Blackout method and UV Sterilizer had exact OPPOSITE effect and now i have a ton of green water 3 days later - WTH?

[rob_dixon]

Hi guys, whoah now this one has me perplexed, dismayed, and if i wasnt excited about a new tank i am making would leave be beaten.

After struggling many weeks with cloudy water (a hint of green, but also where you can visually see "dust" swirling around in the water), I decided to buy a UV fertilizer.  And to speed into "turbo mode" clarity I went into kill mode and decided to do a blackout.  I removed most of my fish to another tank (which is a non planted one and crystal crystal clear BTW).  I left the shrimp as they are hard to catch and left the 4 Ottos as they are stress cases.  I turned off C02 and covered so ZERO light got in for what has now been 3 days.

Today I took my first peek and OMG its like pea soup in there now!!!

And this time its DEFINITELY GREEN.  I tested all parms and as always I have zero ammonia, zero Nitrite, zero nitrate and a pH of 7.4. So if a 3-4 day blackout and total absence of light is supposed to kill algae, how do you explain this?

If anything, I might expect to see a bacteria bloom feeding on the now presumed to be dead algae, but nope, this is not white milky water but super greeeeeen. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by rob_dixon

[rob_dixon]

Today I plan to remove this tank from the blackout and basically at this point just "give up" for a while and see where it gets me.   I kind of racked my brain on everything and one theory i have is the way i did my substrate.  Not only is it very very deep towards the back, but I used a mesh bag full of lavarock underneath to lift the rocks and a plastic light diffuser from home depot not really intended for being under water.  It is possible that the combo of all this is resulting in a crazy bacterial, detritus, and material degradation party that will take a lot longer to work through than "normal"

And on the abnormal side, although i seemingly have defied all known science and grew a ton of green water algae in the total absence of light, I will put this "miracle" aside and work on my new tank. hahaa  😄

[redfish]

Sorry you are having trouble with this tank. Is this the same tank you were discussing the Co-op's Easy fry fish food and thought the food was causing issues?

[Odd Duck]

If you have that kind of algae bloom with the UV filter and blackout, think how bad it would have been without those steps.  Be very careful adding any light at this stage because it can always get greener!  Ask me how I know.  😆 😝 I would continue the blackout and probably do a big water change although that’s commonly recommended against.  There’s something feeding that green that you need to clear out.  Assuming you don’t have tons of nitrates in your tap.  Maybe add some floaters if you don’t want to keep going on the blackout for a few more days.

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/14/2023 at 2:16 PM, Odd Duck said:

If you have that kind of algae bloom with the UV filter and blackout, think how bad it would have been without those steps.  Be very careful adding any light at this stage because it can always get greener!  Ask me how I know.  😆 😝 I would continue the blackout and probably do a big water change although that’s commonly recommended against.  There’s something feeding that green that you need to clear out.  Assuming you don’t have tons of nitrates in your tap.  Maybe add some floaters if you don’t want to keep going on the blackout for a few more days.

 

OMG wow. That reminds me of something...

[Odd Duck]

On 6/14/2023 at 1:23 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

OMG wow. That reminds me of something...

That’s pretty much how I felt while it was happening.  I never get green water like that unless I’m setting up a display tank.  Then it never fails to appear.  🤦🏻‍♀️ 🤷🏻‍♀️🙄

[rob_dixon]

On 6/14/2023 at 11:10 AM, redfish said:

Sorry you are having trouble with this tank. Is this the same tank you were discussing the Co-op's Easy fry fish food and thought the food was causing issues?

Yep. Same one.  The apparent fry food overfeed is what began the troubles and it has not gone back in true balance since.  I am open to any ideas at this point but i think from all i read you basically just let it do its thing. 

The most hilarious part of this story? I have a huge housewarming on Friday with a ton of friends where we "Show off" all the work we did on the home and this was "the cherry on top"!  Which is why i went nuclear with a blackout and UV light to get ready, but now its comically bad, looks like pea soup, and I am snickering just typing this. 😂   If you dont laugh you would cry.

Edited June 14, 2023 by rob_dixon

[Odd Duck]

Do a big water change on Thursday to at least dilute the look and tell people “it’s a natural part of fish tanks” and “fish love green water”.  😆 They actually do, you know.  I try to cultivate it for some species.  It’s much harder to maintain than you might think.  😝. Sometimes I deliberately put micro-predators into stubborn green water tanks that I would like to clear because I know they will enjoy it and benefit from it plus they will clear the tank for me.  I specifically put Pygmy sunfish into my 6G Buce cube for exactly that reason and they’re doing a great job.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Odd Duck

[AndEEss]

Can you name the specific pieces of equipment you're using, or provide any pictures of your setup? 

I can't imagine having any water-borne algae with an appropriately sized UV sterilizer. 

[rob_dixon]

On 6/14/2023 at 11:20 AM, Pepere said:

Phospate levels?

No test kit for that.  I could get one but can assume they are high.  I know phosphate causes algae. I know "In well water, phosphate often comes from the leaching of lawn" and literally 3/4 of my tank is a lawn of dwarf grass.  But there is nothing I would seemingly do differently with this tank unless i want to throw phosphate reduction chemicals at it as a bandaid. 

[Odd Duck]

When they say “leaching from the lawn” it’s from fertilizers applied to your yard seeping into ground water and into the well water, not leaching from the actual grass plants.  Your “grass” in your tank isn’t causing the problem.

[rob_dixon]

 

 

On 6/14/2023 at 12:04 PM, AndEEss said:

Can you name the specific pieces of equipment you're using, or provide any pictures of your setup? 

I can't imagine having any water-borne algae with an appropriately sized UV sterilizer. 

Right??  And keep in mind what happened here......this is not "just" an algae issue, - we all have those from time to time.  Here, the green water clearly grew exceptionally worse with ZERO light.  At least here on Day 4.  I have yet to find a reference where this is stated as even possible in nature but it 100% happened.

Anywho:

• UNS 20 gal with a calculated amount of 15.5 gallons after hardscape volume.
• Running a Oase Thermo Biome filter 250 with all sponge and the provided Bio-X.  Rated 250 GPH, (so 15x turnover)
• UV sterilizer is the Fluval in Line UVC Clarifier running 24 hours for the 4 days (3.5 days while under blackout)
• ADA Amazonia v.2 soil

Prior to black out:

• Twinstar 600S light
• Co2 setup
• And at one time a Twinstar Algae inhibitor since inception., but I found this to be a questionable use of money, as certainly algae still grew (so I am not using it anymore).  But this is one of those things where I only found only 1 video (MJ Aquascaping) where a true test was ran.  He claimed to see it worked, but I am shocked there is no additional solid "proof" on this.  Anyway I digress.
• An ADA skimmer - another questionable use of money that somehow gets great reviews - meanwhile I have a TON of gripes with it.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by rob_dixon

[rob_dixon]

Thanks, Just bought a test kit.

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/14/2023 at 10:09 AM, rob_dixon said:

And on the abnormal side, although i seemingly have defied all known science and grew a ton of green water algae in the total absence of light, I will put this "miracle" aside and work on my new tank. hahaa  😄

.........alright. So there's a few big questions here.

1.  What is the substrate, I assume it's all new and new tank, lots of excess leeching nutrients in the water?
2.  What method did you use to black out the tank?  Some methods aren't a pure "blackout".  If that tank is near a window, if you're not using a solid blackout material, there still could've been light going through. 
3.  During the blackout, was there any stagnant water causing issues?  I have seen some methods where people turn off filtration and everything, that should always be running!

On 6/14/2023 at 12:32 PM, Pepere said:

phosphate reducing pads could help…

seachem also sells phosguard.  Carbon should help too I would think, but carbon is the essential of "magic" when it comes to trying to understand what it removes for me!

On 6/14/2023 at 11:47 AM, rob_dixon said:

Yep. Same one.  The apparent fry food overfeed is what began the troubles and it has not gone back in true balance since.  I am open to any ideas at this point but i think from all i read you basically just let it do its thing. 

Have you done a deep siphon cleaning on the substrate?

[Andy's Fish Den]

Check the directions of the UV clarifier you installed. For a UV filter to work properly, it will have a set amount of water it can work in, so if the flow through the unit is higher, it will not work properly. I have not used one for years, but the one I used on a reef tank before had it's own powerhead unit matched to the UV unit so the flow was correct. 

How bright green was the water before you did the black out? Did it seem to "dull" the green? If so, then it may have been working, and just needs longer than the time you had it blacked out. 

How blacked out was the tank? I've seen when people do a black out they just use a sheet or a blanket, and some light will penetrate through. You need to make sure it is completely blacked out, zero light getting through to the water, so front, back sides, top, even bottom if you have a thin layer of substrate. A lot of people will think they have a background so no light gets through, and it may along the edges. 

If none of that works, me personally, I would drain as much water out using a gravel vac getting any detritus out of the substrate and refill and start over, alsop being sure to clean filter media as well. If the lights are dimmable, turn them down and if not, put on a timer and gradually increase. 

[rob_dixon]

On 6/14/2023 at 1:47 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

1.  What is the substrate, I assume it's all new and new tank, lots of excess leeching nutrients in the water?
2.  What method did you use to black out the tank?  Some methods aren't a pure "blackout".  If that tank is near a window, if you're not using a solid blackout material, there still could've been light going through. 
3.  During the blackout, was there any stagnant water causing issues?  I have seen some methods where people turn off filtration and everything, that should always be running!

Have you done a deep siphon cleaning on the substrate?

On 6/15/2023 at 3:22 AM, Andy's Fish Den said:

Check the directions of the UV clarifier you installed. For a UV filter to work properly, it will have a set amount of water it can work in, so if the flow through the unit is higher, it will not work properly. I have not used one for years, but the one I used on a reef tank before had it's own powerhead unit matched to the UV unit so the flow was correct. 

How bright green was the water before you did the black out? Did it seem to "dull" the green? If so, then it may have been working, and just needs longer than the time you had it blacked out.

 

1)    Substrate is ADA Amazonia v.2 with powersand (so yeah a ton of nutrients I am sure even 4 months later)

2)     I used wood on top to prevent the blanket from entering the water, kept filter running in full) and placed a heavy blanket on top (and all around) and yeah no light gets through. I even “sealed” the bottom area by folding the blanket in such a way and securing it with a chair.

3)     No stagnant water, I raised my lily pipe up high to create turbulent, oxygenated water - very noisy!

4)     I did a “Deep clean” of the substrate (as best I could) right before the blackout and a 75% - ish water change.

 

TO Andy, I do have the flow on max flow which is a LOT for this tank so you might be on to something.  The water in theory is whipping by the light that is for sure.  BUT I alos read that speed of flow (time contact with water) is not as impactful as we think – it’s the frequency at which it passes.  (aquarium science.org)

The water was NOT bright green and in fact initially I was having trouble distinguishing between a bacterial bloom versus an algae one.  It was just dull and cloudy for 3+ weeks but an extract of the water had a hint of green which is when I determined it was algae.  Note you can visually SEE the “stuff” floating around like smoke in the tank!!  

Now after blackout (4 full days NO light)  it is clearly very green and thick compared to before.  Again, this blanket was thick.

Note that through all this one thing I did not do was mess with my filter sponges too much.......I did rinse out the pre-filter, but left the others alone as I do not want to disrupt the bacteria colony.

ANyway i officially ended the blackout this morning.....4 total days blackout.

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by rob_dixon