the peppers but not much after.) The bronze corys still have some ripped fins, it’s not red around the edges but it hasn’t gotten worse.

So far no high mortality anymore, but a few days ago on Saturday, the cory that may have had a seizure passed. A couple days before, I knew it wasn’t gonna make it seeing how it could move properly or go up for air anymore. The tank was heavily aerated, but it was still breathing fast and sometimes upside down. I thought it may have been a swim bladder issue because of the way it was moving, but I’m not 100% sure why.

Over the last week, I fed them frozen mysis shrimp and frozen bloodworms. Day 1 I fed them mysis. Day 2 I fed them blood worms. Day 3 I fasted them because of the amount of protein they were getting. Day 4 fed them mysis. Day 5 I fasted them again. Day 6 I fasted them again. Day 7 I fasted them once again. (I think I may have fed them on day 5 but not sure. Also note that I didn’t do water changes during this time. I did a 50% water change a few hours ago to remove the ich-x in there.)

Peppers weren’t doing too good after this. They just start floating up still, but first the front of their body lifts up then the back lifts up slightly then they swim away. They continue to keep doing this and it’s really bothering me. They started breathing heavier and faster but I think it may have been because the airline tubing came out of the sponge filter and didn’t give much water flow after. I fixed it earlier but they continue to still do the symptoms above.

The good news is that the bronze corys’ eyes went back to normal and no signs of what may have been popeye showed.

Could the symptoms of the peppers be because of all the medications? Though I don’t think that’s a good question being that they’ve been doing that since I got them.
 

 

[Colu]

On 10/20/2023 at 4:07 AM, tetra said:

Update:

so far, all white spots have been eradicated (I forgot to mention that there was a couple of spots still left on the peppers but not much after.) The bronze corys still have some ripped fins, it’s not red around the edges but it hasn’t gotten worse.

So far no high mortality anymore, but a few days ago on Saturday, the cory that may have had a seizure passed. A couple days before, I knew it wasn’t gonna make it seeing how it could move properly or go up for air anymore. The tank was heavily aerated, but it was still breathing fast and sometimes upside down. I thought it may have been a swim bladder issue because of the way it was moving, but I’m not 100% sure why.

Over the last week, I fed them frozen mysis shrimp and frozen bloodworms. Day 1 I fed them mysis. Day 2 I fed them blood worms. Day 3 I fasted them because of the amount of protein they were getting. Day 4 fed them mysis. Day 5 I fasted them again. Day 6 I fasted them again. Day 7 I fasted them once again. (I think I may have fed them on day 5 but not sure. Also note that I didn’t do water changes during this time. I did a 50% water change a few hours ago to remove the ich-x in there.)

Peppers weren’t doing too good after this. They just start floating up still, but first the front of their body lifts up then the back lifts up slightly then they swim away. They continue to keep doing this and it’s really bothering me. They started breathing heavier and faster but I think it may have been because the airline tubing came out of the sponge filter and didn’t give much water flow after. I fixed it earlier but they continue to still do the symptoms above.

The good news is that the bronze corys’ eyes went back to normal and no signs of what may have been popeye showed.

Could the symptoms of the peppers be because of all the medications? Though I don’t think that’s a good question being that they’ve been doing that since I got them.
 

 

The medication could have exacerbated the symptoms your seeing the fact that the Cory's behaviour changed after a water change  I would test amount of chlorine in your tap if it's high you would want add 3x the amount of dechlorinator I would feed blood worms only once a week and start feeding some pellets or flake along side the frozen give it another 5 days with out any medication monitor them and make a note of any odd behaviour   or symptoms your seeing then give an update 

[tetra]

Update:

One of the peppers seem to not be doing well. I saw it breathing heavier than everyone else and started just laying on top of the prefilter sponge it only does this for a short moment then comes back down. It still gasp for air at the surface, and all the other corys do to, but this one does it way more often. 
 

This could be a possible reason, but I think the reason they are breathing fast is because of one thing, soap. I’ve always done this, but I wash my hands with dish soap before putting my hands in the tank. I do that with all the tanks but never saw breathing problems. But sometimes when doing water changes in the tank, I sometimes see some soap residue on my hands. So I go wash the residue off with water. When I go back, I still see residue after putting my hands in the water, I don’t know if it’s because I rub my hands together to make sure it’s gone but the perfume turns into soap. I’m not sure, I haven’t done enough research about this enough. But I saw that dish soap removes (most or all) the oxygen out of the water. (I’m assuming this is used to kill the bacteria on the dishes.) So, I used a new soap and then put a glove on for safety precautions. And after a water change a few hours later, I saw that most of the corys stopped breathing fast. (There was still a neon tetra and a pepper breathing a little faster but I’m assuming they are recovering from what could have possibly been soap.)

Could I have poisoned them? Though I doubt it, cause they would have all been dead most likely, though I’m not sure.

But after a few days with no meds, I saw some more white spots come back on some of the peppers and one bronze. I don’t know what it’s gonna take to kill this stuff, it just keeps coming back. But for the most part, no mortality not much breathing heavy or fast except for a pepper and the neon. I’ve been feeding them pellets, wafers, and bug bites. Soon, I’m gonna feed them frozen mysis shrimp.

Still ragged fins, though it’s not getting worse.

Not too much chlorine in the tap, it’s 0.8 on the strip.

[Colu]

On 10/27/2023 at 2:49 AM, tetra said:

Update:

One of the peppers seem to not be doing well. I saw it breathing heavier than everyone else and started just laying on top of the prefilter sponge it only does this for a short moment then comes back down. It still gasp for air at the surface, and all the other corys do to, but this one does it way more often. 
 

This could be a possible reason, but I think the reason they are breathing fast is because of one thing, soap. I’ve always done this, but I wash my hands with dish soap before putting my hands in the tank. I do that with all the tanks but never saw breathing problems. But sometimes when doing water changes in the tank, I sometimes see some soap residue on my hands. So I go wash the residue off with water. When I go back, I still see residue after putting my hands in the water, I don’t know if it’s because I rub my hands together to make sure it’s gone but the perfume turns into soap. I’m not sure, I haven’t done enough research about this enough. But I saw that dish soap removes (most or all) the oxygen out of the water. (I’m assuming this is used to kill the bacteria on the dishes.) So, I used a new soap and then put a glove on for safety precautions. And after a water change a few hours later, I saw that most of the corys stopped breathing fast. (There was still a neon tetra and a pepper breathing a little faster but I’m assuming they are recovering from what could have possibly been soap.)

Could I have poisoned them? Though I doubt it, cause they would have all been dead most likely, though I’m not sure.

But after a few days with no meds, I saw some more white spots come back on some of the peppers and one bronze. I don’t know what it’s gonna take to kill this stuff, it just keeps coming back. But for the most part, no mortality not much breathing heavy or fast except for a pepper and the neon. I’ve been feeding them pellets, wafers, and bug bites. Soon, I’m gonna feed them frozen mysis shrimp.

Still ragged fins, though it’s not getting worse.

Not too much chlorine in the tap, it’s 0.8 on the strip.

What I would do is just wash your hands with hot water before doing anything with the  tanks 0.8 of chlorine will be removed by your dechlorinator so a don't see that as an issue the ragged fins just need some time to grow back can your take a picture of Cory's with the spots if possible to so I can see how it's progressing 

[tetra]

I think I may be dealing with fin rot as I saw that the ripped fins got worse. No Redding around the edge of the fins. I haven’t been seeing any bulling so it could be fin rot.

I also saw that some of the white spots disappeared even without meds. There is still some white spots but a majority of it disappeared. I did see earlier that a pepper was laying on its side breathing heavy and fast. Only saw a couple of spots on it. I soon got up after, a few hours later I saw it again laying on its side, breathing fast again. It also got back up again, but it still continues to breathe fast

I’m not sure if it’s normal, but these white spots that look like the epistylis, have been on the cholla wood since I got them I’m pretty sure, and they haven’t went away. They are different sizes and some spots look rougher than others.

I couldn’t get a good picture of the ripped fins but I got the white spot photos. There is only a few white spots left, there was a ton yesterday, but I guess it died off.

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/6/2023 at 7:15 PM, tetra said:

The good news is that they have stopped breathing fast, and that is pretty much it. There was improvement before, but then it just got worse again.

Hey @tetra ! I am happy to hear that there is some improvement.

I re-read through the thread as if I hadn't read the information previously and tried to view everything with a fresh perspective.  I do think there is a few things going on and one of the main things might just be a confusion or miscommunication.  I am sorry for this and let's hope we can get things going in the right direction.

I will try to be succinct and clear and hopefully that helps get things on the way.

First, you mentioned the fish in the mail and they were in the box for slightly longer than desired.  The sign at the time was breathing rapidly.  This is one of the single most common signs of stress with corydoras.  I believe what may have happened at this point is likely some form of ammonia or nitrite burn issues.  This can be common and it does happen and the best course at that point would've been to let the fish recover.  The next thing that happened was they went through medications, furthering more stress and likely causing damage on top of those earlier issues from shipping.  It's just a general thing, but sometimes it's best to let the fish recover as opposed to dosing meds too quickly.  This could be 1-2 weeks or even a month if need be. 

Essentially, the best course may have been to give the fish a lot of air, some aquarium salt to help recover, botanicals, and good water quality that fits their needs.

Second thing that caught my eye was when we were previously discussing KH/GH and you mentioned: "

 

On 9/12/2023 at 6:21 PM, tetra said:

The Gh is 25PPM on the Co-Op strips I have previously tested before with the Gh and Kh test kit and the Kh and Gh were on point with the strips. The Kh was higher previously at around 4-5ppm, it’s Just I haven’t cleaned the filter for about a month in there so all the waste shot out and probably brought the Kh down.

On 9/12/2023 at 7:13 PM, tetra said:

I forgot to mention, the Gh in the 75G is 150PPM so I’m not sure what brought the Gh down as I’m not adding any minerals to the water other than just Easy Green and Prime.

On 9/14/2023 at 6:49 PM, tetra said:

I tested with the GH/KH test kit and after adding the alkaline buffer, my KH is 11-12 degrees and my Ph is now 8.0-8.4. My GH is 4 degrees. On the test strips, my KH is 300ppm+, the GH is still 25ppm, the nitrite is 0ppm, the nitrate is 10ppm, I tested with liquid ammonia test kit and the ammonia is 0-0.25 ppm its difficult to see the colors on the charts as they look so similar.

On 10/6/2023 at 7:15 PM, tetra said:

I tested the water yesterday when I added the most recent treatment of the salt. Everything was the same, the ph is 7.2 or 7.4, the nitrate is 10, the nitrite is 0, the GH is 25, the Kh is 0 (I know it’s low but it hasn’t effected them much even after raising the Kh and ph. So I just decided to keep it stable instead of chasing the Kh since I didn’t want to stress them more than they already are with this “epistylis”.)

I just wanted to do an overview and look at each data point and how the KH and GH were changing over time.  I want to make sure we're using the same terminology and not confusing ppm (parts per million) with degrees of hardness.

KH: 4-5 ppm --> 11-12 degrees or 300 ppm --> 0 ppm
GH: 25 ppm --> 150 ppm --> 4 degrees --> 25 (ppm?)

My gut tells me that the water stability has been up and down.  This sense that the already stressed fish was further stressed by other things like water stability.  Acclimation for corydoras has always been a difficult process in my tanks.  I feel the struggle and I hope we can figure things out and improve the situation for you and the fish long term.  These days, I am much more comfortable with bringing in fish, doing things the right way, and being able to acclimate them to my water.

@Colu please see the above...  let us know your thoughts.

Ultimately, my advice right now would be to take a step back and let the fish recover.  The things I seriously need to understand before offering any real advice for treatment is going to be:

1.  Full water parameters, clear results, for your tank as well as the tap water.
2.  Are you adding an additional airstone (or two, or three) for the corydoras in any tanks where you see them breathing rapidly?  I would discontinue use of the salt if they have been under salt for ~ over a month at this point. 
3. What is your filtration in the tank like and how is it setup?

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/29/2023 at 8:46 PM, tetra said:

The same white spots are all over the wood.  Just a note.

One thing to keep in mind is that whenever you add salt (or meds) the water gets thicker.  Because of this, adding 1-2 airstones to help with oxygenation as well as circulation is seriously critical.  We need to find a way to get the corydoras to stop breathing rapidly.  Gill damage from shipping could explain a lot of the extended "stressful breathing" that you're seeing.  The other things like the white spots are also concerning and having the fish in salt for this length of time leads me to think that we really need to take a step back and get the necessary details before making the next steps.

I hope things improve. Hopefully we can get this all figured out. I am very sorry for all of the struggles you've been experiencing.

[Colu]

The two spots aren't enough to concern me at the moment I would holed off on further treatment for now it's possible they have some damage to the Gill's caused by ammonia or nitrite as @nabokovfan87mention that's why your not seeing much improvement with the rapid breathing as it's been going on a month and the spots keep coming back to varying degrees it could also be stress related that why you keep having issues if your KH is dropping over time that will cause your pH to swing this can lead to stress see if you can get a good look at there Gill's  to see if there grey or bright red grey 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Colu

[tetra]

On 10/30/2023 at 4:44 AM, Colu said:

The two spots aren't enough to concern me at the moment I would holed off on further treatment for now it's possible they have some damage to the Gill's caused by ammonia or nitrite as @nabokovfan87mention that why your not seeing much improvement with the rapid breathing as it's been going on a month and the spots keep coming back to varying degrees it could also be stress related that why you keep having issues if your KH is dropping over time that will cause your pH to swing this can lead to stress see if you can get a good look at there Gill's  to see if there grey or bright red grey 

I did notice a few days after I got them that they had a bit of discoloration in their gills (specifically the bronze cause the peppers are naturally gray so I couldn’t notice anything off.) It almost looked grayish. Right now, I tried my best to get a look at the gills of the a bronze cory and it did look a little reddish gray. The outside of the gills looked grayer than what would be called normal.

A pepper also passed yesterday. I found it laying on its side with some white spots on it. The spots have progressed a bit, but not significantly. I found another pepper laying on its side earlier but it got back up just like the one that passed. It also has white spots on it, not much though.

@nabokovfan87 I haven’t used salt since @Colu told me to stop dosing medication. So nothing has been in the water.

[nabokovfan87]

On 10/30/2023 at 3:13 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

1.  Full water parameters, clear results, for your tank as well as the tap water.
2.  Are you adding an additional airstone (or two, or three) for the corydoras in any tanks where you see them breathing rapidly?  I would discontinue use of the salt if they have been under salt for ~ over a month at this point. 
3. What is your filtration in the tank like and how is it setup?

@tetra please help us out with these.

[Colu]

On 11/1/2023 at 10:04 PM, tetra said:

I did notice a few days after I got them that they had a bit of discoloration in their gills (specifically the bronze cause the peppers are naturally gray so I couldn’t notice anything off.) It almost looked grayish. Right now, I tried my best to get a look at the gills of the a bronze cory and it did look a little reddish gray. The outside of the gills looked grayer than what would be called normal.

A pepper also passed yesterday. I found it laying on its side with some white spots on it. The spots have progressed a bit, but not significantly. I found another pepper laying on its side earlier but it got back up just like the one that passed. It also has white spots on it, not much though.

@nabokovfan87 I haven’t used salt since @Colu told me to stop dosing medication. So nothing has been in the water.

Grey Gill's can be an indication of nitire poisoning red Gill are a sign of ammonia poisoning  possible permanent damage to the Gill's that's why your not seeing much improvement the peppered Cory that died were the spots  raised or flat  

Edited November 2, 2023 by Colu

[tetra]

On 11/1/2023 at 3:18 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

@tetra please help us out with these.

I actually tested my tap water last week but I decided to test it again to be sure.

Water out of the Tap:

PH: 6.8

Nitrates: 0

Nitrites: 0

GH: 25PPM

KH: 40PPM

Tank Water:

PH: 6.8

Nitrates: 10

Nitrites: 0

GH: 25PPM

KH: 0

I’ve noticed that the Kh in the tap is higher than the tank water which is strange. But I think I may have a reason for this. A month or so ago I mentioned that, “It’s just I haven’t cleaned the filter in about a month in there so all the waste shot out and probably brought the Kh down.” And I still haven’t clean the filter. It’s not because I was being lazy, but because I was looking around earlier when I started the topic on how to kill epistylis. I saw that not cleaning the filter would increase the bacterial count causing excess bacteria and that excess bacteria will eat the same gram negative bacteria that the epistylis consumes. So that way the epistylis would slowly starve to death. So I didn’t clean the filter since 2 months ago. Now the reason because the Kh might of went down is because all of the excess waste in the filter building up from all the fish poop.

Now, I’m actually running two filters, a sponge filter, and a hang on back (aqueon to be specific.) That hang on back’s cartridge was replaced with a coarse sponge from co op and I’ve been using it since then. The sponge filter is set to max flow, and I have pretty good surface agitation from the HOB and the sponge filter. No dead spots at all.

I never changed the flow or added an air stone after seeing them breathe heavier or faster than normal, because I didn’t want to blow them around, I think that would stress them more as they can’t sit down for long before they start being blowed very slightly by the current of the water. I think gill damage from ammonia or nitrite poisoning can be a good reason for this. As they got left in the mail since 12PM I ended up grabbing them from the mailbox at 11PM. I never knew they were delivered cause the app told me that it wasn’t here and wasn’t gonna be here until tomorrow. Then, I checked again and the app said that it got delivered this morning at 12PM. I quickly got the package soon after that then saw they were breathing fast inside the bag. I ended up following the acclimation instructions from Aquahuna to get them use to the water. The peppers and bronze corys were in separate bags and I poured them in the same bucket and their water mixed, I barely just noticed I did that and I got a slight panic cause I thought I may could have just caused shock, but they didn’t react, so I just continued the process and put them in.

On 11/1/2023 at 5:08 PM, Colu said:

Grey Gill's can be an indication of nitire poisoning red Gill are a sign of ammonia poisoning  possible permanent damage to the Gill's that's why your not seeing much improvement the peppered Cory that died were the spots  raised or flat  

The pepper’s spots were raised and of different sized. There weren’t many spots but it was enough to notice it wasn’t ich.

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/3/2023 at 7:20 PM, tetra said:

Water out of the Tap:

PH: 6.8

Nitrates: 0

Nitrites: 0

GH: 25PPM

KH: 40PPM

Tank Water:

PH: 6.8

Nitrates: 10

Nitrites: 0

GH: 25PPM

KH: 0

It's basically an indication of OTS setting in.
 

The water you have is seemingly just fine with corydoras.  KH can be slightly higher to give you long term stability.   As you mentioned, there was some extenuating circumstances with the meds, but the goal here is to get your tap water to match your tank and get that KH up.  daily 50% water changes (if possible) will do just fine to slowly raise up the KH over a week.
 

On 11/3/2023 at 7:20 PM, tetra said:

I never changed the flow or added an air stone after seeing them breathe heavier or faster than normal, because I didn’t want to blow them around, I think that would stress them more as they can’t sit down for long before they start being blowed very slightly by the current of the water. I think gill damage from ammonia or nitrite poisoning can be a good reason for this. As they got left in the mail since 12PM I ended up grabbing them from the mailbox at 11PM. I never knew they were delivered cause the app told me that it wasn’t here and wasn’t gonna be here until tomorrow. Then, I checked again and the app said that it got delivered this morning at 12PM. I quickly got the package soon after that then saw they were breathing fast inside the bag. I ended up following the acclimation instructions from Aquahuna to get them use to the water. The peppers and bronze corys were in separate bags and I poured them in the same bucket and their water mixed, I barely just noticed I did that and I got a slight panic cause I thought I may could have just caused shock, but they didn’t react, so I just continued the process and put them in.

I know it seems stressful, but please add an airstone if you can.  Sometimes the oxygenation isn't quite where you want it to be and it's a pretty solid safety net.  You have the sponge in there with an air drop, so that's something, but having the ability to add an airstone will give them more oxygenation throughout any treatments and acclimation process.  Corydoras tend to really like flow.  They can handle a lot of flow, but I do understand what you're saying about an already stressed fish getting tossed around.  An additional airstone will be very mild and will help to increase oxygenation

I think we all have had mail issues and shipping in fish is definitely stressful.  I am sorry this happened. 

Let's get things where they need to be, get the water quality (KH) where it needs to be, and clean filtration.  Once we have things better off, maybe you will see the fish perk up and start to improve.

[Colu]

I would say it a combination of Gill damage caused by ammonia and nitire and epistylis any more fish develop spots @tetra

[tetra]

On 11/4/2023 at 4:32 AM, Colu said:

I would say it a combination of Gill damage caused by ammonia and nitire and epistylis any more fish develop spots @tetra

Yes, more of them got white spots a few days ago. But then all the spots disappeared a few days later.

I finally got the Kh up now. It’s the same as the tap now, about 40ppm. All other water parameters are still the same as I mentioned last week.

I also added another air stone yesterday, right now. The cories are not breathing as heavy or fast but the pepper that was laying on its side is still breathing rapidly. It got very little improvement from the air stone but it was enough that it could get back up and not be on its side or facing the surface. But it’s still very lethargic and could barley swim correctly, it almost looks like it has a swim bladder issue, something like that. It’s not swimming upside-down but it is crashing down to the bottom when ever it tries to get up from its spot.

[Colu]

I have just reread the thread just in case I missed anything only other thing I could suggest is treating with prazipro once a week for 3 or you can treat with paracleanse every 2 weeks for 3 full course of treatment to rule out Gill flukes and add back in a small amount of aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 5 gallons  @tetra

[nabokovfan87]

I would recommend finding a way to keep KH stable long term as well. Definitely keep up on water changes and keep an eye on it. Plants need KH as well.