Otos Or Hillstream Loaches

[JE47]

I currently have a 29 gallon tank stocked with 10 white clouds, 5 peppered corydoras, 3 amano shrimp, and a king of the tank a calm sedate plakat betta. I also have a clown pleco who I am looking to rehome via my local fish store. I was hoping to add another kind of algae grazer but was unsure which is better hillstream loaches or otos? I have heard that otos can starve easily if there is not enough algae so I lean more towards the loaches but I am unsure.

[Zac]

On 8/18/2023 at 7:39 PM, JE47 said:

I currently have a 29 gallon tank stocked with 10 white clouds, 5 peppered corydoras, 3 amano shrimp, and a king of the tank a calm sedate plakat betta. I also have a clown pleco who I am looking to rehome via my local fish store. I was hoping to add another kind of algae grazer but was unsure which is better hillstream loaches or otos? I have heard that otos can starve easily if there is not enough algae so I lean more towards the loaches but I am unsure.

Otos stay smaller so given your current stocking, I think they would work better. You can throw in blanched veggies for them if there’s no algae 

[AndEEss]

If you’re worried about otos starving, you shouldn’t be considering significantly larger fish that eat the same things. That makes no sense.

[JE47]

Yes, I see your point. But I have heard otos more exclusively feed on algae and biofilm alone as opposed to hillstream loaches who will eat things other than just algae.

[_Eric_]

On 8/19/2023 at 1:49 AM, JE47 said:

Yes, I see your point. But I have heard otos more exclusively feed on algae and biofilm alone as opposed to hillstream loaches who will eat things other than just algae.

I havent had that experience with otos.  My otos like Hikari sinking pellets that I feed to my corys and really love repashy.

[Lennie]

I dont have hillstreams but based on my experience, borneo eats basically any fish food you feed the tank, in addition to biofilm and flat surface algaes. I would personally choose borneos or hillstreams. You can also consider panda garras I suppose? I havent kept them yet but def on my future list. I cant happen to find a healthy looking stock.

My otos were not eating commercial food until they started to school with my pygmy corydoras. They taught otos how and what to eat, however, this time they started to consume animal protein rich food often due to following them around, which was not a great option for otos. I lost one member to bloating, which made me question if this eating behavior lead to it.

 

Otos are a risk as you mentioned. You will surely need to ignore their schooling need in such tank size. They are incredible cute, but until I have a quite big enough tank to support at least 10 of these I wouldnt get them again myself. Veggies may work for some people but didnt work for me really.

 

I would go for borneos if you want smaller size, or hillstreams if you want bigger ones. or maybe consider panda garras but I have no personal experience with that one. Have you considered them?

I gotta mention this tho, nothing can eat diatom like otos based on my experience. But diatoms are usually a phase and otos clear it up in like 2 days max anyway. For everything else, I think they aren't much different.

[JE47]

how many hillstreams would you recomend

 

[Lennie]

On 8/19/2023 at 8:36 PM, JE47 said:

how many hillstreams would you recomend

 

@beastie what do you think for a 29g? 

[JE47]

I have not considered using panda garras but I have now. Does anyone have any experience with panda garras and how many I could keep?

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/18/2023 at 4:39 PM, JE47 said:

I currently have a 29 gallon tank stocked with 10 white clouds, 5 peppered corydoras, 3 amano shrimp, and a king of the tank a calm sedate plakat betta. I also have a clown pleco who I am looking to rehome via my local fish store. I was hoping to add another kind of algae grazer but was unsure which is better hillstream loaches or otos? I have heard that otos can starve easily if there is not enough algae so I lean more towards the loaches but I am unsure.

Hey, welcome to the forums!

One big note here to start.  Everything in your tank right now excluding the betta is considered a river type of species.  This usually means 2 things, they like higher oxygenation on the water than most fish and it means that they generally prefer slightly cooler temps than something like a betta would.  Most recommendations for a betta is ~80 degrees, while the other fish I would suggest a temperature closer to the 72-74 range.  Having them warmer will simply shorten their lifespan and can cause diseases through stress. 

The awesome news here is that both oto and the hillstream also fit that river species category and will want that similar water setup.  Hillstreams and otos do very different things.  Amanos tend to be focused on hardscape, one things that other creatures can really access: cracks in wood, rock, plant roots, etc.  Otos will be focused on things like plant leaves or areas where their smaller size is easier to get into.  Mine spend a lot of time on glass during the day, but at night they will be all over the tank and grazing on those surfaces that need it.  For instance, an oto has a very hard time cleaning hairgrass just because it's bodyweight can't be supported by the plant.  Not if you get a bit larger you have borneo loaches, and even larger hillstream loaches or plecos.  Plecos will mostly stick to the glass or to very large flat surfaces.  Same thing with your hillstream species and that goes back to how their mouths are designed, how they eat, and what they want to feed on.  They can more easily focus on a large flat surface instead of trying to find enough food off all of these small surfaces. 

Considering all of those details, each fish has their own area they like to occupy.  I really enjoy having amano and otos in every tank.  I enjoy watching them and they just help out keep things clean for me better than I can.  Are they perfect and adding them means you don't need to do maintenance.... absolutely not.

On 8/19/2023 at 10:36 AM, JE47 said:

how many hillstreams would you recomend

In a 29G, ~3 borneo loaches.  Maybe 1 hillstream loach.

[JE47]

Thanks for the imput. Yes I did discover after the fact that the minnows prefer cooler temps than a betta oops. I do keep the tank on the cooler side than the betta might prefer by four degrees to help keep the minnows more comfortable. I do try to keep a constant eye on the inhabitants in case of illness because they are both outside their comfort zones in temp a little but so far they seem happy with an unending hunger for food.

[Lennie]

On 9/2/2023 at 8:34 AM, JE47 said:

Thanks for the imput. Yes I did discover after the fact that the minnows prefer cooler temps than a betta oops. I do keep the tank on the cooler side than the betta might prefer by four degrees to help keep the minnows more comfortable. I do try to keep a constant eye on the inhabitants in case of illness because they are both outside their comfort zones in temp a little but so far they seem happy with an unending hunger for food.

I would lean towards the bettas temperature preferences instead because when kept below 26C or so, their immune system starts to weaken and they start being more prone to diseases like finrot and stuff. Bettas are known to be more problematic than minnows in general

[beastie]

Well i have all three, otos in one tank, garras and hillstream loaches in another tank. I would go for otos or nothing. Loaches hide and eat only one type of algae, garras most likely don't eat any algae especially if you feed the rest of the tank. Otis also only like diatom. Nothing will touch hair algae or hard to eat algae anyway.

Get a nerit/clithon snail instead

 

 

[JChristophersAdventures]

Like @beastie, I would go with otos, myself. Yes, it may be preferred to have a whole school, but in a smaller peaceful tank, you would be fine with 2 or 3. I would also agree with @nabokovfan87 about teaming some amano with them... that's a solid algae team for smaller tanks... also adds fun and interest.  Thanks.

[nabokovfan87]

On 9/2/2023 at 5:09 AM, beastie said:

Nothing will touch hair algae or hard to eat algae anyway.

Get a nerit/clithon snail instead

SAE and Amano have in my experience gone through a lot of the tough algaes.  Shrimp will handle green string / hair algae.
 

That being said I absolutely love the recommendation of the horned nerite snails (clithon species).   It's one of the few I am interested to try and they have that size to do some work!  You also don't have overpopulation issues, but the one drawback is little white snail eggs on the decor. 

[JChristophersAdventures]

I for one, will be using nerite snails, shrimp and otos in my 75G... Although I should bring up the issue of water parameters when it comes to Nerites. Some people have difficulty with Nerites due to one or more factors including low PH, missing trace minerals including salt, being out-competed for food, etc. Not that I am letting any of that change my mind. lol It is even being suggested that a small amount of marine salt might add some critical trace elements nerites need (that are not found in other salt) all without detriment to plants or other livestock. True or false? Don't know.

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by JChristophersAdventures

[beastie]

On 9/2/2023 at 10:20 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

You also don't have overpopulation issues, but the one drawback is little white snail eggs on the decor. 

I think that is only true with the zebra nerites, the usual ones. In my tanks i have zebra, black helmet and various clithons and while you may say i lucked out with a male, the only egg laying one was ever the zebra one. I don't think clithons lay eggs. And i have had over the years many snails, some not surviving at all, while some, like the one egg laying nerites has been alive for six years now and is larger than some of my fish 🙂

On 9/2/2023 at 10:31 PM, JChristophersAdventures said:

critical trace elements nerites need 

Btw there must be some truth to them handling elements differently, because where all my ramshorns shells whiten and crumble, the nerites has nary a scratch, strong growth of shell. I have a cuttlebone but otherwise soft water and neutral water. Even the rabbit snails shells deteorated and the nerites has been on all this time.

[JChristophersAdventures]

@beastie Exactly. Seems nerites are a bit of a different animal! lol I am researching this before it is time to fill and cycle the new tank. So far, I think my bucket list fish and plants will be okay with a very small dose of marine salt in the tank (a mere fraction of the recommended medical treatment dose). Thanks.

[Lennie]

On 9/3/2023 at 1:26 AM, JChristophersAdventures said:

@beastie Exactly. Seems nerites are a bit of a different animal! lol I am researching this before it is time to fill and cycle the new tank. So far, I think my bucket list fish and plants will be okay with a very small dose of marine salt in the tank (a mere fraction of the recommended medical treatment dose). Thanks.

In my experience horned nerites are extremely sensitive and mostly dont make it more than a couple months, unlike zebras. Zebras seem to be veery hardy in my experience and live much longer.

Ive tried both black-yellow ones and green ones. Both are a no. Would never get horned nerites again myself

[JChristophersAdventures]

@Lennie It seems like there is a big difference between the various Nerites. This is probably due to each variety coming from its own unique area, as opposed to being spread across southeast Asia... some are only from Indonesia, others only found in the Philippines and so on. I intend to start with only a couple of them, and a handful of neo shrimp... the canaries in the coal mine as the first inhabitants other than the plants... low bio-load to begin with.

[TheBlueBeetle]

I keep otos, hillstreams, and panda garras in my 125g community. (temp 77) I really enjoy all three. The ottos are the most consistent algae eaters as far as all over the tank. The hillstreams seem to prefer mostly the glass for algae snackage and the panda garras will eat any food so algae is not their primary focus. I keep the lights just bright enough to keep the algae steady but not intrusive and supplement with repashy soilent green (which it took the otos a while to warm up to). Cheers!

Edited September 6, 2023 by TheBlueBeetle

[Rube_Goldfish]

On 9/2/2023 at 12:52 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

[My otos] spend a lot of time on glass during the day, but at night they will be all over the tank and grazing on those surfaces that need it.

That's interesting, because my otos are the opposite: when the lights are on I only ever see them tucked into some wood or rockwork, or in a bunch of leaves, but when the lights are dimmed is when I see them hanging on the glass.

[nabokovfan87]

On 9/5/2023 at 5:02 PM, Rube_Goldfish said:

That's interesting, because my otos are the opposite: when the lights are on I only ever see them tucked into some wood or rockwork, or in a bunch of leaves, but when the lights are dimmed is when I see them hanging on the glass.

Yeah, just depends on the setup.  Until recently I didn't have a lot of cover in the middle of the tank / substrate level.  I am improving that.  CO2 during lighting hours plays a role too.  During the night, they are "out in the open" so to speak on the wood and playing around with where the amanos graze at night.