Can't get rid of ammonia in tank

[CinGA]

I have a little 3 gallon shrimp tank I set up three months ago.  Fluval stratum substrate, one piece of spider wood, annubias, java moss, and one dwarf lilly plant, as well as Salvnia minima on top. Two filters - a sponge and the HOB that came with the tank.  Before I did a water change yesterday, ammonia was 0.25, nitrites zero, nitrates were about 80 ppm.  I did about a 90% water change to get the nitrates down and hopefully get it ready to stock.  Today the ammonia is close to 1 ppm.  I thought it was finally getting close to done and now the ammonia shot back up again.  I used remineralized RO water for the water change.  Temp is usually 74-77F, ph is about 6.4.

What is going on with this tank?  Every time I change the water, the ammonia goes back up (I had this happen before, but stopped doing water changes for a couple of weeks and it got down to 0.25).

 

Advice?  Thanks

[Janoš Bećar Pecaroš]

Did you test your water source?

[CinGA]

Yes, meant to mention that.  Water source is clear - no ammona.  

[Janoš Bećar Pecaroš]

Fluval stratum, generally, doesn’t leach ammonia. How are you cycling the tank, where is the ammonia coming from? Food? Ammonium chloride?

Did you try adding a bunch of beneficial bacteria? How about ammonia detoxifier?

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/6/2023 at 11:31 AM, CinGA said:

What is going on with this tank?  Every time I change the water, the ammonia goes back up (I had this happen before, but stopped doing water changes for a couple of weeks and it got down to 0.25).

Certain filtration methods can have a bit of a struggle trying to form those bacteria colonies. Material types and media selection, each different method of filtration has its pros and cons. The main thing I would do is just daily water changes and track everything for a week. Let us know what the test is over that time, day to day.  If you're seeing ammonia skyrocket then you very likely have some type of leeching from the soil or from something that died.

The usual is to smell the tank and check for snails.

On 7/6/2023 at 11:31 AM, CinGA said:

Today the ammonia is close to 1 ppm.  I thought it was finally getting close to done and now the ammonia shot back up again. 

Definitely don't rush it until you've have 1-2 weeks of good water parameters. Give it some time and keep doing your water changes. Especially with new soil it's just mandatory setup time.

[CinGA]

On 7/6/2023 at 2:52 PM, Janoš Bećar Pecaroš said:

Fluval stratum, generally, doesn’t leach ammonia. How are you cycling the tank, where is the ammonia coming from? Food? Ammonium chloride?

Did you try adding a bunch of beneficial bacteria? How about ammonia detoxifier?

The only ammonia source is the stratum.  I never had to add ammonia because it leaches so much.  Early on, I was getting 4-5 ppm every time I test, it leached so much.  

've been adding beneficial bacteria the last week or so.  I will keep doing it.  

On 7/6/2023 at 3:18 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Definitely don't rush it until you've have 1-2 weeks of good water parameters. Give it some time and keep doing your water changes. Especially with new soil it's just mandatory setup time.

I can tell you I will NEVER use Fluval again in any of my tanks.  It's ridiculous to me that it's been leaching ammonia for 3 months now.  By the time it finally stops, it will be time to replace it because it will have worn out.  I used Controsoil in my other tank and it never leached like this - - it's been much better on the whole.  

[Lennie]

It is probably aquasoil as you also guessed so.

Reading no ammonia in my 50 liter tank took much longer than reading no ammonia in my 125 Liter and 160 Liter tanks where I use the same aquasoil (I always use Tropica myself). The small tanks are very prone to parameter changes and 3g is tiny, so I think it is kinda expected. 3 months sound a lil extra tho :') 

 

Usually aquasoils like tropica or ADA are more known to leech than controsoil and stratum. Even as a Tropica user in many tanks, I have never seen it taking 3 months ever to stop reading ammonia

 

[CinGA]

On 7/6/2023 at 4:16 PM, Lennie said:

It is probably aquasoil as you also guessed so.

Reading no ammonia in my 50 liter tank took much longer than reading no ammonia in my 125 Liter and 160 Liter tanks where I use the same aquasoil (I always use Tropica myself). The small tanks are very prone to parameter changes and 3g is tiny, so I think it is kinda expected. 3 months sound a lil extra tho :') 

 

Usually aquasoils like tropica or ADA are more known to leech than controsoil and stratum. Even as a Tropica user in many tanks, I have never seen it taking 3 months ever to stop reading ammonia

 

It makes sense that it would take longer in a small tank - they are just so prone to missteps.  But still, I was thinking it would be a matter of weeks, not months!

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/6/2023 at 1:05 PM, CinGA said:

On 7/6/2023 at 12:18 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Definitely don't rush it until you've have 1-2 weeks of good water parameters. Give it some time and keep doing your water changes. Especially with new soil it's just mandatory setup time.

I can tell you I will NEVER use Fluval again in any of my tanks.  It's ridiculous to me that it's been leaching ammonia for 3 months now.  By the time it finally stops, it will be time to replace it because it will have worn out.  I used Controsoil in my other tank and it never leached like this - - it's been much better on the whole.  

Agreed, contrasoil is pretty awesome!  Ultimately, the leeching is a good thing, just a bit of a pain up front.  Keep doing daily water changes for the next 1-2 weeks and you'll get the soil where you need it to be.  It's part of the process.... this applies to any sort of active soil aquarium substrate.

Week 1: As close to daily water changes as possible
Week 2: Water changes every other day
Week 3: 2-3 water changes per week
Week 4: 1-2 water changes

^^ This is from George Farmer and it's how most places like Green Aqua and others "set up" and cycle in the new soil substrate.

[Guppysnail]

On 7/6/2023 at 2:34 PM, CinGA said:

Yes, meant to mention that.  Water source is clear - no ammona.  

Did you test your water after you used dechlorinator?  If there is chloramine in the water some conditioners don’t break down the ammonia that results from breaking down chloramine. 

[CinGA]

My tap uses chlorine, not chloramine. I’ve called the water department to confirm. I used an RO system to fill my tank, not tap. I have tested the water I put in - it’s not the source water. 
 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Heard of this occurring w/ stratum. Agree with the comments above about extra water changing.

[Galabar]

I wonder.  For these ammonia leaching "active soils," I wonder if it would be a good idea to just put them in a bucket and allow the bucket to slowly overflow (either outside or where there is a drain).  Basically, attempt to leach off the ammonia before adding it to the tank.  After adding to the tank, it sounds like an incredible pain.  50% water changes per then, then every other day, and so on? No thank you. 🙂

 

[CinGA]

I actually wondered about doing that when it comes time to replace it. After all, I don’t want it leaching for MONTHS in a stocked tank. 

[CinGA]

Ok ya’ll. Im confused. I have absolutely tested my source water before and it was clear - no ammonia. But today I tested one of my tanks after doing a water change yesterday and I saw ammonia and super high nitrates when it was zero ammonia and low nitrates prior to the change. it made no sense. So I tested the bucket of remineralized RO water left over after the water change yesterday and got this. 
 

What in the world????!!!  How does RO water end up with such high ammonia?  I now understand why my tanks keeping showing ammonia after water changes but I don’t know how this happens or what to do to fix it. Help please???

[CinGA]

Ok, more info because that strong ammonia reading confused me a lot. It’s possible that test was just wrong because that high a reading makes no sense. 
 

I ran a bunch of new RO water and tested it fresh from the filter. That’s the tube on the right. Then I remineralized it with SS GH+. That’s the tube on the left. You can clearly see the ammonia is higher on the left. Im going to leave the bucket to sit for a day or two and test again - usually my ph will sink if I leave it out. I’ll be curious to see if this changes. 
 

I don’t know what to do ya’ll. I ordered shrimp already because both my tanks were reading zero ammonia. Then I did water changes and it all blew up. I need at least one tank to be stable to keep the shrimp alive once they come (thank goodness they didn’t ship them this week!)

will I have better luck if I use a four stage filter instead of a three stage (the four stage includes the mixed bed DI filter). Do I need to give up on caradinas all together because my water is sh*t and just stick to neo tanks with crushed coral in the filters to keep my water hard enough? (My large tank with cherry shrimp is doing just fine but I just change it with tap water). 

[Maximus]

Are you sure you aren't contaminating the tests? I fully rinse tubes with tap water and then dunk them into the water to be tested a number of times. Also, keeping hands cleaning between tests. Just wondering 

[CinGA]

It’s possible. I try rinsing them out thoroughly several times between uses and then shake any residual water out one more time before filling them but anything is possible. 
 

Im just so frustrated at all this. If my shrimp die this time, I’m going to assume caradina shrimp are simply not for me and give up. 

[Galabar]

Someone else who had an ammonia spike with SS GH+:

https://www.plantedtank.net/threads/salty-shrimp-gh-or-gh-kh.1308163/#post-11340173

However, I'm not sure why that might happen.  Could the SS GH+ be contaminated?  Maybe that have a faulty manufacturing process?

Can you go to the grocery store, buy some distilled water, add the SS GH+ and test it?  Also, rinse out the test tube (and cap & pipette) with distilled water before the test.

Also, can you just test your RO water with and without SS GH+ added?