Brine shrimp hatchery airline options/questions

[Rube_Goldfish]

I just got a Ziss brine shrimp hatchery and will soon try my first ever brine shrimp hatching. I have two questions for the Ziss and DIY veterans here, though.

1) Do you use an airstone or just an airline at the end, inside the hatchery? (My Ziss came with an "air diffuser" rather than an airstone, but I figure it would be a horse apiece.)

2) Does your sequence go: air pump-check valve-air valve-hatchery, or  pump-air valve-check valve-hatchery? Does it matter at all?

Thanks in advance!

[TOtrees]

Clydesdale po-tah-to. 

If your air pump or source is above the hatchery, you don’t need a check valve. I don’t think it matters which comes first, and if it does I imagine the difference is minor or technical. In other words go ahead and do it either way, I don’t see any issues. 

“Coarse” bubbles are better than fine in this case, so the included diffuser thingy is just fine. 

[MattyM]

I don't use a diffuser in mine - there's a co-op video somewhere on how they do it, and they don't use one and they also attach a bit of airline tubing inside the Ziss and then connect the hard air tube to that - this way is gets down into the center of the hatchery. 

Here I found the info I think: https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/faqs/ziss-hatchery-installation

[AllFishNoBrakes]

As stated by others I do the following:

-tiny piece of airline tubing to connect the rigid tubing. No air stone. 
-I use the usb nano pump and hang it from my cabinet handle. This keeps the pump about the same height as the hatchery with a drip loop so I do not need a check valve. I do have an air valve in that line though. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by AllFishNoBrakes

[Ali]

I just got this hatchery, so not a veteran here, but here is what I learned on my first go.

1. I would put a check valve somewhere in the line just in case. For me, my hatchery stands taller than my air pump, so it's essential to protect my pump with the check valve. I also moved my hatchery quite a bit in the setup, monitoring, and harvesting process, so I was happy to have it.

2. I liked the airstone! I have extra Ziss never clog airstones. I found that the course bubbles were causing so much movement in my blender. I get it, that's the point. However, I gave it a go with an airstone loosely tightened so the stone gives medium-sized bubbles, and I was satisfied with that. Still plenty of surface agitation in the hatchery. My spouse actually asked me, "I know they call it a brine shrimp blender, but is it actually blending?!" after noticing how much motion the air gave in the blender. 

My first hatch was stellar. I have more brine shrimp than I know what to do with. I'm currently googling how long these BBS will stay alive because I have such a huge yield. Super psyched about the Ziss hatchery so far!

[AllFishNoBrakes]

@Ali I hatch 1 tablespoon per week and like 90% of it gets frozen to use throughout the remainder of the week. 10% gets fed live. Works great for me. 

[tolstoy21]

In also use the included plastic diffuser. I find when I don't use it, my rigid tubing clogs up with salt over the course of a few days. The plastic diffuser will also clog, but they screw apart into multiple pieces and I just swirl those in a cup of warm water and put them back on.

I like the plastic diffusers so much I've been trying to find some. Seems they sell them overseas but not in the states, from my hunting around. 

If the hatchery is above your air pump, use an check valve.

Edited February 15, 2023 by tolstoy21

[Jeff]

No airstone, no diffuser; both not needed IMO.

I go: usb air pump, tubing, top of container, a little tubing under the lid, long straw provided

@AllFishNoBrakes how do you get your shrimp so bright orange? And how do you keep your trey so clean? 🙂

[AllFishNoBrakes]

@Jeff When it comes to the color of the BBS 🤷‍♂️. I simply buy the ACO eggs and put ‘em in the hatchery with the instructions provided. I prefer a 36 hour hatch. 
 

As far as the sieve, I literally just rinse it real good under the hottest water that will come out of the tap. I try to keep things simple, lol. 

[Rube_Goldfish]

@TOtrees, @MattyM, @AllFishNoBrakes, @Ali, @tolstoy21, @Jeff: Thanks so much!

This has all inspired a new question, though: I know some people will hatch and feed live BBS every day, and I know that Don't Overfeed and Feed a Variety of Foods are two of the commonly cited guidelines, and I'm having a hard time reconciling all that.  Are the daily-hatch people mostly feeding fry, or feeding so many tanks that each tank only gets a little bit of BBS and then a little bit of something else, too? 

In my case, I've got a small amount of fry in a community tank but I'm not seriously trying to breed anything, so BBS is mostly just a supplement to commercial foods and a sort of enrichment for the adults, as well as a fry food.  And while freezing leftovers is a great idea, that's not an option for me at the moment; brine shrimp and all other live critters are barred from the shared refrigerator and freezer, which is fair.  So I guess I'll just start very small (1/8 teaspoon?  1/16th?) and work up from there, feed live BBS for a day or two each week, and commercial food the rest of the time.   (I hope that ramble all made sense!)

[EleanorM]

I bought a Ziss at ACO when I was there last week and am setting up for my first hatch in it!  Thanks for getting this going so I didn’t have to ask!

[tolstoy21]

I feed fry daily, as well as adults I want to encourage to spawn.

In your scenario, I would make a batch, feed some live with a pipette, and then freeze the rest in cubes that you can thaw and use to feed throughout the week. This will cut down on the work you need to put in as you won’t need to hatch daily.

How much to feed? How much to make? That takes a bit of experimentation and trial and error to dial in, in my experience.

[Ali]

On 2/16/2023 at 12:09 AM, Rube_Goldfish said:

@TOtrees, @MattyM, @AllFishNoBrakes, @Ali, @tolstoy21, @Jeff: Thanks so much!

This has all inspired a new question, though: I know some people will hatch and feed live BBS every day, and I know that Don't Overfeed and Feed a Variety of Foods are two of the commonly cited guidelines, and I'm having a hard time reconciling all that.  Are the daily-hatch people mostly feeding fry, or feeding so many tanks that each tank only gets a little bit of BBS and then a little bit of something else, too? 

In my case, I've got a small amount of fry in a community tank but I'm not seriously trying to breed anything, so BBS is mostly just a supplement to commercial foods and a sort of enrichment for the adults, as well as a fry food.  And while freezing leftovers is a great idea, that's not an option for me at the moment; brine shrimp and all other live critters are barred from the shared refrigerator and freezer, which is fair.  So I guess I'll just start very small (1/8 teaspoon?  1/16th?) and work up from there, feed live BBS for a day or two each week, and commercial food the rest of the time.   (I hope that ramble all made sense!)

I have a similar problem. My little pea puffer will only eat live BBS. Not frozen. It must be swimming. She will not eat live daphnia or live snails. So I’m working out how to have live BBS practically every day for her without too much leftover. I’m continuing to try to wean her on to other foods, but she has to eat. 

I’m experimenting. I found that with my setup my hatch occurred in about 24 hrs. I harvested what I needed for my tanks and kept the heater and air circulating my Ziss blender and was able to harvest more the next day. I turned off my air and on the third day the rest of my BBS were dead. I’m not sure if I can get them to live longer by keeping the air going or if their life is just limited in the blender. 
 

This time I’m just hatching a much smaller batch! Same amount of water and salt but fewer eggs. I’m doing 1/2 teaspoon eggs and expecting leftovers that I’ll again try to keep alive to last a couple days. 

[Rube_Goldfish]

On 2/16/2023 at 6:55 AM, Ali said:

I have a similar problem. My little pea puffer will only eat live BBS. Not frozen. It must be swimming. She will not eat live daphnia or live snails. So I’m working out how to have live BBS practically every day for her without too much leftover. I’m continuing to try to wean her on to other foods, but she has to eat. 

I’m experimenting. I found that with my setup my hatch occurred in about 24 hrs. I harvested what I needed for my tanks and kept the heater and air circulating my Ziss blender and was able to harvest more the next day. I turned off my air and on the third day the rest of my BBS were dead. I’m not sure if I can get them to live longer by keeping the air going or if their life is just limited in the blender. 
 

This time I’m just hatching a much smaller batch! Same amount of water and salt but fewer eggs. I’m doing 1/2 teaspoon eggs and expecting leftovers that I’ll again try to keep alive to last a couple days. 

Before I bought the Ziss* I considered buying this no air pump, hatchery disk (featured in this video:

It hatches the brine shrimp more slowly but also more spread out in terms of time. In my case I was worried about too small a harvest at a time, and adult fish hogging all the BBS, but if you're just trying to feed a single pea puffer, it might do the trick.

*I ended up buying the Ziss instead because I basically knew I would eventually, because I knew I wouldn't be able to resist it, so I just jumped right to it!

[Lennie]

On 2/16/2023 at 2:55 PM, Ali said:

I have a similar problem. My little pea puffer will only eat live BBS. Not frozen. It must be swimming.

I've never kept pea puffers but I've noticed my tetras chasing frozen bbs more when I plug in the HOB back. Filter pushing them around creates a vibe like they are swimming. Maybe it is worth a try?

But tetras are real fast, I assume puffers aren't. :') Just wanted to share

[TOtrees]

On 2/16/2023 at 12:09 AM, Rube_Goldfish said:

Are the daily-hatch people mostly feeding fry, or feeding so many tanks that each tank only gets a little bit of BBS and then a little bit of something else, too?

Yes and yes.

I hatch bbs every 48hrs. The brand I have does well at 36-40 hours, but my schedule works better on 48hr cycles. 

I feed bbs to grow fry, and to condition adults (all my species are small, so bbs is fine food for adults as well as babies). I have plenty of powder foods that I can feed in place of live bbs, but live bbs is relatively easy, and the benefits are high. 

The amount of live bbs that I feed to any tank is based on similar constraints as for prepared foods. I usually want to see the bbs consumed within 5 or 10 mins at most. I know from experience that if it's not eaten quickly, I'll be fighting hydra before long. Not that that's a problem, but it can be a pain. I also don't like to provide so much food that fish (babies or adults) get that super-distended belly appearance. I've found that's a recipe for long-term problems.

In general, live foods are "cleaner" than prepared. I don't have data for this, nor do I know if it's based on fish fed to satiety, or fed a certain volume of food, or a certain amount of nutritional equivalent. But it's what I've heard. So it's another benefit of feeding live bbs over prepared foods. 

[Rube_Goldfish]

On 2/16/2023 at 11:58 AM, TOtrees said:

Yes and yes.

I hatch bbs every 48hrs. The brand I have does well at 36-40 hours, but my schedule works better on 48hr cycles. 

I feed bbs to grow fry, and to condition adults (all my species are small, so bbs is fine food for adults as well as babies). I have plenty of powder foods that I can feed in place of live bbs, but live bbs is relatively easy, and the benefits are high. 

The amount of live bbs that I feed to any tank is based on similar constraints as for prepared foods. I usually want to see the bbs consumed within 5 or 10 mins at most. I know from experience that if it's not eaten quickly, I'll be fighting hydra before long. Not that that's a problem, but it can be a pain. I also don't like to provide so much food that fish (babies or adults) get that super-distended belly appearance. I've found that's a recipe for long-term problems.

In general, live foods are "cleaner" than prepared. I don't have data for this, nor do I know if it's based on fish fed to satiety, or fed a certain volume of food, or a certain amount of nutritional equivalent. But it's what I've heard. So it's another benefit of feeding live bbs over prepared foods. 

So then do you alternate days: live BBS on even days and commercial food on odd days? That sort of thing?

[Andy's Fish Den]

I hatch BBS everyday, how I feed is that all my tanks with smaller fish get some each time. The ones that have fry in the tank or if I am trying to get some to spawn will get more. I also will feed some flake, pellets or frozen. 

[TOtrees]

On 2/16/2023 at 12:02 PM, Rube_Goldfish said:

So then do you alternate days: live BBS on even days and commercial food on odd days? That sort of thing?

It would be better to say I feed "regular" foods every day (sometimes a couple times per day), and I include live bbs every other day. Often, if my daphnia cultures are doing well enough, I'll feed live daphnia on the days I don't feed bbs. 

But on any given day, I might be putting 4-6 different foods into the 15 or so tanks I run at this time. This might include beans for the bns, xylivore pellets for L397s, and a variety of big and small foods for the rest. Fry food or golden pearls for the teeny tiny babies, larger pellets for the community tanks and cories, flakes for the tanks that have lots of guppies (keeps them at the surface so the bottom fish can eat their sinking foods), and 0.5mm pellets for the grow-out tanks. 

But I also have a water change system, so I'm less worried about the amount of food causing fouling/nitrate issues. And to be honest/transparent, some of my grow-out tanks are ridiculously overstocked, so the water system is kind of necessary. 

[Rube_Goldfish]

On 2/17/2023 at 12:23 PM, TOtrees said:

It would be better to say I feed "regular" foods every day (sometimes a couple times per day), and I include live bbs every other day. Often, if my daphnia cultures are doing well enough, I'll feed live daphnia on the days I don't feed bbs. 

But on any given day, I might be putting 4-6 different foods into the 15 or so tanks I run at this time. This might include beans for the bns, xylivore pellets for L397s, and a variety of big and small foods for the rest. Fry food or golden pearls for the teeny tiny babies, larger pellets for the community tanks and cories, flakes for the tanks that have lots of guppies (keeps them at the surface so the bottom fish can eat their sinking foods), and 0.5mm pellets for the grow-out tanks. 

But I also have a water change system, so I'm less worried about the amount of food causing fouling/nitrate issues. And to be honest/transparent, some of my grow-out tanks are ridiculously overstocked, so the water system is kind of necessary. 

That all makes a lot of sense. Thanks for explaining all that!