Blackwater Bloody Mary Neo Setup

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 3/8/2023 at 12:18 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Update: 😞

It sounds like they are trying to be helpful. Why are you disappointed? This way they have the control over the packaging.

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/8/2023 at 10:48 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

It sounds like they are trying to be helpful. Why are you disappointed? This way they have the control over the packaging.

Nah... Nothing like that.

Everything seems good.

It's weird to me to have something as "import+tank bred" and then have two of their other lines as tank bread (in house vs. local hobbyist)

It's just confusing.

I messaged again, asked them to send the import strain if available.  I already have some of the in house strain and just want to mix genetics.

This was the last email, again, I think everything is fine and they are doing the right things.

Quote

 

Oh no worries, I can still do that for you.

We are still trying to tweak how we ship our tank bred imports and I hope that this next shipment goes more smoothly for you.

 

So it seems I'll get the right strain, have a healthy group of each strain and go from there.

I think all I need is a feeding dish now.

Very flat setup right now but top down there's a lot going on.

 

[knee]

On 3/7/2023 at 12:33 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

.....and they arrived DoA.  Bag got a leak or something and they got caught in the seams at the top of the bag and crushed.  😞

This sucks. I feel really bad for the shrimp or any DOA.

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/8/2023 at 12:33 PM, knee said:

This sucks. I feel really bad for the shrimp or any DOA.

WELL... Hopefully you have some alive and healthy awesome pandas arrive today 🙂

[Lennie]

I know you are not a huge snail fan, but I really do believe snail poops and the stuff they leave behind are great for shrimp.

You may consider at least adding one to their tank 🙂

[knee]

On 3/8/2023 at 12:51 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

WELL... Hopefully you have some alive and healthy awesome pandas arrive today 🙂

I'm refreshing the UPS page every 15 minutes and also left our front door open 😂

I don't want to experience that issue I had with USPS regarding the pandas I ordered before 

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/8/2023 at 12:56 PM, Lennie said:

I know you are not a huge snail fan, but I really do believe snail poops and the stuff they leave behind are great for shrimp.

There's a pleco in there 🙂

These rocks were in the snail tank, so there might be some that magically pop up, but hoping not.  I am fine with nerites, just need to get one that doesn't do the spots on a log.  I had one before, but it was moved to one of my step-siblings tanks and lived its life out there.

Edited March 8, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[Lennie]

As they have successfully layed many eggs on my 29g, I put them all there and seperate the males to my new setup. It can be hard to see at stores but a lil bit easier at home. This worked for me so far:

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/8/2023 at 1:27 PM, Lennie said:

As they have successfully layed many eggs on my 29g, I put them all there and seperate the males to my new setup. It can be hard to see at stores but a lil bit easier at home. This worked for me so far:

Yeah.... I spent a good amount of time trying to sort out which was which.  I couldn't tell.  😞  Too small or difficult for me to see.   I also heard that males can change gender if need be.  No idea.  I'm sure one day I'll have them, but for now.... all the clown plecos you could want are in there. 

I may also add in that single black corydoras fry to live in there permanently if he keeps getting picked on.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 3/8/2023 at 3:56 PM, Lennie said:

I know you are not a huge snail fan, but I really do believe snail poops and the stuff they leave behind are great for shrimp.

You may consider at least adding one to their tank 🙂

Hahaha @Lennie good luck! I’ve been trying to convince @nabokovfan87 to get a snail for months!  He wants some guarantee that the nerite won’t lay eggs! 🙄 50/50 chance; that’s pretty good odds. I have 3 nerites and none of them have ever laid eggs.

 

(Ok well 50%)

Edited March 8, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Lennie]

On 3/9/2023 at 12:45 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Hahaha @Lennie good luck! I’ve been trying to convince @nabokovfan87 to get a snail for months!  He wants some guarantee that the nerite won’t lay eggs! 🙄 50/50 chance; that’s pretty good odds. I have 3 nerites and none of them have ever laid eggs.

lucky! tbh I think other snails like mysterys and rabbits must be more beneficial in that regard. I'm not sure how good is nerites for shrimp and fish fry.

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/8/2023 at 1:45 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

He wants some guarantee that the nerite won’t lay eggs! 🙄 50/50 chance; that’s pretty good odds. I have 3 nerites and none of them have ever laid eggs.

nope.... I want a guarantee about where I can put them that isn't my tank when they do lay eggs!

I also wouldn't mind breeding nerites, but just not setup for it.  Snails are fine. Just not 1 million of them in a 10G. 

[nabokovfan87]

How to move a Tank

Step 1 - Drain some tank water into buckets or a tote.

Step 2 -  Put the filtration media into that bucket, add an airstone, and then add the fish.  (Easier to net everything if the tank is 80% drained)

Step 3 - Cover the bucket and set aside so the fish don't jump and can de-stress.

Step 4 - Move the plants and hardscape if need be into the tote of tank water. Keep the plants wet.  Buckets work well.

Step 5 - Dig out a section of substrate and make sure that water can flow to the siphon as low as possible.



Step 5B - Make little channels in the substrate to drain any pools towards this open section of the substrate to maximize how much water you can drain.

Step 6 - Disconnect all equipment and remove it from the tank so it cannot be damaged when moving the stand and/or tank into place.
Step 7 - Move the tank to the new location.
Step 8 - Make sure it's level
Step 9 - Add some water (25% is fine)
Step 10 - Check it's level again
Step 11 - Add back in hardscape and water that was reserved
Step 12 - Add your fish / shrimp back
Step 12 - Top off the tank
Step 13 - Make sure the equipment is on and working.

Time to update things on the "Name" of the tank for the light app.  End of an Era.


I counted 6-7 shrimp.  There's probably more somewhere and hopefully they're doing well with all the stress of moving the tank and my method of care for them.  My hope is the care is very low stress for them!

Phase 2 done, tank moved..... Now I can slide the 75G into place and decide how that's going to fit.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 3/13/2023 at 12:48 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

How to move a Tank

Step 1 - Drain some tank water into buckets or a tote.

Step 2 -  Put the filtration media into that bucket, add an airstone, and then add the fish.  (Easier to net everything if the tank is 80% drained)

Step 3 - Cover the bucket and set aside so the fish don't jump and can de-stress.

Step 4 - Move the plants and hardscape if need be into the tote of tank water. Keep the plants wet.  Buckets work well.

Step 5 - Dig out a section of substrate and make sure that water can flow to the siphon as low as possible.



Step 5B - Make little channels in the substrate to drain any pools towards this open section of the substrate to maximize how much water you can drain.

Step 6 - Disconnect all equipment and remove it from the tank so it cannot be damaged when moving the stand and/or tank into place.
Step 7 - Move the tank to the new location.
Step 8 - Make sure it's level
Step 9 - Add some water (25% is fine)
Step 10 - Check it's level again
Step 11 - Add back in hardscape and water that was reserved
Step 12 - Add your fish / shrimp back
Step 12 - Top off the tank
Step 13 - Make sure the equipment is on and working.

Time to update things on the "Name" of the tank for the light app.  End of an Era.


I counted 6-7 shrimp.  There's probably more somewhere and hopefully they're doing well with all the stress of moving the tank and my method of care for them.  My hope is the care is very low stress for them!

Phase 2 done, tank moved..... Now I can slide the 75G into place and decide how that's going to fit.

You need to submit this for nerm week.

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/13/2023 at 7:40 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

You need to submit this for nerm week.

Gotta do it 2 more times. 😉

I give you King shrimp.

 

^^ basically the most active and out in the open one in the tank. 🙂

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/8/2023 at 10:48 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

It sounds like they are trying to be helpful. Why are you disappointed? This way they have the control over the packaging.

Emailed them twice this week. Still wondering what on earth is going on and if/when something will ship out as replacement.

Anyways.... Morning shrimp photos.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

They are so bright red! 😍

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/16/2023 at 10:08 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

They are so bright red! 😍

Beautiful shrimp. I am so happy. I know @Minanorahhas some amazing ones as well, but I had to get these!

Finally heard back from the shipper. The replacements should be arriving today. Returning home to the house now to go handle that.

[nabokovfan87]

Alright.... Let's reboot this thread and get things going in the correct direction!

*Rewind a few issues*

All of the shrimp are now in the tank and the colony is OFFICIALLY alive and kicking now.  One of the females I got today does have eggs / berried, but the key factor here is that I have the raw shrimp in there and now we are down to my own ability to keep these things going.

Briefly, I will mention I did find a worm in the tank that was pretty mature in its lifecycle.  this isn't something I want to see, but it's not uncommon given that I had them in another tank.  I will likely attempt a method to get rid of them, but right now the key is going to be adding a feeding dish and controlling how much food goes into the tank.

One day, some swordtail fry will likely make it in there to go ahead and hunt some worms for me.

On 1/9/2023 at 11:04 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

First question, Would you choose quantity or quality?

Quality definitely matters.  Something I've seen in other tanks, online videos, and just from shrimp sellers in general is that they either don't cull enough or they don't have enough genetic variation resulting in weak lines.  Meaning, the shrimp you might have might not be 3-4 generations deep in that color pattern. 

One of the most interesting things I learned when researching this project, care, and other topics was that any color Neo shrimp is a version of a cherry shrimp.  Call me silly, but I seriously thought that cherry shrimp was it's own species, Neocaridina Davidi was it's own species, Caridina was it's own group, and then Saluwesi was another grouping.  We do have a few different species in the Neocaridina family as well now, but you can understand thee question when we go from a genetics chart of "grades of cherry shrimp" into a world where you have painted fire reds, sakura red, black rose, and all of these other variations on the theme.   Once I understood that aspect, it became a lot more clear how critical it is to start with the genetic variation and the coloration that I needed for a long term, successful colony.

On 1/9/2023 at 11:04 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Lastly, would you follow the common guidance from others around you, or would you trust your own skill and technique moreso?

This is where I am very, very curious to see exactly what happens with shrimplets in the tank and their development.  I do need to move this tank one more time, but right now things are on hold due to electrical risk.  (There's always something)

I am not dripping water back into the tank.  I simply cannot do this and won't have the setup to achieve this any time soon.  the tank is absolutely setup to receive water in this fashion, but unless I can hook a 5G bucket to the ceiling it just isn't possible.  I do not have any way to match temp easily apart from my own hand and skill doing so.  I don't have RO water and I am at the mercy of whatever the water company does to the water.  I will have Alkalinity buffer, neutral regulator, equilibrium on hand if I need to dose anything.  The goal is to have a stable environment and I perform weekly 25-50% water changes.  This week I've done two 25% water changes. 

My focus for care is on oxygenated, cool, clean water.  In my experience with the Amanos I think this is a recipe for success and I hope that it results in a pretty strong colony with low stress.  I plan to have a ton of wood in the tank at all times, lots of hardscape, and I would like to add a lot more botanicals into the tank.  Wood works very well for this setup given that I am changing water pretty often, and that I have been running this tank (and this wood) for a very long time.  I am looking for one more piece to add, but I am not rushed at all to do so.  I do think that wood is one of the most important surfaces for this species.  

My other goal is to have low demand plants and to let those plants do their thing.  I don't plan to have some form of an aquascape, but I do plan to attach them to look aesthetically pleasing.  My hope is that the plants will attach to the hardscape, grow, and propagate.  I also plan to add some floating plants to this tank, a first for me.  the goal is to get varieties of anubias, el nino fern, and some hygrophilia plants in this tank. 

I plan to feed every other day.  One thing I am learning is that I need to get used to how small these shrimp are and what they can physically eat each time I do feed them.  One pellet for 5 shrimp is probably fine, but I do need to crush it up as well in some situations.

These ones are a lot smaller than amano shrimp and we will have some more on that later once I know these shrimp are fully grown.  I have ~3 batches of shrimp (2 different genetic strains) and I do have a little bit of variation in size.  The female that was berried is ~1 inch big and I would say the majority of the shrimp are .75-1" long right now. 

I also think there is a slightly higher amount of females in the tank compared to males.  Keeping both genders alive is a critical task for me.  I have already watched the male (or one of) mate with two of the females and I fully expect to have a lot of shrimplets pretty soon.  Both the females were saddled and will likely have eggs soon.

Overall everything seems to be doing good so far.  Once the fish were removed and enough shrimp were added to the tank, it's definitely changed the dynamic and their behavior.  I woke up today to 5-6 shrimp on the front piece of wood without any fear, 3 of which were saddled females grazing.  I need to see them molt and to see them go through their stages that they do.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 3/16/2023 at 8:47 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

but unless I can hook a 5G bucket to the ceiling it just isn't possible

A ladder (might I remind you this was your own idea).

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 3/16/2023 at 8:47 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

what they can physically eat each time I do feed them

My little guys seem to hang near the bigger ones, so when the dust or whatnot comes off the pellet, the little guys eat that while the big guys keep control of the pellet.

Normally I’d suggest bacter ae. All my shrimp love it and there’s a lot of activity when I drop it in. But given your worm situation, I wouldn’t advise it. Always keep catappa leaf in there.  Various sized shrimp enjoy it. Babies eat the biofilm, and bigger shrimps eat the leaf itself.

And you’ll want to have some moss; I don’t think you mentioned moss.

On 3/16/2023 at 8:47 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

One pellet for 5 shrimp is probably fine, but I do need to crush it up as well in some situations.

I don’t think you need to crush it. The little crumbs will come off when one shrimp starts picking at it, and nearby smaller shrimps will eat that. They kinda tag along with their older sisters and brothers.

Also mine adore soilent green Repashy. There’s never any leftovers.

Plus I sometimes swirl Repashy powder in for the kids. But.. worms probably would like that too.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/16/2023 at 6:26 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

A ladder (might I remind you this was your own idea).

Or a wall mounted shelf 🙂

Yeah, it just isn't feasible.  The ceiling of my room (of the entire first story) isn't robust enough for basically anything.  The people that were here before us did a lot of poor quality work.  2 walls in my room aren't walls and I'm fairly certain most of what should be external walls with normal stud spacing and insulation isn't.  As a result of all of that we are at the mercy of the elements a bit more than I'd like and that's just talking about temperature.  The closet in my room which is adjacent to another room and a hall closet has 0.5 walls (including ceiling) and the issue is really that they tried to be cheap and sneaky.  It's a real headache, but I am making due with what I can as best I can. 

In the time of setting up the tank and getting it resolved.... 3 times I've moved the tank and had issues with the floor level (or traffic around said tank in two locations), 1 ceiling water leak, 2 floods, 2 stopped sinks, 1 stopped shower, and now electrical issues.

On 3/16/2023 at 6:45 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I don’t think you need to crush it. The little crumbs will come off when one shrimp starts picking at it, and nearby smaller shrimps will eat that. They kinda tag along with their older sisters and brothers.

Also mine adore soilent green Repashy. There’s never any leftovers.

Plus I sometimes swirl Repashy powder in for the kids. But.. worms probably would like that too.

Yeah, I saw the worms the afternoon I did this for the first time. 😞

Very small amount, but it is something I do consider as a feeding option.

Good to know about the pellets. I am used to the amano world of running off with the food like it's a cookie and never too big for them.

On 3/16/2023 at 6:45 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

And you’ll want to have some moss; I don’t think you mentioned moss.

It's in there, forgot to mention it!  Working on moss bushes now as a new method.  Trying it out in the bigger tank to propagate out moss and have an easy way to trim.  When I can find some, suss as well will be mandatory.

Edited March 17, 2023 by nabokovfan87
typo

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 3/16/2023 at 9:52 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

3 times I've moved the tank and had issues with the floor level (or traffic around said tank in two locations), 1 ceiling water leak, 2 floods, 2 stopped sinks, 1 stopped shower, and now electrical issues

!!! 😢

On 3/16/2023 at 9:52 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Good to know about the pellets. I am used to the amano world of running off with the food like it's a cookie and never too big for them

The neo will sit with it and hold it and turn it while picking at it.

[nabokovfan87]

On 3/16/2023 at 10:06 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

What a beautiful shrimp!

Alright, this is one of the newer females.  Warning, video was recorded while being attacked by a puppy so bear that in mind for the shakiness.

This one I think is one (of maybe two) that are berried.  It's crazy considering it went through shipping and didn't drop the eggs.  What is also fun to see is the difference in the shell.  It's a bit darker and gives me an idea of what to look for when it comes to timing out their molting.

Note: still trying to get the color/exposure settings dialed in on this tank, hopefully viewable.

 

[Miska]

I am so in love with these photos. Absolutely beautiful.