Blackwater Bloody Mary Neo Setup

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/19/2023 at 5:57 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Do the little shrimplets understand how to enter the feeding dish?

Some yes. A lot of them just go for their own grazing spots. Be it the back glass, filter sponge, rock caves, moss or other plants, or just random bits of wood.  It was nice to see all of the little ones with the parents.

[nabokovfan87]

At first, the adults eat and then the little shrimp would go in there at night to get their food. Now they are big enough to just get in and go for it themselves.

[Lennie]

On 5/19/2023 at 6:40 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Do the little shrimplets understand how to enter the feeding dish?

No need

He can't land the food into the dish anyway 😛 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Lennie

[nabokovfan87]

Lol @Lennie

I have a feeding tube and dish. Sometimes the food is powder and or floats. Can't help that....

The distribution and battle for food is kind of why I prefer the setup to have multiple dishes. That would definitely be an easy way to overfeed, but may help better distribute the food to different shrimp over time a bit better.

[Lennie]

On 5/19/2023 at 7:05 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Lol @Lennie

I have a feeding tube and dish. Sometimes the food is powder and or floats. Can't help that....

The distribution and battle for food is kind of why I prefer the setup to have multiple dishes. That would definitely be an easy way to overfeed, but may help better distribute the food to different shrimp over time a bit better.

If you cover the whole substrate with dishes,

You can't miss..

*cough*

I mean you can distribute food well!

[nabokovfan87]

It's slightly difficult to illustrate this in person, but I wanted to show the blackwater tank side by side. It's a very feint coloration.  I hope it's easy to see with these camera settings and the side by side. Both tanks are doing just fine and it's fun to have the contrast.

 

The moss is due for a trim, but for now it's doing well.

Lots of baby shrimp all over the tank.

[nabokovfan87]

Well it's Wednesday.  Time for the clean on the tank.  I did a water change this week due to needing to siphon a bit.

@Lennie Loves to poke fun that I enjoy cleaning the tanks, but let's have some fun and break down a method for How to siphon in a shrimp tank.  I figured something out this time around and I think it might be helpful for some people.

First, a tangent of sorts.  I think a lot of us first saw Cory in his old vlogs or the video below teach us how to clean our tanks.  One of his techniques works well for the exact issue I had today.  If you have a jungle tank, this isn't going to be as easy, but generally speaking the method of "spot treatment" is going to be key to keep shrimp out of your siphon and give you the ability to clean the substrate without concern.

How to "Spot Treat" the substrate
A.  Start your siphon
B.  Pinch the tube of the siphon to stop the flow of water and pause it from sucking up anything
C.  Use the end of the siphon gently to find a place in the substrate itself.  You want to have the end of the siphon submerged 1/4" or so in the sand (or other substrate) so that the shrimp have a low change of ending up in the siphon flow.
D.  Gently release the siphon and you will see the gravel lift and the debris enter the siphon tube.  Pinch quickly and examine for shrimp.
E.  Repeat that method of gently releasing the siphon flow and then with the siphon in the sand you can gently move across the substrate with the baby shrimp on the outside of the tube.  They will move out of the way, just keep your movements slow and intentional.
 

This is a photo from @Chick-In-Of-TheSea 's journal showing the state of my tank before any maintenance today. 


Once I moved everything out of the way we have the following section of sand to clean:


To my shock and surprise there was a lot of waste in the sand.  We can see the color change on the surface, but when you vac the debris you can see that bright white color shift pretty easily.  This was the end of the first bucket


There was no real way to see shrimplets in this bucket.  It was dense with dirt and it was not easy.  I let things settle and dumped out half of the water so I could better see if there were any baby shrimp. Pour slowly, watch for shrimp, and you should be able to lower the water level a little bit. 

This was the substrate after 1 bucket worth of siphoning.

There was a lot of space still needed to be cleaned.  Especially the left, back wall, and entire right wall.  I did not touch the filter this week because the water was brown and very difficult to see the bottom.  Even in a few inches of water.  If I were to clean the filter I would fill the bucket with a little bit of water and then do it with clear water as opposed to siphon water.  Baby shrimp will be in that filter sponge.

Now....  This is how I personally do my water changes.  No drip, no aged water.  I put in a piece of styrafoam on the surface of the water.

Following that I get my water.  Water in = water out.  That is the goal!  I match temperature, add in my dechlorinator, and then dump in the water.  One hand holds the bucket and the other hand holds the styrafoam in place.

After cleaning, this is what the sand looks like.  a slight change, but a lot of waste removed.


......and the shrimp are back to their meal for the day.

 

Hopefully that helps.  If I had a third hand I'd record a video for everyone, but hopefully the photos and the words give a good bit of detail on the method.

I'll run some water tests here shortly and edit the results.  I needed to take a break before doing so.   The Easy Green, Iron, and buffers are dosed in (small amounts) and my hope is that the GH and KH ratio is a bit better now.

Water Test Results: 5/31/2023
Temp: 69.1
Phosphate: 0.75-1.25 ppm (this was hard for me to read, color was blueish, but very light)
KH: 5 deg (89 ppm)
GH: 9 deg (161 ppm)

Edited June 1, 2023 by nabokovfan87
added results

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Edited June 1, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[nabokovfan87]

Update for today:

Sand is cleaned:

ZERO SHRIMP went up the siphon and I did have a batch of new baby shrimp that were still white and very tiny. They were all scooched out of the way when I was siphoning as best as possible.

Testing for today:
KH: 4 deg
GH 8 deg

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/7/2023 at 9:55 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Update for today:

Sand is cleaned:

ZERO SHRIMP went up the siphon and I did have a batch of new baby shrimp that were still white and very tiny. They were all scooched out of the way when I was siphoning as best as possible.

Testing for today:
KH: 4 deg
GH 8 deg

I have the special, invisible non-scooching shrimp. 

The majority I find are not visible w/ the naked eye, not even with a flashlight.  I only find them with magnification aids.  It takes some time, and can only be done after the mulm has settled.  I've also gotten into the habit of leaving the mulm bucket sit til the next day as well, and then I check again in the morning.  I use a magnifying glass that has a sort of bifocal thing on it, and I have also been using the magnifier app.  I need to get something better though. I read a few recommendations on the Flipper magnifier.  The shrimplets are just barely bigger than a grain of sand. They don't necessarily move/swim around either, so I cannot rely on that to locate them.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/8/2023 at 6:26 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I have the special, invisible non-scooching shrimp. 

😂 I hear you.  I know sometimes they are a pain!  Last time I had 4-6 shrimp, this time I only had a small section and there weren't any.  I spent the morning watching the baby shrimp on the glass and they were hatched last night.  They use other places to hide, definitely will be difficult to see (white body on white sand, about the size of a piece of sand), but I spend a good amount of time after cleaning looking for them. 

The method for me is making it feasible.  By no means will I say that I won't suck up a shrimp, but it worked a lot better than before I had all the baby shrimp to worry about.  It's only going to be a bigger issue moving forward as the colony size grows. 

The other thing I did was just picked up a piece of wood and shook off all the debris.  Powder food for the tank!  The filters took up some of the junk, but there was a good amount of wood debris and such for the baby shrimp.  Fun little trick.

On 6/8/2023 at 6:26 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

The shrimplets are just barely bigger than a grain of sand. They don't necessarily move/swim around either, so I cannot rely on that to locate them.

I spend time looking for them in the bucket. Whatever method you're using I would focus on viability of looking for them in a bucket specifically.  You're dealing with needing to have microscope eyes.  Maybe there is a mirrorless camera with a macro lens that is the way to go for you?

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-Alpha-ZV-E10-Interchangeable-Mirrorless/dp/B09BBGN298/ref=sr_1_6?crid=882C7TC9QULK&keywords=sony%2B3%2F4%2Bmirrorless&qid=1686242144&sprefix=sony%2B3%2F4%2Bmirrorles%2Caps%2C192&sr=8-6&th=1
 

There is usually used camera shops that have good deals as people upgrade.

[nabokovfan87]

I would have to go back and verify the dates on everything....

I am sitting at the tank watching them eat. Lots of baby shrimp out and about. I counted as much as I could just to get a feel for what I can see in terms of number of shrimp. ~60 I can visibly count.

So, that being said with however long it's been, starting with 15 or so shrimp, I am now in that range of colony. Baby shrimp born yesterday and 2-3 females ready to go with new baby shrimp hatching here shortly.

[nabokovfan87]

 

[nabokovfan87]

This is little buddy. Shrimp wrangler in training. He decided to help me out today with the fish chores.

[nabokovfan87]

They are too adorable sometimes. Caught Zoey with her tongue. 😂

The pups did better last night sleeping with the tanks.  I brought in buddy's bed (photo above) and he slept right at the feet of the 75G.  In the morning they napped and I spent a good few hours enjoying them with me as the lights phased on.

I noticed as I looked over that the tannins on the shrimp tank are much more visible now.  This is really encouraging and I like that aspect of the tank.  I also have another tank to the right now, 29G, that is intended only for my plants.  I added a chunk of wood to the tank and I hope to see a bit of that same affect just to give the fish (and plants) inside a bit of that atmosphere.  I don't mind the look of it at all, it compliments the water I am using, it gives the sand in these tanks a nice tinge as well.  One of my favorite things is the tune I have on the light and how that impacts the shrimp glow.  I also appreciate that very vibrant green tone all day long in the plants. 

I wish I could aesthetically capture the view, but it's very difficult without a proper camera.

I am keeping an eye on the tank right now mostly just trying to get a grasp of when I can start to sell some shrimp.  I plan to encourage sales of 10+ per order, which just means I really need to have a good base to start with before I remove that many shrimp from the colony.  I have 4 boxes right now ready to go, so we're talking easily 40+ shrimp (hopefully), more including the added 2-3 per box based on order size.

Given the mailing issues I've had this weekend, some new information with regards to shipping items via USPS, I really am just trying to get everything right.  I would like to get some round bottom bags and ultimately feel comfortable shipping these guys out to people who will really enjoy them.  That's the goal.

I don't want to sell anything sub-par and I fully intent to monitor the tank a lot more closely than I have been to really push the quality and other factors moving forward.  I should shortly have a second colony going as well if all things go as planned.  It might be more Bloody Marys, but the ultimate goal here is to have shrimp that I enjoy and to remove a bit of the barriers when it comes to making someone feel successful with shrimp.   The only way to really accomplish that is to have a few key items. 

A.  The right setup, which I think I have dialed in and tested, but need to verify.  There are some sort of minimum recommendations, basically.
B.  The right nutrition and care, which is the one place where I think a lot of people struggle.
C.  Actually getting the shrimp to someone else healthy, without damage, and getting them to into their own tanks without issues as well.

My own experiences with all of the research up front led me to a few failures on my own part.  There is a bit of weird mystery when it comes to Neo and to Caridina species of shrimp.  I am not really certain as to why that happens, but I have experienced that first hand.  Ultimately, the better I feel about keeping this shrimp (and not just amanos), I feel like there is room to add some value to other's experiences.  There is always this intimidation factor.  There is also every video and comment that I've seen that says "just add shrimp, they are so easy, you don't have to do anything."  I think we all know the importance of not speaking in absolutes or claiming a certainty around something.  I have seen examples of that this week as well from other's experiences on this forum.

Hopefully I'll get some better photos soon.  My apologies for not having a ton of them to really share and elaborate.

Edited June 20, 2023 by nabokovfan87
found a photo of the pups.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/20/2023 at 1:54 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Caught Zoey with her tongue. 😂

There is a term for that. It’s called a blep. She is blepping. 🙂

There is a whole subreddit dedicated to cat bleps.

On 6/20/2023 at 1:54 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

getting the shrimp to someone else healthy, without damage

That is a major worry for me. It’s why I don’t buy online. Teejay wants some blues but I’m so scared to mail. Let me know if/where you find round bottom bags?

On 6/20/2023 at 1:54 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

just add shrimp, they are so easy, you don't have to do anything.

 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/20/2023 at 2:13 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Let me know if/where you find round bottom bags?

I think it was guppysnail that posted a thread.

yep!

 

On 6/20/2023 at 2:13 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Teejay wants some blues but I’m so scared to mail.

Don't be! It's not too complicated, shrimp ship really well usually. It's just small things, details a lot of places won't take the time to do but they should. I have some Styrofoam lined boxes, I think they are 8"x8" cubes... But it's perfect size for one shrimp bag or one small fish bag.

The biggest thing is just temp and timing. Shrimp also do very well in breather bags. MST has a video on it, there's tons of them, but I tend to follow a mix of the Dean method with the Rachel O'Leary corydoras method.

The biggest issue I had with shrimp is that when mine arrived they were crushed in the corners..... So tape up the corners like Dean does. The other big issue is they added a piece of mesh, but it stuck to the side of the bag. Right when the bag went in the box the mesh was right on the top of the bag out of water. (Bag on its side, not upright). This is where the breather bags are handy because there's no void of water.

Little details, especially with small shrimp, it's easy when you know what not to do!

Edit: it's amazing how many videos there are of people showing their methods that are 5-10 years old and definitely could lead to issues.  I stand by the two mentioned above. If you need anything I can walk you through it.

Edited June 20, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[nabokovfan87]

As promised, a bunch of photos trying to show shrimp color.

The amanos are doing good too 🙂

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea This is some of the ones I'm seeing as potential culls.  I don't know if it's age or if it's color but there's a few with this sort of a weird color. Could be a bacterial thing too, so I definitely need to keep an eye out.

This is normal color:

I added some moss from the big tank in and they went to town....

And had another party....

And another....

 

The female amano (dark due to molting soon), is going to town on the BBA.... see @Lennie

The male got himself some breakfast and ran to eat his repashy away from the feeding dish.

9 minutes ago, nabokovfan87 said:

You can see one of the more pale ones here.... the left side there you can see one with more of a striped pattern in the red (could just be a male vs. female thing) and then in the top right one that is almost wild looking it's so clear.

All of this could be age, just something to note right now.

From today:

 

Oh man! So tiny.

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by nabokovfan87
added photo and comments

[nabokovfan87]

Found one with SJ on its rostrum. 😞

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

13 minutes ago, nabokovfan87 said:

Found one with SJ on its rostrum. 😞

It’s ok. Not life threatening. Do you have a photo?

[nabokovfan87]

6 minutes ago, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

It’s ok. Not life threatening. Do you have a photo?

It's the male at the end of this video from when we checked the last time. It's about 3/4 of the way through.

That white thing on his nose. It very well could be a damaged antanaee but I'm seeing eggs and everything and it moves like it's SJ when I netted him.

All the culls I pulled, those yellow patches on the gill area all look like eggs to me. I seriously don't know what I'm looking at, but I see that thing on the rostrum and it's pretty clear. Unfortunately.

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

2 hours ago, nabokovfan87 said:

cterial thing too, so I definitely need to keep an eye out.

This is nor

I didn’t see this on any of mine. Then again a lot of my shrimp are very dark blue / navy.

[nabokovfan87]

4 minutes ago, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I didn’t see this on any of mine. Then again a lot of my shrimp are very dark blue / navy.

Yeah. It's hard to tell what is going on there. It's slightly different in person.

I am trying to get a grasp on the "rows of eggs" side of things.

Meds are in. The culls I was pulling, it was sort of all with the same thing of that yellow section right in the gill region (under the shell where it should be).

I had my magnifying glass out trying to ID what was going on. Seeing the SJ wiggle is a pretty distinct movement I think, that's what I saw.

Worst case all of this is preventative and needed done anyways, but.... Idk. Pretty certain at what I saw and confused as can be why I don't see it on a ton of shrimp.

Meds added. We'll see how it goes.

Now I have to figure out the rest of it all.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

5 minutes ago, nabokovfan87 said:

I am trying to get a grasp on the "rows of eggs" side of things

Same. I’m thankful I haven’t seen any. I did remove a lot of molts without inspecting them also. Often doing things on a time crunch.

 

6 minutes ago, nabokovfan87 said:

Seeing the SJ wiggle is a pretty distinct movement

Yes, and they retract fully as well, so like an hour later the shrimp will look fine, then the worms will pop out again. Nasty. 

7 minutes ago, nabokovfan87 said:

Worst case all of this is preventative and needed done anyways

That’s my thought too because I didn’t quarantine my shrimp. I didn’t know enough I guess, when I made my purchase.

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/21/2023 at 1:18 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I saw this dude again. Still has that thing on his nose. Might not be SJ, which was the exact same thing I thought last time. 

I'm definitely too tired and drained to make a full determination, but I'll net him if I have to and get a photo from a better angle and all that.

Coffee first.

Shrimp are doing fine. Acting like basically nothing is going on apart from a water change. The meds are definitely impacting the water and the fine bubbles are quite nice, honestly. I've pulled molts, but they aren't going crazy and losing their shell or anything like that. Not yet anyways.

The amanos on there are doing ok, they are just doing their thing. They have a bit more strength than the neos and especially more leverage, so they can pull the tougher algae.

Luigi is a bit exposed with no wood, but she's hiding and found a spot to call home on the base of the rock. I will have to consider giving her a cave when all this is done. I know she appreciates them.