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Talk to me about filter flow rate


A3M0N
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I'm thinking about changing the filtration in my 10 gallon, right now I'm running a DIY sponge filter. I don't want to over power my little fish, but also want to keep the tank cleaner and help keep algae at bay. I'm not really interested in a hang on the back and 10 gallons is way too small for a canister, so I was thinking of a powerhead and use my already seeded sponges, or a little internal filter like a Sicce Micron. If I got a powerhead, I'm looking at something like this Aquaneat, it's rated at 130gph. While the Sicce Micron is 65gph. I've read that gph around 4-6 times the size of the tank in gallons is a good place to start. If that's right then the Sicce should be the way to go, but would 130gph thrash my tank? I have six neon tetras, six harlequin rasboras, and a mystery snail.

Any thoughts? Thanks! 

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Personally I’d go for the Sicce, it’ll get the job done with good directional flow, and a nice compact look. I have a powerhead with two coarse sponges attached and it works well but I’m thinking of changing to a Sicce type for a more attractive look and easier maintenance. 
 

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I run a Sicce syncra nano pumphead (I also have an aquatop one, older model) that has a spraybar output.  Since you're into the DIY stuff I would recommend getting one that is slightly bigger than you thing, modding it with a spraybar.  You're not going to get any better circulation than that.  If you want to run it short end, you're going to be modding that manually.  If you want to run it long end, I used the spraybar kit from the Fluval X07 series of canisters ($15-25 kit) and then cut that down to what I needed. 

In terms of fitment, it's going to never fit just right, but hopefully you can put things together to get the barb or tubing you need for things to transition to the right size.

Second to that.... get your pump, and then run a Marina HOB breeder box. Mod it how you want, off you go.

Entirely up to you as far as how you want to run things or what would work.  I run my tanks at 8-10x the GPH.

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On 12/27/2022 at 8:29 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I run a Sicce syncra nano pumphead

Do you run it setup like an inline pump, with a filter sponge on the intake then out to the spray bar? I haven't downloaded the manual, it looks like you can't use the flow control when it's setup like an inline pump. I briefly thought about making like a small almost corner internal sump (I think that's what you would call it, like an internal filter sectioned off at the end of the tank) with a pump like this, but that would require more tear down than I'm comfortable doing. 

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On 12/27/2022 at 10:11 PM, Biotope Biologist said:

Hey what’s wrong with canisters!?!

Nothing really! Actually, I'd love to have one for space and aesthetics, but they're generally too expensive for my budget and seems like too much filter for my aquarium. I'm also wary about stories of those and HOB flooding and possibly not restarting after power outages. We don't get many outages, but still, ya know? 

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I think the shiruba (“shiruba” not shirabusa, I’m crossing it with the famous motorcycle “hayabusa” for some reason) I bought was around the $75-90 mark. 
 

We had one power outtage while it was installed and no leaks, but it did get an air bubble trapped in the intake and I did have to do the ole’ suck on the end of the hose to siphon it trick. I really like overkill on my filters because I’m rather lazy with maintenance. 

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On 12/27/2022 at 8:08 PM, A3M0N said:

Do you run it setup like an inline pump, with a filter sponge on the intake then out to the spray bar? I haven't downloaded the manual, it looks like you can't use the flow control when it's setup like an inline pump. I briefly thought about making like a small almost corner internal sump (I think that's what you would call it, like an internal filter sectioned off at the end of the tank) with a pump like this, but that would require more tear down than I'm comfortable doing. 

 Correct.  And yes, no flow control when you have an intake filter.

I do like that it can be used internally or externally of a tank and the flow control does work really nicely.

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On 12/28/2022 at 12:41 PM, A3M0N said:

@nabokovfan87, I found in your journal where you setup the pump. Are you using the vinyl tubing as an adapter between the spray bar/pump outlet, and filter/pump inlet? 

Yeah.  I have the inlet from the pump ---> 3/8" ID with 1/2" OD tubing ---> Fluval rubber fitting and then it's all smashed together with a zip tie.  It "works" but if I had some barb fittings it would be a lot better.  Same thing with the intake.  Zip tie around the pump pipe to hold the intake filter in place from fish bumps.

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Alrighty, I got the pump installed! It's kind of temp installed until I really get it figured out. I'm probably going to have to turn it off when I feed the fish because the flow just pushes the food all to the end of the tank and down to the bottom. 

I tried it first with just the sponge and no spray bar, it was way too much for the fish. Then I tried with the spray bar, much better. 

WITHOUT the spray bar: 

 

WITH the spray bar: 

 

Edited by A3M0N
Really got the videos embedded this time!
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On 1/1/2023 at 9:54 PM, A3M0N said:

I tried it first with just the sponge and no spray bar, it was way too much for the fish. Then I tried with the spray bar, much better. 

WITHOUT the spray bar: 

https://youtu.be/P1mc7M5tJ5U

 

WITH the spray bar: 

https://youtu.be/BbB1sRF6vo0

It always amazes me how pumps intended to be attached to the side of your tank don't really have any real output.  You're lucky to get a duckbill but even then, that just takes a tube and makes it widened.  Lock line, dual duckbills, mini spraybars.... you're talking literally 15-45 minutes of actual work to design those parts and it's literally 30-60 minutes for the drawings.   Not much, but what a difference it makes!

What did you end up using for your endcap?

Nicely done 🙂

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On 1/2/2023 at 2:46 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

It always amazes me how pumps intended to be attached to the side of your tank don't really have any real output.  You're lucky to get a duckbill but even then, that just takes a tube and makes it widened.  Lock line, dual duckbills, mini spraybars.... you're talking literally 15-45 minutes of actual work to design those parts and it's literally 30-60 minutes for the drawings.   Not much, but what a difference it makes!

What did you end up using for your endcap?

Nicely done 🙂

Right now I'm using normal 1/2in PVC endcaps, but I plan to get some test caps so they're lower profile. The pipes are 1/2in PVC, about 30 wraps of teflon tape works pretty good to adapt the 12mm input/output. I do plan to size up the 1/2in input tube to 3/4in, the sponges fit better on the bigger pipe, and if I put a test cap on that end the sponges can slide off with no problem for cleaning. 

All that said, I think the flow is still too strong even with the spray bar. The fish are constantly having to swim against the current, feeding didn't go well this morning. Some of the harlequin rasboras ate, but the neons weren't strong enough to get anything, as soon as they stopped swimming against the flow to grab food they got swept away. I wonder if I go back to the good ole air powered sponge for filtration and put the speed control intake back on the pump so I can slow it down would work. That way the pump is just for flow while the sponge filter is, well, filtering. 

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On 1/2/2023 at 9:01 AM, A3M0N said:

All that said, I think the flow is still too strong even with the spray bar. The fish are constantly having to swim against the current, feeding didn't go well this morning. Some of the harlequin rasboras ate, but the neons weren't strong enough to get anything, as soon as they stopped swimming against the flow to grab food they got swept away. I wonder if I go back to the good ole air powered sponge for filtration and put the speed control intake back on the pump so I can slow it down would work. That way the pump is just for flow while the sponge filter is, well, filtering. 

I use my hand to feel how intense it is.  Essentially on mine, I get about.... 4" of output flow on my tank.  Yours is pointed up a bit, maybe things will even out if you modify it to a 30degree or lower angle (force the water to ripple the top of the tank).  If you need it at all I can record mine and show you.  Secondly, you are running the "prefilter" of sorts but if you have any other issues, take some photos or a video showing how you have everything together and maybe there is something we can see.  To get "less flow" all you really need to do is add more holes.  Maybe something like this will work to calm the flow:

image.png.2d93ca5c82a900db8805db0340280c1c.png

Right now you're running I think 5-6 holes.  Diameter looks pretty good.  You can add 2-3 more holes in that line and that would further diffuse the output without much affect on your setup.  Secondly you can slightly (and I do mean slight) modify the holes themselves.  Adding 5-10% to the diameter is at the most I would go before getting too frustrated with the thing. 

Lastly, if all else fails, add 3-4 holes on the back of the bar, these would push flow directly into the glass but it would cut your output on the main side by about 20% I would think.

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On 1/2/2023 at 11:23 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Yours is pointed up a bit, maybe things will even out if you modify it to a 30degree or lower angle (force the water to ripple the top of the tank).

I had it pointed upwards thinking that would deaden the flow a bit but taking your advice I rotated it down and now it's just about level and the fish are swimming much easier now. I forgot the size of the holes, I made it as a test a while back but it works pretty good in this situation. I need to get some suction cups to make it all more solid. 

If this works well for a bit I'll cut some new pieces and paint them black. I only wish the spray bar could fit higher up on the side, I bet only the intake and output need to be underwater but I don't want to risk it! I really don't want to make this more complicated that it already is, but I could put the pump lower in the tank and use outflow pipe to route it higher. Would the outflow near the top be better for flow, or just aesthetics? 

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On 1/2/2023 at 1:37 PM, A3M0N said:

I really don't want to make this more complicated that it already is, but I could put the pump lower in the tank and use outflow pipe to route it higher. Would the outflow near the top be better for flow, or just aesthetics? 

In a perfect world the spraybar would be at the waterline or slightly below.  I keep my pump submerged but the output as high as I can.  Longer flow path (across the topmost layer of the water) does diffuse the flow a bit for the fish.  It hits at a 90 degree or something into the glass wall, that's where you see the majority of the flow get diffused.  If you were to point it slightly down then you'd improve circulation mid-water.  Pointing it up, not sure why it had a negative affect, but my suspicion is that the flow was just concentrated to that half of the tank in a circle whereas now it's more of that oval shape.

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This is what I came up with, but I didn't use it. This setup did get the spray bar at the top of the water line but was too tall for my tank. It may fit well in a taller tank though. I ended up going back to basically what I had before, unfortunately. 

What I wanted to point out though was the connections. I used a bit of 1/2in ID, 5/8in OD tubing as a shim between the 12mm output and 1/2in PVC (circled in red). It fits very tight but not permanent, I considered using silicone but didn't really want to go that route. 

Anyway, I'll update my journal with a picture of in my aquarium later on. 

IMG20230106170232.jpg.f916a4d60b4217f67863423bccdbcfa3.jpg

IMG20230106182335.jpg.2edc0d1429537f6a26d133f9bc8acb2c.jpg

IMG20230106170232_zoomed_c.png.9080f8224ac182e101dab945ccd15dea.png

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I took your advice, good call. I like it much better this way. I also added a few more holes, I feel like the little fish are still having to work too hard to move around the tank. Maybe I'm not giving them enough credit? I dunno, I'm new!  (I always made a joke when I was in the Air Force that I was new, if not a new troop, then I was a new <insert rank>, new supervisor, new to <insert skill here>, etc.) 

Along with not being able to move around, if I leave the pump on for feeding the sinking pellets get caught in the flow and most end up going straight to the bottom of the left side/end and the flakes just swirl around on the surface. The rasboras will go up and get the flakes, but the neons just wander around. If I turn the pump off, the food never seems to sink and a similar issue happens. Who knew a filter change would cause so much drama?! lol! 

IMG20230113230503_square.jpg.fb5317bc5493f55a9493a9840273a765.jpg

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