Intermediate Plant Help: Trimming Advice

[nabokovfan87]

Hello everyone!

I have a pair of questions and I want to ask those with much nicer tanks that I one day hope to have!  I think it's an interesting question and would be fun to hear some perspective.

I would genuinely love to hear from @Seattle_Aquarist @Mmiller2001 and @gjcarew on this first question if at all possible.

First, simply put, please talk to us about this tank in this photo / video.  How do you view it?  I mean to say.... a lot of us look at a tank like this and go "wow, that's amazingly well done and beautiful."  What sort of things goes on when you look at it?  Do you start to perform some maintenance in your head?  I won't say too much as to ask for an honest reaction, but I think it's something that might actually be helpful for some of trying to get from a box with plants to an "aquascape style" tank.



Here is the link to the video itself, he does zoom in and discuss the tank further. Fuzzy photo intended!

Quote

 

Alright, serious question now though. 

I have some S. Repens and one of the talking points in this video was the stargrass in the foreground.  He mentions that it's long and he's going to trim it.  My question is specifically why?

I want to get a longer portion of S. Repens in one corner for Oto eggs and fry, then have a carpet in a section of my tank.  Bush style, but just something where it's a bit easier for some species in the tank to interact with the plant itself.  I have a certain light setup and let it grow, it'll get some height.  What am I missing?  Is there an issue with that mindset of having a plant like S. Repens (or stargrass) and wanting to have it a bit longer than most people normally would?  Is there an advantage to plant health by having it longer?

I appreciate it.  Thank you for the time!

Edited January 5, 2023 by nabokovfan87
had one extra word hanging around

[gjcarew]

I think that tank looks great. Lots of healthy plants in there. If it was mine I would do some trimming, but I like to keep my plants more manicured. Some prefer more of a jungly look and that is fine.

In general, taller plants in the foreground (especially bushy plants) make a tank seem shorter and block the view of the background plants. 

If you don't have enough light, your plants are going to get leggier and it will be tough to keep them compact. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that. I like to juxtapose a medium-height foreground plant with a really low one like Monte Carlo so you get a full impression of the depth of the tank.

 

[Mmiller2001]

On 1/5/2023 at 2:19 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

My question is specifically why?

It's a fast grower and trimming it keep it under control and bushier. But honestly, Stargrass in the foreground doesn't make sense.

 

On 1/5/2023 at 2:19 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Is there an advantage to plant health by having it longer?

No, and in fact; when you get things really right, you will notice plants staying more compact and growing slower.

 

On 1/5/2023 at 2:19 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

First, simply put, please talk to us about this tank in this photo / video.  How do you view it?

 

On 1/5/2023 at 2:19 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

What sort of things goes on when you look at it?

The first thing which stands out to me is the terrible yellow cast those Fluval lights produce, and how much you and I would spend for 3.0's when the same amount of money would have bought you true RGB lighting. Secondly, this is an amazingly healthy tank that could use some trimming and shaping. Sorry, the love of Dutch style will never leave me. In my opinion, the only thing holding this tank back is cosmetic, but personal preference differs right?

Notes:

If he's not injecting CO2, this is a 10/10 tank.

I also zoom in on his mention of water changes, the holy grail of no water changes will never get you to this tank.

Lucky bastard has amazing tap water. Low TDS is win! 

Top 20% of tanks honestly.

How in the hell is he keeping star grass so low, that stuff grows a foot a day!

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/5/2023 at 3:21 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

How in the hell is he keeping star grass so low, that stuff grows a foot a day!

There was a "part 2" so to speak that comes up as him doing maintenance on the tank. He's yanking out heaps of plants for the trim and he discussed reasons for trimming. Not in depth, but mentioned why.  I think it was about a year prior, I'd have to check the date, but it was before allmot his work got hectic and algae issues flared up. He is definitely injecting CO2 from what I know, might not be, but that's how he usually runs things. Only fert is substrate, root tabs, and easy green.

In the other video he mentioned wanted to remove everything and completely replace all of the substrate.

One of the biggest things I like about the tank is that it's the right depth and a lot of length. It doesn't feel tight and it works so well to give the plants room (i.e. dutch style) and to go ahead and have a picturesque 21:9 ratio.

On 1/5/2023 at 3:21 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

No, and in fact; when you get things really right, you will notice plants staying more compact and growing slower.

Mine started to finally grow. Propagating it is probably the right move. Trim it, more tabs, put more stems outward. I'll grab some photos to try to demonstrate. It's about 3-5 inches tall, I'd like it to be a focal in the front with the hygro pinnatifida or stems behind, downward slope as it goes to the center of the tank.

If I can get it 6-8" tall, I'll be fine. Just a little bit of height to it.

[Mmiller2001]

On 1/5/2023 at 5:48 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

more tabs

Here's where I diverge. I don't believe in root tabs. 

Just let the s. Repens grow. As soon as you see lower leaves begin to suffer from less light, top and plant those tops. Don't pull out the bottoms.

[JoeQ]

On 1/5/2023 at 9:05 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Here's where I diverge. I don't believe in root tabs. 

Just let the s. Repens grow. As soon as you see lower leaves begin to suffer from less light, top and plant those tops. Don't pull out the bottoms.

This is what I always thought too but lately I've been realizing lower leaf loss seams to correlate with not enough water column fertilization as well. As for root tabs, I believe they are more beneficial to crypts and other slow growing foreground plants than they are to quick growing stems.

Edited January 6, 2023 by JoeQ

[JoeQ]

And as for the first post in the thread, this guy is (in essence & IMO) an influencer, a potential salesman,  but being portrayed (again IMO) as a home hobbyist. I don't think a tank like that is feasible to the average home hobbyist, between the time spent and cost to upkeep. Also one questions how much prep time was put in to make the tank 'ready for its closeup'.

Again,  these are only my humble opinions, they are not an attack or accusation. Just my 2 cents, either way,  he does have some beautiful scapes 😍

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by JoeQ

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/6/2023 at 6:11 AM, JoeQ said:

And as for the first post in the thread, this guy is (in essence & IMO) an influencer, a potential salesman,  but being portrayed (again IMO) as a home hobbyist. I don't think a tank like that is feasible to the average home hobbyist, between the time spent and cost to upkeep. Also one questions how much prep time was put in to make the tank 'ready for its closeup'.

Again,  these are only my humble opinions, they are not an attack or accusation. Just my 2 cents, either way,  he does have some beautiful scapes

He's had the tank a long time before any advertising.  He worked really, really hard for a long time to get it that way.  I get what you're coming from, but Joel does deserve credit for all his knowledge, passion, and efforts. 

[JoeQ]

On 1/6/2023 at 3:58 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

He's had the tank a long time before any advertising.  He worked really, really hard for a long time to get it that way.  I get what you're coming from, but Joel does deserve credit for all his knowledge, passion, and efforts. 

There is no doubt that his knowledge and passion is incredible. I also vaguely remember him doing a podcast/live stream with cory, or maybe even working for the coop.  All I was doing was pointing out his tank might be partially sponsored (im not a regular viewer of his) and I don't see it as something an average hobbyist can achieve;  between the amount of work involved, financial needs , and not to mention the amount of knowledge needed to keep it running and make it seem effortless!

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/6/2023 at 1:20 PM, JoeQ said:

between the amount of work involved, financial needs , and not to mention the amount of knowledge needed to keep it running and make it seem effortless!

100%

I haven't seen a lot of his videos, not followed or anything like that. I just know how he runs things from what I have heard and know enough about him to appreciate all the things you highlighted.

I think for a lot of us that watch Cory, especially the old vlogs, Joel was the one who did the sump and was knowledgeable with acrylic. Seeing his tanks, for a lot of people, that the first time they even get to see a tank of that magnitude. And given.... The video above he's showing how bad the tank is, talking about why, showing the severe algae issues and his methods.

I just appreciate that view from across the room and seeing a tank like that. I really do.

[JoeQ]

On 1/6/2023 at 4:55 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

100%

I haven't seen a lot of his videos, not followed or anything like that. I just know how he runs things from what I have heard and know enough about him to appreciate all the things you highlighted.

I think for a lot of us that watch Cory, especially the old vlogs, Joel was the one who did the sump and was knowledgeable with acrylic. Seeing his tanks, for a lot of people, that the first time they even get to see a tank of that magnitude. And given.... The video above he's showing how bad the tank is, talking about why, showing the severe algae issues and his methods.

I just appreciate that view from across the room and seeing a tank like that. I really do.

You asked for honest first thoughts which was a delicate line to tiptoe around. Specially considering my first thoughts would have probably been taken the wrong way, and most likely would have gotten me banned! 🤣

[Mmiller2001]

On 1/6/2023 at 5:44 PM, JoeQ said:

You asked for honest first thoughts which was a delicate line to tiptoe around. Specially considering my first thoughts would have probably been taken the wrong way, and most likely would have gotten me banned! 🤣

I know this felling well. I held back. I've seen a few of his videos, I prefer getting my information elsewhere. I did build my reactor from his video. Worked well 

[JoeQ]

On 1/6/2023 at 7:51 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

I know this felling well. I held back. I've seen a few of his videos, I prefer getting my information elsewhere. I did build my reactor from his video. Worked well 

A lot of times I can't control myself,  thank god for the gift of being diplomatic or I'd be banned from a lot of things!

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/6/2023 at 4:44 PM, JoeQ said:

ou asked for honest first thoughts which was a delicate line to tiptoe around. Specially considering my first thoughts would have probably been taken the wrong way, and most likely would have gotten me banned! 🤣

Perspective is important, I get it!

I have an amazon gift card and am hoping to fix / help my tank.  Decisions decisions.  Aquascaping pinsettes are on my mind as well as those tumbled lava rocks.  I ordered a case (yeah 12 pack!) of super glue gel so I can have some to redo all the moss in my tank.

Tough to decide, given the conversation on expanding the S. Repens out, root tabs, etc.

@Mmiller2001 I understand the stance on root tabs.  Question, and forgive me for just not knowing this off the top of my head, when you're dosing your tank day to day are you doing EI type of dosing? Dosing pumps? Are you using a good substrate as your main method / nutrient base as opposed to having tabs in there? 

I do have issues with my substrate, love it, but have some issues.... so I am not opposed to replacing it with some capped soil.

[Mmiller2001]

On 1/6/2023 at 11:15 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Perspective is important, I get it!

I have an amazon gift card and am hoping to fix / help my tank.  Decisions decisions.  Aquascaping pinsettes are on my mind as well as those tumbled lava rocks.  I ordered a case (yeah 12 pack!) of super glue gel so I can have some to redo all the moss in my tank.

Tough to decide, given the conversation on expanding the S. Repens out, root tabs, etc.

@Mmiller2001 I understand the stance on root tabs.  Question, and forgive me for just not knowing this off the top of my head, when you're dosing your tank day to day are you doing EI type of dosing? Dosing pumps? Are you using a good substrate as your main method / nutrient base as opposed to having tabs in there? 

I do have issues with my substrate, love it, but have some issues.... so I am not opposed to replacing it with some capped soil.

I either dose daily or front load. I'm currently front loading and dosing micros 3 times a week by hand. But I dose the incoming water all at once. This is on the 75. 

I've used aqua soil and pool filter sand. I do prefer pool filter sand. I'm using a modified EI targets which work in my tanks. I do try to limit N as I clean the glass less when I tone down nitrates. However, when plants are humming, that is not a problem even at 30ppm N.

I'm currently dosing 18ppm N, 6ppm P and 37ppm or so K. Micros, I dose .4ppm Fe as proxy.

I will experiment full EI once my new tank arrives and gets established. I plan on keeping epiphytes and slow growers to see how full EI affects the tank. 

If you were to think about EI dosing without front loading, I would be dosing 8ppm N, 3ppm P and 18ppm K weekly.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Mmiller2001

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/6/2023 at 10:51 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

If you were to think about EI dosing without front loading, I would be dosing 8ppm N, 3ppm P and 18ppm K weekly.

Appreciate it.  I am just dosing Easy Green and Iron right now. 

[Mmiller2001]

On 1/7/2023 at 12:02 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Appreciate it.  I am just dosing Easy Green and Iron right now. 

I'd recommend breaking down the easy green numbers and track ppm totals. It really helps correlating plant growth with numbers.