Choosing what tank to use co2 in

[Gannon]

I'm heavily considering getting the co-op co2 stuff and giving it a shot. I keep mostly low to some medium light plants. I've always been able to succeed with flying colors with tanks in their first year, but afterwards plants die back moderately and kind of stagnate. In my 29g I use to have a full dwarf sag carpet without co2 and a bunch of crazy java fern growth, both of these are nowhere near what they once were, same goes for the amazon sword and anubias plants in my 125. I decided that co2 would be something to try that might really help me out with this. I first wanted to ask if there is any risk with using co2 on a stocked and established tank? I also wanted to get your opinion on which tank would be better for a beginner to start with, the 29 or 125 gallon tank? Both tanks have a sandy substrate, the 29g has a finnex 24/7 HLC light, the 125 has 2 36 inch nicrew planted lights, though I've been told I may need a couple more lights to meet the needs of plants (let me know your thoughts on that too if you have any). If there are any important details or anything I left out let me know and I can clarify. 

Both tanks would be a good choice, though the fish in my 125 im very attached to so if there could be any risk for a beginner it may be good to do the 29g. 

[AllFishNoBrakes]

I run c02 in 4 of my 13 tanks. 
-20 gallon high. Baking soda and citric acid mix in a metal cylinder. 1 bubble per second. 
-29 gallon. Baking soda and citric acid mix in a metal cylinder. Also 1 bubble per second. 
-I then have a 5 lb tank with 2 outputs. 1 goes to a 29 at 1 bubble per second. The other output goes to a 55 gallon at 3 bubbles per second. 
 

I used drop checkers when I first set them up. My goal was to be nowhere near 30ppm c02, but wanted a tool to be sure. I don’t even use the drop checkers anymore since I now know that the c02 I’m injecting simply helps ensure the plants don’t run out. I believe a drop checker is good in the beginning simply so you have a visual reference of what’s happening in your tank. Remember that a drop checker takes like 2 hours to register anything, so the color (pH) is a look back in time roughly 2 hours ago. 
 

All tanks were established when I added c02. I saw no detrimental effects and only saw better plant growth. Again, I’m not trying to maximize, simply want to ensure the plants don’t run out. 
 

With better (but not maximum) plant growth I’ve noticed way less algae growth. Always a plus!

c02 kicks on an hour before lights, and turns off an hour before lights off. 
 

All tanks run Aquaneat lights. Nothing fancy, but gets the job done to my liking on a budget with 13 tanks. 
 

I think the 29 would be a good place to get your feet wet and play around. If you like it, feel confident, and want to do it again you could always add on or get another set up for the 125. Just my 2 cents from my personal experience! Holler if you have any questions! I’m no expert, but always happy to help if I can 

[Gannon]

On 12/17/2022 at 1:17 PM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

I run c02 in 4 of my 13 tanks. 
-20 gallon high. Baking soda and citric acid mix in a metal cylinder. 1 bubble per second. 
-29 gallon. Baking soda and citric acid mix in a metal cylinder. Also 1 bubble per second. 
-I then have a 5 lb tank with 2 outputs. 1 goes to a 29 at 1 bubble per second. The other output goes to a 55 gallon at 3 bubbles per second. 
 

I used drop checkers when I first set them up. My goal was to be nowhere near 30ppm c02, but wanted a tool to be sure. I don’t even use the drop checkers anymore since I now know that the c02 I’m injecting simply helps ensure the plants don’t run out. I believe a drop checker is good in the beginning simply so you have a visual reference of what’s happening in your tank. Remember that a drop checker takes like 2 hours to register anything, so the color (pH) is a look back in time roughly 2 hours ago. 
 

All tanks were established when I added c02. I saw no detrimental effects and only saw better plant growth. Again, I’m not trying to maximize, simply want to ensure the plants don’t run out. 
 

With better (but not maximum) plant growth I’ve noticed way less algae growth. Always a plus!

c02 kicks on an hour before lights, and turns off an hour before lights off. 
 

All tanks run Aquaneat lights. Nothing fancy, but gets the job done to my liking on a budget with 13 tanks. 
 

I think the 29 would be a good place to get your feet wet and play around. If you like it, feel confident, and want to do it again you could always add on or get another set up for the 125. Just my 2 cents from my personal experience! Holler if you have any questions! I’m no expert, but always happy to help if I can 

sounds like a good plan. I'm guessing it would be easier to get a pressurized tank. And is there a more immediate way to check co2 levels so i don't put too much in and suffocate my tank or get the ph swinging too low?

[Patrick_G]

If your tanks are close together you can run both off of one co2 regulator. 
 

I’ve been running very low concentration on my 75 gallon, about 2-3 bubbles per sec. Like you, I’m basically trying to prevent my plants from stagnating. I have a dual stage regulator and I feel pretty confident that I’m not putting my fish in danger. 

[Gannon]

On 12/17/2022 at 1:36 PM, Patrick_G said:

If your tanks are close together you can run both off of one co2 regulator. 
 

I’ve been running very low concentration on my 75 gallon, about 2-3 bubbles per sec. Like you, I’m basically trying to prevent my plants from stagnating. I have a dual stage regulator and I feel pretty confident that I’m not putting my fish in danger. 

They are in the same room but are on different walls unfortunately.

On 12/17/2022 at 1:36 PM, Patrick_G said:

If your tanks are close together you can run both off of one co2 regulator. 
 

I’ve been running very low concentration on my 75 gallon, about 2-3 bubbles per sec. Like you, I’m basically trying to prevent my plants from stagnating. I have a dual stage regulator and I feel pretty confident that I’m not putting my fish in danger. 

also whats a dual stage regulator? does the aquarium co-op regulator have that. sorry im a newbie to co2. 

[Patrick_G]

On 12/17/2022 at 12:13 PM, Gannon said:

They are in the same room but are on different walls unfortunately.

also whats a dual stage regulator? does the aquarium co-op regulator have that. sorry im a newbie to co2. 

It has one stage for the tank pressure and one for the output pressure, it can be confusing because some regulators have two gauges but are single stage. The Aquarium Co-op one is a true dual stage unit. It’s supposed to prevent something called end of tank dump where all the co2 in a tank discharges at once. 

[AllFishNoBrakes]

On 12/17/2022 at 12:27 PM, Gannon said:

I'm guessing it would be easier to get a pressurized tank.

The baking soda and citric acid mix metal canisters are a good intermediate place to start. It’s not the yeast and sugar method with empty soda bottles and no solenoid (so it’s always on), and it’s not a full 5 lb tank. I started with a system off Amazon for ~$120 if I remember correctly, and then had to buy the citric acid and baking soda. 

I run this exact system on my 20 high:

https://www.amazon.com/ZRDR-Generator-Pressure-Automatic-Aquarium/dp/B0B76HP53B/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?crid=306QPKGXW9OEW&keywords=diy%2Bco2%2Bkit%2Bfor%2Baquarium%2Bplants&qid=1671308932&sprefix=diy%2Bco2%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-1-spons&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.f5122f16-c3e8-4386-bf32-63e904010ad0&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyRk1JWkc5VDhLRzRVJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDM4NDAyMUFKSEhTSkwwNDRCWSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwODQ2ODc0MUozNU9YMDdMRjg4NyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX3Bob25lX3NlYXJjaF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl&th=1
 

I shared the link to the bigger 4 liter system, but I run the 2 liter system. A fresh batch of c02 lasts me 4-6 weeks at 1 bubble per second and the system on 10 hours per day. With this kit you’ll just need to buy the citric acid and baking soda and you’re off and running.

This ad will also have tons of other options to look at. When looking/comparing make sure whatever you get comes with the solenoid and power cord!

 

On 12/17/2022 at 12:27 PM, Gannon said:

And is there a more immediate way to check co2 levels so i don't put too much in and suffocate my tank or get the ph swinging too low?

A digital pH meter or simply testing pH with liquid or strip tests will tell you. I basically saw no pH swing in either 29 gallon tank at 1 bubble per second with a drop checker. 
 

Edited December 17, 2022 by AllFishNoBrakes

[Gannon]

On 12/17/2022 at 2:18 PM, Patrick_G said:

It has one stage for the tank pressure and one for the output pressure, it can be confusing because some regulators have two gauges but are single stage. The Aquarium Co-op one is a true dual stage unit. It’s supposed to prevent something called end of tank dump where all the co2 in a tank discharges at once. 

Would you recommend the co-op one then?

On 12/17/2022 at 2:21 PM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

The baking soda and citric acid mix metal canisters are a good intermediate place to start. It’s not the yeast and sugar method with empty soda bottles and no solenoid (so it’s always on), and it’s not a full 5 lb tank. I started with a system off Amazon for ~$120 if I remember correctly, and then had to buy the citric acid and baking soda. 

I run this exact system on my 20 high:

https://www.amazon.com/ZRDR-Generator-Pressure-Automatic-Aquarium/dp/B0B76HP53B/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?crid=306QPKGXW9OEW&keywords=diy%2Bco2%2Bkit%2Bfor%2Baquarium%2Bplants&qid=1671308932&sprefix=diy%2Bco2%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-1-spons&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.f5122f16-c3e8-4386-bf32-63e904010ad0&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyRk1JWkc5VDhLRzRVJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDM4NDAyMUFKSEhTSkwwNDRCWSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwODQ2ODc0MUozNU9YMDdMRjg4NyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX3Bob25lX3NlYXJjaF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl&th=1
 

I shared the link to the bigger 4 liter system, but I run the 2 liter system. A fresh batch of c02 lasts me 4-6 weeks at 1 bubble per second and the system on 10 hours per day. With this kit you’ll just need to buy the citric acid and baking soda and you’re off and running.

This ad will also have tons of other options to look at. When looking/comparing make sure whatever you get comes with the solenoid and power cord!

 

A digital pH meter or simply testing pH with liquid or strip tests will tell you. I basically saw no pH swing in either 29 gallon tank at 1 bubble per second with a drop checker. 
 

so the DIY stuff only lasts 4-6 weeks and tanks would be longer?

[AllFishNoBrakes]

On 12/17/2022 at 1:48 PM, Gannon said:

so the DIY stuff only lasts 4-6 weeks and tanks would be longer?

Each batch of c02 I make (200 grams citric acid, 200 grams baking soda, 300 ml water) lasts 4-6 weeks. Probably closer to 6 at 1 bubble per second. 
 

5 lb tanks last longer (as they’re much bigger) cost me $12-15 to exchange, but it’s more cost up front. I had to buy the tank itself (~$100-120), then I had to buy the regulator, and the diffusers, and the c02 line, etc. Much more additional cost up front for sure. The other really annoying part to me was I bought a shiny new 5 lb tank, but my local welding supply doesn’t fill on site. I could either A) wait 7-10 days for them to send it to be filled and then come back or B) exchange on the spot for a tank that was already filled and sitting there. I chose to exchange and handed them my shiny brand new tank as I didn’t want to wait 7-10 days every time I needed a fill. 
 

If I was you, I’d get the Amazon kit (2 liter kit is $80 and lasts me 4-6 weeks per batch made) that has everything you need minus the citric acid and baking soda and try it out. If you love it, you could do a bigger system (5 lb tank) for your 125. Makes the most sense to me at least. 

[Patrick_G]

On 12/17/2022 at 12:48 PM, Gannon said:

Would you recommend the co-op one then?

I have one myself and although I haven’t set it up I’d say it looks better built and costs less than the FZone one I’m currently using. Many other forum members recommend GLA regulators but they’re a bit more expensive. 

[Gannon]

On 12/17/2022 at 3:12 PM, Patrick_G said:

I have one myself and although I haven’t set it up I’d say it looks better built and costs less than the FZone one I’m currently using. Many other forum members recommend GLA regulators but they’re a bit more expensive. 

whats the benefit of gla

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/17/2022 at 11:36 AM, Patrick_G said:

I’ve been running very low concentration on my 75 gallon, about 2-3 bubbles per sec. Like you, I’m basically trying to prevent my plants from stagnating. I have a dual stage regulator and I feel pretty confident that I’m not putting my fish in danger. 

I have always been timid when it came to setting up / starting pressurized CO2.  After having it, setting it up, it's genius and very, very helpful.  I wouldn't not have it (cost aside) on any planted tank I want as a display tank moving forward.  It's just something that helps.  It's always been hard for me to screw it up as long as you use the timers and the correct method and starting points.  Obviously, don't turn it on full bore and walk away.  If you do things right, all fine.

On 12/17/2022 at 12:48 PM, Gannon said:

so the DIY stuff only lasts 4-6 weeks and tanks would be longer?

Even just a sodastream CO2 bottle would be monumentally better.

[Patrick_G]

On 12/17/2022 at 7:48 PM, Gannon said:

whats the benefit of gla

I haven't tried one of their regulators, but they're popular and have a good reputation. Maybe someone who has used both GLA and Fzone can comment. 

 

[Gannon]

On 12/18/2022 at 3:06 PM, Patrick_G said:

I haven't tried one of their regulators, but they're popular and have a good reputation. Maybe someone who has used both GLA and Fzone can comment. 

 

I have one more question. I have a less powerful heater in my 29 gallon tank so I run a strong bubbler and my filter output right next to the heater so it can adequately heat the tank. I rarely if ever have seen bubblers and co2 used in the same tank, but maybe I'm mistaken. Would a bubbler somehow interfere with co2 injection, but having too much surface movement, oxygenation, gas exchange or something? Thanks.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Gannon

[Patrick_G]

On 12/19/2022 at 10:11 AM, Gannon said:

Would a bubbler somehow interfere with co2 injection, but having too much surface movement, oxygenation, gas exchange or something? Thanks.

I understand that it better to just run the bubbler at night when then the co2 is off, but I'm pretty new to co2, maybe @Mmiller2001has a better more in depth answer.

[AllFishNoBrakes]

I run sponge filters in all my tanks. C02 enthusiasts will you tell you that’s bad and you shouldn’t do it because you’re wasting/gassing off c02, but I believe the amount “wasted” to be extremely minimal. I will always run air in any tank. 
 

In the most recent ACO video of Cory in the fish room he sets up c02 with a sponge filter and talks about it. 

[Mmiller2001]

On 12/19/2022 at 11:44 AM, Patrick_G said:

I understand that it better to just run the bubbler at night when then the co2 is off, but I'm pretty new to co2, maybe @Mmiller2001has a better more in depth answer.

I don't run any type of air in my tanks, I just make sure to have very good surface agitation; which a bubbler does pretty well. O2 and CO2 are independent of each other. You want to have as much O2 and CO2 (without gassing fish) as possible. When lights are off, CO2 is not needed so you can turn off CO2 during that time. Turning CO2 on 2 hours before lights on will return the tank to optimal CO2 levels. 

The optimal surface agitation gasses off CO2 at a high/optimal rate and is the preferred way to maintain stability.

Here's an awesome article explaining this process.

https://www.2hraquarist.com/blogs/choosing-co2-why/how-to-push-the-limits-of-co2-safely?_pos=3&_sid=5597932da&_ss=r

Edited December 19, 2022 by Mmiller2001

[Gannon]

On 12/19/2022 at 12:44 PM, Patrick_G said:

I understand that it better to just run the bubbler at night when then the co2 is off, but I'm pretty new to co2, maybe @Mmiller2001has a better more in depth answer.

 

On 12/19/2022 at 1:10 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

I don't run any type of air in my tanks, I just make sure to have very good surface agitation; which a bubbler does pretty well. O2 and CO2 are independent of each other. You want to have as much O2 and CO2 (without gassing fish) as possible. When lights are off, CO2 is not needed so you can turn off CO2 during that time. Turning CO2 on 2 hours before lights on will return the tank to optimal CO2 levels. 

The optimal surface agitation gasses off CO2 at a high/optimal rate and is the preferred way to maintain stability.

Here's an awesome article explaining this process.

https://www.2hraquarist.com/blogs/choosing-co2-why/how-to-push-the-limits-of-co2-safely?_pos=3&_sid=5597932da&_ss=r

 

On 12/19/2022 at 12:49 PM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

I run sponge filters in all my tanks. C02 enthusiasts will you tell you that’s bad and you shouldn’t do it because you’re wasting/gassing off c02, but I believe the amount “wasted” to be extremely minimal. I will always run air in any tank. 
 

In the most recent ACO video of Cory in the fish room he sets up c02 with a sponge filter and talks about it. 

Thanks for all the answers! I might upgrade the heater, or replace the bubbler with a small powerhead or something if things dont work out. 

[AllFishNoBrakes]

I really enjoy the DIY canisters/kits that I shared the link to. It’s a nice way to try it out that’s not bottom of the barrel, or top dollar either. Treat yourself for Christmas with one and holler if you have any questions!