Mollies, Gourami, and Beta

[Louise02]

A family member stopped at a pet store and purchased fish for my daughter.  We had intended to get one beta for the five-gallon tank and possibly a few tiny shrimp or a snail for the 2.5 gallon tank.  Both tanks have both been running for five months or longer, so we thought that shrimp might survive in one of these tanks.  However, this family member was sold one beta, two mollies, and a gourami.  Yikes!  The female did begin to struggle almost immediately.  She was struggling to breath and her gills turned red.  Per Cory's molly video, I added aquarium salt (that I had luckily previously ordered from AC).  I can't believe it, but she is swimming, eating, acting health!  These new fish are okay at the moment, but we have to do something about this arrangement!  The gourami and mollies are nipping at each other...and the wonderful mystery snail that we have been keeping in the five-gallon aquarium.  My husband did not want for us to start another tank, but I don't know what else we can do.  We are two hours from a pet shop, and we are not going back that way for months.  I hate having the beta female in the 2.5 gallon, but she is quite small yet.  For the moment, she is alright.  I am looking for long-term advise.  Do we have to get a 30 gallon for the mollies and gourami, then move the beta to the five gallon?  Save the 2.5-gallon aquarium for a hospital?  There is no way that we can set up a 10-gallon for the gourami, a 30-gallon for the mollies, and keep the two tanks that we already have established.  That is just too much for a 10-year old to have to deal with.  Of course I am helping her every step of the way, but these are her fish.  Just adding one more large tank is pushing it, but what else can we do?  Before we spend a bunch of money, I would like to have a long-term plan.  Any advise is appreciated!  By the way, I had never even seen a (dwarf?) gourami before, and IF I had mollies, it would have been in a community tank 20 years ago.  I am very grateful for any advise regarding any of this.  Thank you!

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Here’s an idea for a quick tank setup. If you do not have a spare, seasoned filter you can use bottled bacteria to get it going and stay on top of water testing to make sure levels are ok. If any problems do water changes with Seachem Prime until the tote gets established (cycled; readings remain stable).

Another idea is to put a post, perhaps on the Nextdoor app, that you would like to adopt out fish. There are bound to be hobbyists near you that can help. Or they may be able to provide used filter media to you so you can start up the tank easily (it will already be cycled).

Technically the betta can stay in the 2.5 gallon “for now” but should be upgraded soon or she will be unhappy and will feel trapped. Betta are intelligent fish, and their environment and swimming space matter for their well being.

A mystery snail has a heavy bioload and really should be in a larger tank, I’d say minimum 10 gallon.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Louise02]

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea Thank you.  We are trying decide what we need to get for additional tanks.  Would a 10-gallon for the gourami and a 20- gallon for the mollies be enough?  I know that some say that mollies should be in a 30.  Is that necessary?  At this point I am thinking that we need one tank per species.  Is it possible that the mystery snail could be in with the mollies if the tank were larger?

So:

2.5-gallon= hospital

5-gallon= beta

10-gallon= gourami

20 or 30-gallon=mollies

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

It looks good. I would think the gourami and the mollies can cohabitate in a larger tank, unless you are planning on breeding the mollies. Tagging @Hobbit and @Guppysnail who have gouramis so they can weigh in. Not sure who has mollies but they are similar to platies, so maybe @Theplatymaster can help review this also? 

[Theplatymaster]

@Chick-In-Of-TheSeanope completely different fish. Platies are smaller, and the genus is different.

[Guppysnail]

The gourami and betta getting along, is going to entirely depend on the personality of the betta. Years ago when I had mollies, I never had anything with him so I can’t weigh in on that but I wouldn’t see a problem necessarily unless the betta had issues.

[Louise02]

On 1/31/2023 at 10:13 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

It looks good. I would think the gourami and the mollies can cohabitate in a larger tank, unless you are planning on breeding the mollies. Tagging @Hobbit and @Guppysnail who have gouramis so they can weigh in. Not sure who has mollies but they are similar to platies, so maybe @Theplatymaster can help review this also? 

Thank you!

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 1/31/2023 at 11:37 AM, Louise02 said:

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea Thank you.  We are trying decide what we need to get for additional tanks.  Would a 10-gallon for the gourami and a 20- gallon for the mollies be enough?  I know that some say that mollies should be in a 30.  Is that necessary?  At this point I am thinking that we need one tank per species.  Is it possible that the mystery snail could be in with the mollies if the tank were larger?

So:

2.5-gallon= hospital

5-gallon= beta

10-gallon= gourami

20 or 30-gallon=mollies

I believe @Irene has mollies. Maybe she can help? I think she has a gourami too!

Edited January 31, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 1/31/2023 at 12:22 PM, Guppysnail said:

The gourami and betta getting along, is going to entirely depend on the personality of the betta. Years ago when I had mollies, I never had anything with him so I can’t weigh in on that but I wouldn’t see a problem necessarily unless the betta had issues.

@Louise02 was wondering if a 10gal would be fine for the gourami, solo? @Guppysnail

Edited January 31, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Guppysnail]

On 1/31/2023 at 12:39 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

@Louise02 was wondering if a 10gal would be fine for the gourami, solo? @Guppysnail

Sorry i misunderstood. I don’t like anything larger than 1 inch living an entire life in a 10g. My betta was in a 20 high. I think it would be fine. I just get a claustrophobic feeling looking in 10 gallon tanks with fish over 1 inch. 

[Huckleberry]

I keep adult mollies in a 30 and use 20's for grow outs. The molly and mystery snail will be fine. I grow them both out in the same tank. 

[Louise02]

On 1/31/2023 at 10:56 AM, Guppysnail said:

Sorry i misunderstood. I don’t like anything larger than 1 inch living an entire life in a 10g. My betta was in a 20 high. I think it would be fine. I just get a claustrophobic feeling looking in 10 gallon tanks with fish over 1 inch. 

Do you have a suggestion?  I need to develop a long-term plan.  If we need four aquariums I want to get that transition going as soon as possible.  Thoughts?  Thank you so much!

BTW, someone nipped an antenna off our Mystery Snail, Turbo.  I know that it is partially due to overstocking, but is it more likely for the gourami to pick on the snail?  I've seen all of them pick on Turbo.

[Guppysnail]

On 1/31/2023 at 1:54 PM, Louise02 said:

someone nipped an antenna off our Mystery Snail,

They all will. Antenna look like worms. A natural and irresistible treat for fish. 

[knee]

If you're planning to upgrade anyway, why not get a 40 breeder instead? The gourami and molly can definitely live in the 40 breeder together with the female betta. You can grow them out in the tanks you currently have right now and move them after a few weeks. 

It's just 10 gallons more than the 30 and the dimensions are better for the fish. Betta and gourami will be able to establish territories, and you can get more fish 😄

[mynameisnobody]

Are your mollies sexed? If by chance you have a male and female or even 2 females, you will be filled to the rim with fry. I’d eliminate those mollies immediately. Even in a 30, any livebearer will make pretty quick work in filling the tank with babies. Mollies being the largest livebearer have fry that are a touch larger than other live bearers, so they may not get picked off by other fish as easily. 

[ccc24]

So I have housed this set of fish species together (and still do). I heavily planted the tank and have a school of mollies (they will reproduce), an opaline gourami, mystery snails and at one time a betta (died of old age). With a big enough tank and going heavy handed with the plants -  you won’t need more than 1 tank. I personally house them with a myriad of other species as well. Heavy planting seems to be the pivotal aspect to keeping peace in the tank - breaking up that line of sight. I’d say the second reason keeping the peace, is I took a page from the African cichlid’s book and overstocked the tank. No one fish gets picked one since there is action somewhere all the time. 
Next, there’s no reason that the mollies can’t live with the gourami and betta. Many people say they can’t, because they assume you want the babies to survive. Maybe you do, maybe you don’t. I personally don’t protect the fry in this tank  - some make it, some don’t. That predation keeps the numbers from getting absolutely ridiculous. It’s actually why I got the gourami to begin with - to predate on the live bearer’s young and keep the numbers down. He does an ok job, but plenty still make it. I’ve also found mystery snails to be pretty smart, they’ll learn who not to mess with, where the good hiding places are and where the food is. Assuming he does fine healing from getting his antenna nipped, he will probably be wiser for it. 

[Louise02]

@ccc24 Thank you for sharing that photograph.  You're on a whole different level!  It's fascinating! 

On 1/31/2023 at 12:06 PM, Guppysnail said:

They all will. Antenna look like worms. A natural and irresistible treat for fish. 

If I move the other fish to a large tank, should I keep Turbo in the five-gallon?  I know that it isn't that big of a tank, but at least he wasn't having his antennae nipped when he was in there alone.

[ccc24]

On 1/31/2023 at 9:59 PM, Louise02 said:

@ccc24 Thank you for sharing that photograph.  You're on a whole different level!  It's fascinating! 

If I move the other fish to a large tank, should I keep Turbo in the five-gallon?  I know that it isn't that big of a tank, but at least he wasn't having his antennae nipped when he was in there alone.

Personally, I wouldn’t if it were my tank (that’s not to say you couldn’t if that’s the look you wanted). I’d put some hiding places in the large tank and call it good. There’s 15+ mystery snails in the tank above (they bred) that happily coexist with the fish. Mine thrive being a part of an ecosystem as opposed to being a single occupant. Single occupant may be protected but the ecosystem around it (plants, scuds, fish) might be missing and making it harder to keep the snail happy and healthy. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

If you want to very quickly “heavily plant” a tank, Java fern. They are full, bushy plants. They don’t go into the substrate, they feed from the water column. you can just drop them all in with plant weights on them.
 

If you then want to create an aquascape, a large piece of driftwood- and attach all the Java ferns to it with superglue GEL. You will want to boil the driftwood first and soak it in a tote before placing in the tank. Until the driftwood stops floating. The Java fern with plant weights can be in the tank in the meantime providing cover for the fish. Easy green will feed the Java fern.

If you are on a tight budget, you can get get value packs of tall, fake plants. Then add live plants gradually as you can afford them.

[Louise02]

On 2/1/2023 at 3:10 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

If you want to very quickly “heavily plant” a tank, Java fern. They are full, bushy plants. They don’t go into the substrate, they feed from the water column. you can just drop them all in with plant weights on them.
 

If you then want to create an aquascape, a large piece of driftwood- and attach all the Java ferns to it with superglue GEL. You will want to boil the driftwood first and soak it in a tote before placing in the tank. Until the driftwood stops floating. The Java fern with plant weights can be in the tank in the meantime providing cover for the fish. Easy green will feed the Java fern.

If you are on a tight budget, you can get get value packs of tall, fake plants. Then add live plants gradually as you can afford them.

Fake plants are a good idea.  I avoided them for obvious reasons, but it's below zero here right now.  I'll order some silks until the weather is cooperative.  Thanks!

On 1/31/2023 at 9:33 PM, ccc24 said:

Personally, I wouldn’t if it were my tank (that’s not to say you couldn’t if that’s the look you wanted). I’d put some hiding places in the large tank and call it good. There’s 15+ mystery snails in the tank above (they bred) that happily coexist with the fish. Mine thrive being a part of an ecosystem as opposed to being a single occupant. Single occupant may be protected but the ecosystem around it (plants, scuds, fish) might be missing and making it harder to keep the snail happy and healthy. 

Got it.  I just didn't want my daughter's precious snail picked to pieces.  I'll give the larger ecosystem a go.  If all else fails, he can go back into his five-gallon.  Thank you!!!

@ccc24 Do you think that I could manage with a 30 gallon, plus the two small tanks as backups or hospitals?  40 is just so big.

BTW, it would be nice to have a few more snails in the mix.  My child loves mystery snails.

Thank you.

[ccc24]

On 2/1/2023 at 10:53 AM, Louise02 said:

Fake plants are a good idea.  I avoided them for obvious reasons, but it's below zero here right now.  I'll order some silks until the weather is cooperative.  Thanks!

Got it.  I just didn't want my daughter's precious snail picked to pieces.  I'll give the larger ecosystem a go.  If all else fails, he can go back into his five-gallon.  Thank you!!!

@ccc24 Do you think that I could manage with a 30 gallon, plus the two small tanks as backups or hospitals?  40 is just so big.

BTW, it would be nice to have a few more snails in the mix.  My child loves mystery snails.

Thank you.

Yes, for the number of fish you listed that size tank is plenty. 
for getting more mystery snails - I lowered my water level a 1-1.5 inches so have a clear space for them to lay eggs and just left them be once they laid. We started with five mystery snails - we now have 15+. They don’t breed as fast as say, guppies - but they do eventually make more if you feed enough ( l specifically feed bottom wafers and crab cuisine to my snails).

[Louise02]

On 2/1/2023 at 12:54 PM, ccc24 said:

Yes, for the number of fish you listed that size tank is plenty. 
for getting more mystery snails - I lowered my water level a 1-1.5 inches so have a clear space for them to lay eggs and just left them be once they laid. We started with five mystery snails - we now have 15+. They don’t breed as fast as say, guppies - but they do eventually make more if you feed enough ( l specifically feed bottom wafers and crab cuisine to my snails).

Fantastic.  Thank you.  Would you happen to know:  Would it be inadvisable to put a gourami or betta in a tall aquarium, since they have labyrinth organs?  It would be a great space saver to have a tall 29-gallon, but I do NOT want to worry about killing one of them.  Better safe than sorry.  Advise?  Thank you so much for your time!

[ccc24]

On 2/2/2023 at 12:09 AM, Louise02 said:

Fantastic.  Thank you.  Would you happen to know:  Would it be inadvisable to put a gourami or betta in a tall aquarium, since they have labyrinth organs?  It would be a great space saver to have a tall 29-gallon, but I do NOT want to worry about killing one of them.  Better safe than sorry.  Advise?  Thank you so much for your time!

The gourami will be fine. Betta - it will depend on the flow/filtration in the aquarium and the amount of finnage it has. Bettas have been selectively bred for more fins, with little regard to their ability to support those fins or swim in a meaningful way (whereas gouramis have not, and handle your average aquarium just fine). I have kept bettas in deep tanks before (such as a 55g) but I always went with female plakats to minimize any swimming issues or anggresion issues. You can try it and just be ready to pull it out (into those hospital tanks). If it is a male with significant finnage, your chances of success go down. It can still be done, but you will have to carefully manage the tank (heavy planting, areas of lower flow, resting spots, smooth decor that won’t snag the flowing fins, etc). 

[JettsPapa]

I didn't read all the responses, so I apologize if this has already been answered.  What kind of gourami is it?  It's likely a dwarf gourami, but maybe not (at least I hope not).

[Louise02]

On 2/3/2023 at 7:21 AM, JettsPapa said:

I didn't read all the responses, so I apologize if this has already been answered.  What kind of gourami is it?  It's likely a dwarf gourami, but maybe not (at least I hope not).

Hello!  Someone else picked out these fish.  Honestly, gourami was never on my list of options, but the salesclerk sold it.  From what I can tell, it looks like a dwarf gourami.

On 2/2/2023 at 6:48 AM, ccc24 said:

The gourami will be fine. Betta - it will depend on the flow/filtration in the aquarium and the amount of finnage it has. Bettas have been selectively bred for more fins, with little regard to their ability to support those fins or swim in a meaningful way (whereas gouramis have not, and handle your average aquarium just fine). I have kept bettas in deep tanks before (such as a 55g) but I always went with female plakats to minimize any swimming issues or anggresion issues. You can try it and just be ready to pull it out (into those hospital tanks). If it is a male with significant finnage, your chances of success go down. It can still be done, but you will have to carefully manage the tank (heavy planting, areas of lower flow, resting spots, smooth decor that won’t snag the flowing fins, etc). 

I don't know what kind of betta it is, but it is a female.  She is so calm and peaceful that I don't want to bother her with a community, but she doesn't eat well.  I will need something to clean up her tank.  I have to offer her a little food, but, so far, what I have offered has ended up in the substrate.  Perhaps switch to live food?