Blackwater Bloody Mary Neo Setup

[nabokovfan87]

I ended up moving Riddick out of the tank shortly after feeding this morning.  The shrimp food I dropped in first which meant that she was a bit stuck on it.  She was taking up the entire feeding dish.  There were one or two bold shrimp, but they weren't really able to get in there and feed as need be.  Given the molt issue, needing calcium, I cannot rule out that as a stress factor in play so I opted to move her back to her own tank.  It's there for her, which is nice.  I can ensure she gets food despite the vision issues and keep better care for both herself and the shrimp.

There's a lot of shrimplets in the tank.  I was admiring one of the smaller ones this morning.   I put one in the breeder box to guard over the eggs.  I accidently bumped it last night just putting the pup to bed and forgetting.  It was bumped pretty hard this morning due to someone walking out of the room with cell phone in hand and not paying attention. 

I hope the eggs do well.  There's a lot of detritus, but I don't really have high hopes for the eggs.  They are either "ready" and will hatch shortly or they are far too underdeveloped.  All I can really do is wait and hope.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 4/21/2023 at 3:30 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I accidently bumped it last night just putting the pup to bed and forgetting.  It was bumped pretty hard this morning due to someone walking out of the room with cell phone in hand and not paying attention. 

Egg tumbling accomplished. ✔️

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/21/2023 at 6:01 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Egg tumbling accomplished. ✔️

Alright....

I woke up to another dead female who had molt issues and passed.


I moved those eggs and rejiggered the way the breeder box was setup.



I can't really tell you how much it's working or helping, but the eggs don't look great.  If this is all you have, I recommend the above as your setup.  When the shrimp hatch, you can simply remove the gate on the right and then proceed to feed them powdered food.

Here's a look at the eggs.


Not great quality, my apologies for that.  I went ahead and added 3 baby shrimp into the egg section.  After less than 2 days of this being in place, I was not satisfied with the results.  Shrimp add waste and that isn't great to keep the eggs clean.  I ended up pulling a lot of casings or something when I cleaned out the box this morning.  There was just a lot of stuff.  Some of the eggs look unviable or damaged (probably hatched too) and that was just concerning given how little flow this box has.  The shrimp were basically ignoring them, so I added 2 more.  After checking in on it a few times I opted to remove this box and use the Ziss Tumbler.  Fun fact, it says shrimp on the box.  Not really that critical that it says shrimp, but the two other methods I have seen for eggs is to use a net over a sponge or to use a tumbler. 

In the process of doing that, I have ALWAYS struggled to get this particular brand of airline tubing off of devices.  So naturally my day was topped off with breaking the air diffuser on the hang-on breeder box.  Just going to assume the warranty on fluval doesn't cover that, but I'll look into it.

It would not cost them much to improve the design on this part..... Add a web to better support the attachment/removal of the airline, add a fillet on the inside of the diffuser to reduce blockage issues.



I just need some good news, success, and something to go right in this tank.  I really enjoy it and the losses compounding is never going to be easy.

I dumped all the moss from the breeder box into the tank and went ahead and put all the shrimp back into the tank.  Secondly as important, they can eat and I don't have to stress about that as well.  The eggs are out of the way, protected, and gently moving around constantly.

Hopefully everyone is doing well today.... time for some tea and a movie/book.

EDIT: Checking on the eggs tonight and I see some paramecium or that size things jumping around.  I was curious exactly how small newly hatched shrimp are...

Please enjoy.  THIS IS AN AMAZING Video.

I forgot to mention my amanos have been doing this the past 2 days, hatching out zoeys.  One of my females in the neo tank was also doing it and her shell was shiny so I believe she's ok.
 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[nabokovfan87]

Found a dead male now.

 

[nabokovfan87]

I'll let him sit. The eyes look ok.  Might be stuck / paralyzed.  I just don't know.  I feel like I should've left all of them in the tank and not removed them.  The female this morning was for certain passed. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Oh no. I’m so sorry for your struggles/losses.

I went through this myself until the first offspring (and before you educated me on the drip water changes, which I use a ladder and a bucket for) 🙂  - I also had to buy several more shrimp (4) in the process to replace my casualties, and once I did that everyone started mating.

I believe fungus is the main concern for eggs. Isn’t that why the females fan the eggs? The tumbler seems like a good move provided the bubbles won’t hurt the babies, as shrimplets are teeny tiny! I could see them getting knocked around and pushed all over the place but I don’t know for sure. However, leaving the eggs to sit would probably be worse. They could encase in biofilm and then that’s it.

On 4/21/2023 at 9:35 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

EDIT: Checking on the eggs tonight and I see some paramecium or that size things jumping around.  I was curious exactly how small newly hatched shrimp are...

Are you saying you were successful in hatching some shrimplets?

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/22/2023 at 4:47 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Are you saying you were successful in hatching some shrimplets?

Not yet. There are plenty in the tank, not the eggs yet.

On 4/22/2023 at 4:47 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I believe fungus is the main concern for eggs. Isn’t that why the females fan the eggs? The tumbler seems like a good move provided the bubbles won’t hurt the babies, as shrimplets are teeny tiny! I could see them getting knocked around and pushed all over the place but I don’t know for sure. However, leaving the eggs to sit would probably be worse. They could encase in biofilm and then that’s it.

Yeah, they look like they are doing ok. I think I got the current right. All we can do now is wait.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

How is the gentleman shrimp doing @nabokovfan87?

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/22/2023 at 2:35 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

How is the gentleman shrimp doing @nabokovfan87?

Took him out this morning. He passed last night. 😞

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 4/22/2023 at 9:16 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Took him out this morning. He passed last night. 😞

Oh, that’s too bad. Poor guy.

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/22/2023 at 6:47 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Oh, that’s too bad. Poor guy.

I ordered some GH buffer to have on hand and a test kit for KH/GH so I can get a better feel for what the strip test is indicating.

One step at a time. Going to check on the tank now and hopefully it's good things.

[nabokovfan87]

Checking on the shrimp tonight. Feeding day, powder and a few pellets.

You can see the adult there with all of the new baby shrimp and their size. This was basically gen 1.

There is a new batch growing up in the back of the tank that I need to keep an eye on as well.

I added a dash of equilibrium to the tank. I read online (someone said it basically) that the shrimp based buffers have more calcium than something like equilibrium does. Cannot confirm or deny this, calcium is cheap so that would make sense. I want to use equilibrium because that also helps out the plants in all of my tanks.

I also added a bit of a "night light" to my lighting for the shrimp to give them a little time in the red spectrum and encourage that color to develop. Because these are bloody Mary, it might not need to be there, but if you have some blues or greens and a fluval light, this might be an easy way to encourage stronger colorations.  This was verified from a research paper with normal red cherry shrimp under different color lights.

[nabokovfan87]

Went to bed last night and one of the heaters was hot. 76 deg on a 72 deg tank showing on the display. I had the big tank flashing hot temperatures.  Because of that it's officially the start of summer and all the tanks have their heaters off to allow them to get cooler during the morning to try to stay colder through the day.

Temps are fine now, but it's definitely going to get hotter!

Here's a photo of one of the newly hatched shrimp. Hopefully this helps someone get an idea for how big/small they are upon first hatch.

 

[nabokovfan87]

A bit of a frustrating update.... 😞

I randomly decided to test the KH using the new liquid kit.  It was off the charts high.  Tap for me is 40 ppm KH which is about 2 deg.  I figured I just went too quick, one too many drops and so I went ahead and double checked everything.  The test changes from blue to yellow and the vial I had was a very deep blue.  Added one more drop and the color shifted, indicating a very high test.

Two things at play here as I've had time to mull it over.  First, my strips are older, have always been dry, test normally, but simply don't seem to be accurate for KH/PH anymore.  This could entirely be my own issue and my own inability to discern the color chart.  It looked a very clear 80 ppm with PH in the 7.4-7.6 range.  The liquid test however was indicating almost 9 degrees of hardness for KH.  I think my final number on repeating tests was 8.5-9 degrees.  This equates out to almost double the ppm.  (151-160 ppm)

I went ahead and tested the tap, similar results, about double what I see using the strips.

Not sure what to do with this, but let's take a step back and point out the obvious concerns here:
A.  I have been doing water changes less often, so minerals do have a chance to build up now.
B.  I have been doing less volume for my water changes to increase stability, so this cuts down on how much I remove.
C.  I use a KH buffer, but if things are building up over time, I likely need to pull back on the buffer.

Per the liquid test strips, things are slightly higher than I'd like, potentially contributing to those deaths I saw.  Those deaths occurred before any water changes were done, but potentially the increased number from slightly too much buffer was the cause?  Hard to say. 

Per the test strip, everything was fine, slightly high, but not out of the norm of where I prefer to keep the tank.

This leads me to a few questions, but I am going to have to get used to liquid testing for those parameters going forward.   I need to research equilibrium as well in terms of modifying GH.  My goal is to get GH above the KH value and right now it's flipped reverse.  This was recommended in a green aqua video (and makes sense) to ensure plants have the right ratio of nutrients.

More research incoming, but for right now nothing is changing apart from no longer dosing in KH.  I will be testing the tap as well as the tank to monitor changes over time.

Edited May 1, 2023 by nabokovfan87
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[nabokovfan87]

On 4/20/2023 at 3:21 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

On 4/20/2023 at 3:07 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

They are?

Yeah, I had 4 total.

Checking today, it looked like both the females got through their molts and released eggs.  Again, I could just be mixing up who is left in the tank from the adults, but if memory serves and all the time staring at the tank... there should be two that freshly molted in the past couple of days and were berried.

Here is one of them... I was just checking on things today.  Some random photos while I watched the tank during maintenance.  I will have to take a full shot of the tank just so we can compare and contrast the start of the tank to where I have things now.  It's a bit of a journey as intended, but hopefully some valuable information to reveal as well.



Here's some of the first hatch and their current size. These are all from the female that came in berried.



The new shrimplets are starting to get their colors in.  About a week old or so.

I tried to siphon the sand using the airline hose and that was a big fail for me.  It worked at first, but it basically ended up with me siphoning sand and then sand getting stuck in the line.  It didn't get the debris off the sand and I just struggled with the technique.  I'll have to try it again eventually.  For now.... I ended up just using the normal giant siphon because it was easier to clean the sand off. 

I scraped some algae off the glass, which just pushes it into the water column for the baby shrimp to eat.  It's so nice to not have to worry about the filter when the tank is on air and I can take my time doing maintenance.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 5/3/2023 at 6:07 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I tried to siphon the sand using the airline hose and that was a big fail for me.  It worked at first, but it basically ended up with me siphoning sand and then sand getting stuck in the line.  It didn't get the debris off the sand and I just struggled with the technique.  I'll have to try it again eventually.  For now.... I ended up just using the normal giant siphon because it was easier to clean the sand off. 

Maybe you can use the siphon w/out the rigid part.  That's how I clean Geppetto's 5.5gal.  

Are the shrimps liking their dragonstone apartment complex?

On 5/3/2023 at 6:07 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

The new shrimplets are starting to get their colors in.  About a week old or so.

ORD!!

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/3/2023 at 5:31 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Are the shrimps liking their dragonstone apartment complex?

Oh yes.  And they love their sponge filters condos. 😂

On 5/3/2023 at 5:31 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Maybe you can use the siphon w/out the rigid part.  That's how I clean Geppetto's 5.5gal.  

The siphon I have just works too well.  I can gravel vac sand... it takes like 5 seconds to do the whole tank.  I can see the shrimp and kink it, nbd.  I think with the hose direct like that, it's smaller, but it's just so easy to suck up the sand.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 5/3/2023 at 10:19 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

And they love their sponge filters condos

I just realized there are 2 shrimplets in the pic.

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/5/2023 at 10:11 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

This is the Tank with a planted 3.0 light with a bit better quality LED spectrum and the blackwater visual to it. Not much, not the type of thing where you can't see the clarity of the water, but there's some tannins for sure.

A bit of a before And after. Modified the hardscape a little bit, removed the stump style piece on the right and relocated those plants. That stump was Luigi's cave, but she also has one in the mopani that she loves as well.

Here is the tank this morning.

The tank does look a bit more open, by design in some aspects. There are three pretty big rocks and there is a good amount of moss added now. The plants are ever so slowly growing in and we have a ton of air on this tank. My smallest air pump didn't work so the pump that was on this tank is now on the small tank.

(Was 20-30G airpump is now a 150G "pond" airpump)

This tank had lava rock in it initially. While I do think that is wonderful for a shrimp tank, I do like the use of Ohko stone a lot more given how neos use cover and their environment. The way these stones are it's 2 chunks that likely could fit stacked on one another but I do like the way these two work. In person, I'm sure it would look a lot more appealing.

My goal is that the back glass has a sußwassertang or moss wall (working on getting some). It will happen eventually, maybe not as quickly as I would like.

That being said, the shrimplets spend most of their time on the heater, sponge, and on the back glass. They don't move to other areas until they start to get their color. Once they are a few mm in size they do use the stones and start to travel around a bit more.

Especially recently, I have noticed that the shrimp are very nocturnal. Yes there are shrimp out during the day, but feeding in the late hours I cannot argue might be a good way to ensure that the more timid shrimp can get food.

Using the feeding dish is definitely a new experience but I do like having them. I like having multiple more than just one because I can give the shrimp food in different locations. I would like to get another one eventually.

The botanicals are useful, but I do see the shrimp interacting with the mopani much more than they ever do with the alder cones. I would encourage use of mopani or Malaysian/Pacific driftwood in a shrimp tank. Those pieces of wood have large flat surfaces and the shrimp do enjoy eating off of larger plants or surfaces where they can support themselves. It's not as easy for them to clean and prune the fine surfaces once they get to an adolescent size.

Despite any struggles it has been very interesting and fun to learn about the difference in behavior from the amano shrimp to these Neocaridina shrimp. Having new shrimp every few weeks, being able to recover from losing some is an advantage. These are definitely more sensitive than the amanos and it's not really close at all. In all, keeping this species has and will make me a better caretaker for my tanks. There are parameters and other factors I am focusing on a bit more, learning more, and that is encouraging.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 5/4/2023 at 1:57 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

In all, keeping this species has and will make me a better caretaker for my tanks. There are parameters and other factors I am focusing on a bit more, learning more, and that is encouraging.

Same

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/4/2023 at 3:28 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I just realized there are 2 shrimplets in the pic.

From today.  Feeding some pollen... this is where they were prior to feeding.

 

Edit:  The right sponge has slightly more air going through it compared to the other.  That's where all the babies are hanging out.

Edited May 5, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[nabokovfan87]

I couldn't help but pause when I checked on the tank this morning for the 5th time.

Eggs are fine, shrimp are doing their thing. I don't see any dead females. I went about my morning and checked on the other tanks, got the pups settled. A few hours later, here we are....

All I can express is how nice it is when you put yourself into a project and you admire it as such.

The little ones....

Their newly molted mom:

One of their aunts that is in the process of doing a lot of work to add to the family.

One of the best looking shrimp in the tank.

Some siblings of the first generation, pattern is still forming.

One of the other adults using the Ohko caves.

I am glad they are having a good day today. One day at a time, one issue at a time and having patience to try to acclimate to new care requirements.

I'll have to run some more tests tomorrow, but for now, it's a fun day for them.

[nabokovfan87]

This is a style of setup that I really can get behind.  Massive tank, small bioload.... it just works and does it's thing.  If you are going to "get into" shrimp than this is a perfect, level-headed, easy to understand view from someone with experience with the species.

ENJOY!

Here is more details on the specific setup.

And the ever fun releasing a ton of something into a tank:

 

[nabokovfan87]

Fed the tank today and went ahead and did my weekly cleaning. Water change and siphon today because it's been a few weeks. The shrimp are doing better now with the GH up. Lots of saddled adolescent shrimp ready to go and I should be able to  get a bit more aggressive with feeding and stuff eventually to compensate for the boom.

I had to wrangle 3 shrimp from the filter. A few were in the tank and I got them out of the sponge there, but I ended up with 3 that were a bit more tricky to get. Not difficult at all and the constant cleaning is making it so that pretty much nothing comes off the sand and the filter. I have to keep an eye on algae at this point, but everything is doing ok.

 

 

 

Test Results:
GH: 7 Deg (125 ppm)
KH: 6 Deg (107 ppm)

Edited May 19, 2023 by nabokovfan87
removed blurry photos and added test results

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Do the little shrimplets understand how to enter the feeding dish?