Why are my plant leaves black

[Saly]

Hi everyone,

Im hoping to get some help diagnosing what may be adding with my plants as well as seeking advice on what I should do. This so be long so thank you in advance for reading.

So my plants in my tank are turning black. They were gradually turning black and I decided to test my water parameters. Turns out I have really high phosphates. Using the API test kit, it was way past the last color block (10ppm). I did a 50% water change and the phosphates measured 5-10ppm. The color was a bit darker than 5 but not quite 10ppm. I found out a few weeks ago that I had only 5ppm of nitrates and so I dosed it with easy green fertilizer to get it up to 10-20ppm of nitrates. This morning, I go to dose but instead I use seachem flourish nitrogen at 1 cap full. I wanted to be conservative. Seachem web calculator said I should use 5 caps to get up from 5ppm to 15ppm. I also dosed flourish per bottle instructions. I tested my nitrates 30 minutes later and it was 10-20ppm. Well now I come home and my plants seem darker. Like some of the leaves are black. Not sure if it's from the seachem products or of it's because my phosphates are so high. They've been high for a week now. I just got my phosphates test kit (API) so I was just recently able to test it.

I went to my lfs and was told to just fix the nutrients and the phosphates should decrease eventually and it won't harm my plants or fish. I didn't need to remove the phosphates chemically (seachem phosguard).

I'm also using neutral regulator, which I recently learned had phosphates. I was told to dose it when each time mg ph dropped so ive dosed it 3 times this week. My KH is a bit low (3 deg) and I have aquasoil so it is pulling my ph down.

I'm also running CO2 (diy) with a drop checker. Although i don't think I'm injecting enough. It's green not but within the 2 hours. Its so a darker green not a lime green at 2 hours. 

Thoughts on my plants turning black and what i should do with the whole phosphates situation. My water parameters and supplemental info are below both the tank and my tap: pictures of blackened leaves are attached as well: the last photo where everything seems not a bad was taken yesterday evening.:

Tank size : 10 gal , Soil: ada Amazonia, Light: twinstar light II 450c (on for 7 hours total : 3 hours on, off for 7, on for 4.)

tank parameters as of tonight (Seattle): 

Ammonia & nitrates : 0ppm

Nitrates: 5ppm

Ph : 6.4

Kh: 3 

Gh:5 (also using equilibrium)

Phos: 5-10ppm (color is somewhere between those 2)

 

Tap water parameters:

Ph: 7.2

Kh: 4

Gh: 2

Phos: 0

Livestock : 1 Betta, 3 amano shrimp. They seem fine. 

Plants: carpeting grass, java Fern, anubias, tiger liies, vals, Amazon swords, and a couple others that Im not too sure of. 

If you made it this far, thanks again!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Saly
Forgot to attach a 4th photo

[Lennie]

Hey there @Saly,

On 3/18/2023 at 8:09 AM, Saly said:

Soil: ada Amazonia

As you may know, aquasoils leech a lot of nutritions in the first couple weeks and require lots of big water changes during these times. These excess nutritions may trigger algae bloom as well. I personally don't add any fertilizers to the water column for the first weeks if I use aquasoil as there seems to be many leeching already, and plants go through an adapting phase where they melt, try to get used to their new environment, and don't really perform any growth to potentially use the nutritients. So anything excess that plants can't use favors potential algae.  Big water changes during these early weeks help to get rid of excess nutritions and potential algae spores as far as I know.

What has been your water changing schedule since it is set up?

I'm leaning on the side of early stage of bba. @nabokovfan87 what do you think?

Have you tried scrubbing the leaves? Does it come out easily like a diatom? Or Does it look similar to this video?

 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Lennie

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/17/2023 at 10:09 PM, Saly said:

Turns out I have really high phosphates.

On 3/17/2023 at 10:09 PM, Saly said:

I'm also using neutral regulator, which I recently learned had phosphates.

Yeah.  Seachem's stuff is a bit weird.  there is PH up/down and then there is a planted tank version and a non-planted tank version.  I think you'd either need alkalinity buffer or acid buffer (depending if you're trying to bring KH up or down).  Equilibrium would be the planted tank version to adjust GH.
 

On 3/17/2023 at 10:09 PM, Saly said:

Thoughts on my plants turning black and what i should do with the whole phosphates situation.

I would try to use phosphate remover (seachem has phosguard) and their is also phosphate pads you can use.  It didn't have a crazy quick impact when I was trying to get my phosphates down from 3 ppm, but perhaps I just wasn't using enough or something.

As Lennie mentioned, water changes help, just don't do too much too often.  The BBA tends to have a 7-10 day cycle for me.  If I miss a water change it blooms, sends out the spores, and then progresses incrementally.  In the photos I see GDA (green diatom algae) and other algaes.  The green I generally don't worry about, balance the tank and it will just become fish food.  I would tend to do a 30-50% water change every day or every other day to get the phosphates down.  It shouldn't bother the stocking and your amanos will be very active after each one.  🙂

Some of your plants I'm just not familiar with what they should look like so I think @Seattle_Aquarist is a great person who can help us all understand a bit about any deficiencies or next steps for this situation.  Getting the right buffer is going to be helpful to keep phosphates in check.  Running carbon / phosguard might be the way to get the number down and sort of "reset" everything that you need to.

[Saly]

On 3/18/2023 at 1:03 AM, Lennie said:

Hey there @Saly,

As you may know, aquasoils leech a lot of nutritions in the first couple weeks and require lots of big water changes during these times. These excess nutritions may trigger algae bloom as well. I personally don't add any fertilizers to the water column for the first weeks if I use aquasoil as there seems to be many leeching already, and plants go through an adapting phase where they melt, try to get used to their new environment, and don't really perform any growth to potentially use the nutritients. So anything excess that plants can't use favors potential algae.  Big water changes during these early weeks help to get rid of excess nutritions and potential algae spores as far as I know.

What has been your water changing schedule since it is set up?

I'm leaning on the side of early stage of bba. @nabokovfan87 what do you think?

Have you tried scrubbing the leaves? Does it come out easily like a diatom? Or Does it look similar to this video?

 

 

Hi Lennie, I forgot to mention in my original post that my tank is 6 months old so I would expect the leaving to stabilize by now. I went ahead and did a 50% water change and while at it, I scrubbed the leaves. It comes off pretty easily like diatoms. It looks like it's the same things on the rocks. It doesn't look at anything like the video so I don't think it's bba. Ive attached a photo of what came off when scrubbed. 

[Saly]

On 3/18/2023 at 1:26 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Yeah.  Seachem's stuff is a bit weird.  there is PH up/down and then there is a planted tank version and a non-planted tank version.  I think you'd either need alkalinity buffer or acid buffer (depending if you're trying to bring KH up or down).  Equilibrium would be the planted tank version to adjust GH.
 

I would try to use phosphate remover (seachem has phosguard) and their is also phosphate pads you can use.  It didn't have a crazy quick impact when I was trying to get my phosphates down from 3 ppm, but perhaps I just wasn't using enough or something.

As Lennie mentioned, water changes help, just don't do too much too often.  The BBA tends to have a 7-10 day cycle for me.  If I miss a water change it blooms, sends out the spores, and then progresses incrementally.  In the photos I see GDA (green diatom algae) and other algaes.  The green I generally don't worry about, balance the tank and it will just become fish food.  I would tend to do a 30-50% water change every day or every other day to get the phosphates down.  It shouldn't bother the stocking and your amanos will be very active after each one.  🙂

Some of your plants I'm just not familiar with what they should look like so I think @Seattle_Aquarist is a great person who can help us all understand a bit about any deficiencies or next steps for this situation.  Getting the right buffer is going to be helpful to keep phosphates in check.  Running carbon / phosguard might be the way to get the number down and sort of "reset" everything that you need to.

Yeah I've been reading up on the buffers and you're right, I think I actually need the alkaline buffer, the carbonate based one. Since I'm trying to raise my KH to stabilize my pH a bit, I was actually thinking of using some crushed coral in my filter. Id go slowly because I'm  only trying to raise it a little bit. I figured I'd try to go the natural route. Thoughts? Id still be using equilibrium for the gh. 

As far as bba goes,I don't think it's bba as it doesn't look anything like the video posted in earlier comment. In a reply to Lennie, I posted photos of what came off the leaves when I rubbed them. 

I just did a 50% water change. You mentioned I could do a 30-50% water change everyday or every other day. A 50% water change EVERYDAY wouldnt stress the livestock out? It's not too much too often? And should I be doing water changes AND using the phosphguard? 

[Mmiller2001]

As you mention, Neutral Regulator uses phosphates to buffer the water and as a result, raises P very high. I would stop using it as it's not needed. I'd also stop using a siesta because you are dosing CO2 and is completely unnecessary. If you are doing it for viewing pleasure, simply change the light schedule to come on when you are home and run the light continuously for the duration (8 hours is a good duration).

The BBA is a result of low and fluctuating CO2, you need to get the CO2 right and keep it stable. Do large and consistent water changes and dose nutrients to keep your ppm targets. Unless you have a species requirement, I would ignore KH and stop trying to maintain a higher value. I run 0dKH and a fluctuating pH is not a stability indicator. As many do, because of misinformation, want to keep a certain KH; using Potassium Carbonate/ bicarbonate is the better option to raise KH.

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/18/2023 at 2:30 AM, Saly said:

I figured I'd try to go the natural route. Thoughts? Id still be using equilibrium for the gh. 

I just use a ratio of the alkaline buffer. If you don't want the coral to be a part of the substrate, my use has been that I didn't have enough room / qty in a filter to keep kh where I wanted with coral. In the filter is a great option, just not in my equipment setup. I use the buffer because I run black substrate as well.

Edited March 18, 2023 by nabokovfan87
weird spacing issue

[rockfisher]

On 3/18/2023 at 9:18 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

As you mention, Neutral Regulator uses phosphates to buffer the water and as a result, raises P very high. I would stop using it as it's not needed. I'd also stop using a siesta because you are dosing CO2 and is completely unnecessary. If you are doing it for viewing pleasure, simply change the light schedule to come on when you are home and run the light continuously for the duration (8 hours is a good duration).

The BBA is a result of low and fluctuating CO2, you need to get the CO2 right and keep it stable. Do large and consistent water changes and dose nutrients to keep your ppm targets. Unless you have a species requirement, I would ignore KH and stop trying to maintain a higher value. I run 0dKH and a fluctuating pH is not a stability indicator. As many do, because of misinformation, want to keep a certain KH; using Potassium Carbonate/ bicarbonate is the better option to raise KH.

I’m in the same boat with KH I run 0. I don’t have a lot of ph fluctuation. It is on the low side at 6.6-6.8 in most tanks. It’s not really and issue as I have mostly Amazon river fish. I agree with you @Mmiller2001