Clear aquaponics HOB filter passion project

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/5/2022 at 7:52 PM, Caidenh24 said:

I can't measure the light blue area because I can't fit small jaws that are used for measuring inside of stuff in there. It barely doesn't work. Also what does measuring the dark blue area do? also for outside dimension do you mean the outside like sides of the channel? What do you mean by the offset how do I find it with the offset? Thanks!

I updated the post, be sure to take a look.

The dark blue line measurement gives you a basis.  Everything for drawings is usually centered along your centerline. The part itself is symmetrical. So that blue line gives you a center on the part that you can use to base all of your other dimensions. 

Offset is a command in drawing programs.  So whether it's from your center, from an edge, whatever that is, you can "offset" to get a line parallel at a certain distance.
 

Yes, outside meaning the outside edge on the outside face of the lid. (the outer part of the lip of the lid. Not the latch, but the actual lid itself.

Edited December 6, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Caidenh24]

On 12/5/2022 at 7:55 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I updated the post, be sure to take a look.

The dark blue line measurement gives you a basis.  Everything for drawings is usually centered along your centerline. The part itself is symmetrical. So that blue line gives you a center on the part that you can use to base all of your other dimensions. 

Offset is a command in drawing programs.  So whether it's from your center, from an edge, whatever that is, you can "offset" to get a line parallel at a certain distance.
 

Yes, outside meaning the outside edge on the outside face of the lid. (the outer part of the lip of the lid. Not the latch, but the actual lid itself.

Ok thanks it works up to the last part because the latch gets in the way. Unless I am doing it wrong. Thanks!

 

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/5/2022 at 8:15 PM, Caidenh24 said:

Ok thanks it works up to the last part because the latch gets in the way. Unless I am doing it wrong. Thanks!

You should be able to put something in the cavity like you had, use the depth gauge and then measure it here right after the latch so the latch is out of the way.

[Caidenh24]

On 12/5/2022 at 8:28 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

You should be able to put something in the cavity like you had, use the depth gauge and then measure it here right after the latch so the latch is out of the way.

It worked but the measurements don't equal what they should I made a video explaining what I am doing. to see if I am doing anything wrong. also how do I get the width of the middle canal part? Thanks! 

 

[nabokovfan87]

So there is some confusion here, but not your fault.  The part you have is injection molded which means there is a draft on the sides to release the part from the tool.

The dimension at the Top or Middle is what I would use (or just pick a value you want to use that makes sense (measurement is slightly below a std. value, I would use the std value).  If you want to model the draft on the part this would be how you do it...

Remember, everything is off a centerline. So the CL here is the middle of the lip. you have the width at the top, width at the bottom, and your height. Draw those lines, then you just connect them.  Most 3d programs will have a tool for adding draft. Normally you'd leave it as a standard flat design and then add the draft afterwards once the model is "done".  This also makes it easier to edit long term.


Second dimension, yes there is a radius on the corner there, but you should be able to measure it.  The difference in value is likely just due to how tight you're pushing the calipers.  either dimension will suffice. You're measuring plastic, so there is some deflection unfortunately.

On your third dimension, you'd want to use the depth gauge (the end of the caliper)

Edited December 6, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Caidenh24]

On 12/5/2022 at 9:15 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

So there is some confusion here, but not your fault.  The part you have is injection molded which means there is a draft on the sides to release the part from the tool.

The dimension at the Top or Middle is what I would use (or just pick a value you want to use that makes sense (measurement is slightly below a std. value, I would use the std value).  If you want to model the draft on the part this would be how you do it...

Remember, everything is off a centerline. So the CL here is the middle of the lip. you have the width at the top, width at the bottom, and your height. Draw those lines, then you just connect them.  Most 3d programs will have a tool for adding draft. Normally you'd leave it as a standard flat design and then add the draft afterwards once the model is "done".  This also makes it easier to edit long term.
 

ok that makes sense now. What is a std. value and now with the measurements I have now what do I need to measure to find the width of the inside of the canal? Thanks for the help!

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/5/2022 at 9:20 PM, Caidenh24 said:

ok that makes sense now. What is a std. value and now with the measurements I have now what do I need to measure to find the width of the inside of the canal? Thanks for the help!

For metric, I would assume the standards would be 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, etc.

I can't say with certainty, but that's where I would start
https://www.gsa.gov/cdnstatic/Metric_Design_Guide_PQ_-_260.pdf

Check the section under mechanical and see if that helps at all.
 

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Caidenh24]

On 12/5/2022 at 9:23 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

For metric, I would assume the standards would be 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, etc.

I can't say with certainty, but that's where I would start
https://www.gsa.gov/cdnstatic/Metric_Design_Guide_PQ_-_260.pdf

Check the section under mechanical and see if that helps at all.

 

yeah I didn't understand it It was just listing products that could be used on a metric project. What do you mean standards? I couldn't find anything on them. Thanks!

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/5/2022 at 9:52 PM, Caidenh24 said:

What do you mean standards?

Sorry. Standards just means either a documented or industry accepted practice. In the US we use 1/8, 1/16th of an inch increments for a lot of measurements. In the EU, I assume things are based on 10's, but I don't know for certain. I haven't seen a ton of EU / Metric drawings.

I apologize it's confusing. It's difficult to find the paperwork on my side, but I'll try tomorrow and use a .co.uk address and see what I can find. A lot of the results I was getting was transitioning US to EU units and how to do that.

Did you see the bit about using the depth gauge to get that last measurement you needed?

[Caidenh24]

On 12/5/2022 at 11:05 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Sorry. Standards just means either a documented or industry accepted practice. In the US we use 1/8, 1/16th of an inch increments for a lot of measurements. In the EU, I assume things are based on 10's, but I don't know for certain. I haven't seen a ton of EU / Metric drawings.

I apologize it's confusing. It's difficult to find the paperwork on my side, but I'll try tomorrow and use a .co.uk address and see what I can find. A lot of the results I was getting was transitioning US to EU units and how to do that.

Did you see the bit about using the depth gauge to get that last measurement you needed?

Oh ok thanks that makes sense. I went to bed so I am just reading this. I didn’t get the depth gauge one, I don’t know where to look.  I will try finding it. Thanks!

 

Edit: the mechanical area didn’t really have anything on using calipers to measure. Also I can use the depth gauge to find the thickness? Thanks!

Edited December 6, 2022 by Caidenh24

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/6/2022 at 5:30 AM, Caidenh24 said:

Also I can use the depth gauge to find the thickness? Thanks!

Yes.  When the jaws don't fit use the depth gauge.  If you need to do something like put a flat piece against an edge, that would give you the ability to use the depth gauge as opposed to the jaws to find your dimension.
 

 

Another good example measuring the feature on this block
 

 

[Caidenh24]

On 12/6/2022 at 10:56 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Yes.  When the jaws don't fit use the depth gauge.  If you need to do something like put a flat piece against an edge, that would give you the ability to use the depth gauge as opposed to the jaws to find your dimension.
 

 

Another good example measuring the feature on this block
 

 

ok thanks I will see it that works better than what I tried. I put the silicon gasket in and use it as the edge and it worked. but when I try measuring the length of the whole thing it measures the wider part of the inside lip so I don´t get a accurate measurment. So I don´t know how to measure the length of the whole thing including the small lip, big lip, and channel. here is a image explaining it better. Showing what part of the big lip it is measuring. Would it be better to take the individual lengths of everything and then add them together to get the total length? Thanks! 

Red color is the container. and the angled peice is the part that is the injected molded part that you drew and modeled earlier. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:29 AM, Caidenh24 said:

So I don´t know how to measure the length of the whole thing including the small lip, big lip, and channel. here is a image explaining it better.

Keep in mind both the inner and outer lip will have draft. One might be more apparent than the other, but both will have some sort of a draft angle to it.

What you're showing is perfect, measure it just like that. Keep in mind, you're hand measuring a part. It's not a laser scan or something like that and you'll get a model that "works" if you measure as best you can.

Yes, the draft angle makes things annoying, but it is there.  Try to measure at the bottom of the lip when you can (highest draft angle / thickness) so whatever dimensions you have are at their highest value.

On 12/6/2022 at 11:29 AM, Caidenh24 said:

Would it be better to take the individual lengths of everything and then add them together to get the total length?

I would measure overall as well as any individual dimensions you can get accurately. They both should make sense. Use the overall to guide any confusion though.

[Caidenh24]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:35 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Keep in mind both the inner and outer lip will have draft. One might be more apparent than the other, but both will have some sort of a draft angle to it.

What you're showing is perfect, measure it just like that. Keep in mind, you're hand measuring a part. It's not a laser scan or something like that and you'll get a model that "works" if you measure as best you can.

Yes, the draft angle makes things annoying, but it is there.  Try to measure at the bottom of the lip when you can (highest draft angle / thickness) so whatever dimensions you have are at their highest value.

Ok Thanks! I will just change the measurments of those to their largest draft angle. I am now realizing I can´t make it perfect.

 

On 12/6/2022 at 11:35 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I would measure overall as well as any individual dimensions you can get accurately. They both should make sense. Use the overall to guide any confusion though.

Ok. the individual is usually different from the overall not by a lot usally by like 0.1-0.3 mm because of the draft. My measurments can´t really get super accurate because of the draft and which angle I put the caliper to the edges of the lips to make the total measurment. I try to make it parrallel to it but it is kind of hard with the draft. Does this make sense? What confusion would I be guiding? Thanks!

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:46 AM, Caidenh24 said:

I try to make it parrallel to it but it is kind of hard with the draft. Does this make sense? What confusion would I be guiding? Thanks!

Understandable, just measure it and go with the number that you get. measure it 5-10x if you want and take an average if you want to. I'm just saying, it's not laser guided and the dimensions aren't that critical (non-metal parts) so just try to do your best and go with what you get.

[Caidenh24]

On 12/6/2022 at 1:12 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Understandable, just measure it and go with the number that you get. measure it 5-10x if you want and take an average if you want to. I'm just saying, it's not laser guided and the dimensions aren't that critical (non-metal parts) so just try to do your best and go with what you get.

ok thanks!

[Caidenh24]

On 12/5/2022 at 9:15 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Second dimension, yes there is a radius on the corner there, but you should be able to measure it.  The difference in value is likely just due to how tight you're pushing the calipers.  either dimension will suffice. You're measuring plastic, so there is some deflection unfortunately.

On your third dimension, you'd want to use the depth gauge (the end of the caliper)

Sorry I didn't see you edited this and added stuff. how hard do you want to squeeze the calipers? Thanks!

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:06 PM, Caidenh24 said:

how hard do you want to squeeze the calipers

Don't want to deform anything. Just enough to get a good reading. You can also get a reading, tighten them down and then they won't move and you can verify it that way. (Remeasure without the jaws moving)

[Caidenh24]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:22 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Don't want to deform anything. Just enough to get a good reading. You can also get a reading, tighten them down and then they won't move and you can verify it that way. (Remeasure without the jaws moving)

mine don´t have the tightening feature. I bought mine before realizing the more expensive ones have more features.

I put my measurements in a google doc. for the channel measurements. Which one do you think is more accurate? Thanks! 

Sorry forgot link https://docs.google.com/document/d/10HIB1gBYse9lcu7-WvsKyMpPcq4KQ_fR6FO_1mBlaA0/edit?usp=sharing

Edited December 7, 2022 by Caidenh24
forgot link

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:39 PM, Caidenh24 said:

I put my measurements in a google doc. for the channel measurements. Which one do you think is more accurate? Thanks! 

It's really difficult to understand that document of measurements without any context. Can you label the dimensions on a sketch? If you have multiple then just list all the numbers applicable.

[Caidenh24]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:47 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

It's really difficult to understand that document of measurements without any context. Can you label the dimensions on a sketch? If you have multiple then just list all the numbers applicable.

yeah I can. Sorry it took forever. I am slow at sketching. Especially with touch pad. What dimension do you think is more accurate for the channel? The one with the step gauge or the one with the depth meter? Thanks!

[nabokovfan87]

Keep in mind that you have draft on both ribs. 2.X on the shorter height and 1.6 on the taller one.

Drawing them straight, your dimension for the ribs is very likely 2.0mm or 2.5mm and then draft was added. Use either one of those and that is likely fine for your model. The channel gap, just make it make sense on an even value so 4mm is what I would use.

If you're seeing a major size difference on the ribs. Make the smaller one 2.0 and the bigger one 2.5mm. gap stays at 4mm in either case.

I think big/small might be referring to height, unsure.

[Caidenh24]

On 12/7/2022 at 10:02 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Keep in mind that you have draft on both ribs. 2.X on the shorter height and 1.6 on the taller one.

Drawing them straight, your dimension for the ribs is very likely 2.0mm or 2.5mm and then draft was added. Use either one of those and that is likely fine for your model. The channel gap, just make it make sense on an even value so 4mm is what I would use.

If you're seeing a major size difference on the ribs. Make the smaller one 2.0 and the bigger one 2.5mm. gap stays at 4mm in either case.

I think big/small might be referring to height, unsure.

Sorry I forgot to respond. So you’re saying that it was 2 - 2.5 but when they added draft they made it larger? What makes you think it is around there? And for the channel are you saying use 4 mm sense it is an easier number and if is in the middle of the 2 measurments? Thanks for the help!

EDIT: I am not saying you are wrong by the way with those measurments I just don´t understand how you got those.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Caidenh24
Clarifying

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/7/2022 at 12:28 PM, Caidenh24 said:

So you’re saying that it was 2 - 2.5 but when they added draft they made it larger? What makes you think it is around there?

Essentially it's likely to be an "easy" value. It's not common to have random numbers for thicknesses of things. 1.8, 2.0, 2.2, etc would all be a long some sort of "common" scheme used for design. I can't say with certainty because I don't normally use mm for designs and I haven't had injection molded parts designed in mm.

That being said, the way the draft stuff works is that you're usually going to have a "normal" dimension and that's your model. Everything is reviewed and then you go back and add draft. Then that model is reviewed by manufacturing (injection molding is the tool maker) and they break down any issues that could come up. Common things being part thickness inconsistency which results In flow issues.

When you add draft, assuming everything is 2mm to start with. At the top of the lips/ribs you would have an angle of typically 0.5 degrees. Sometimes higher. For a small piece like that you can get away with a steeper angle pretty easily.  So on the lower height you'd have either...

The draft starting acuttingt the base and cutting into the part making the top dimension narrower

Or

The draft starts at the top surface and extends outward, adding material to the base of the rib.

That is why you're seeing the discrepancy on dimensions between the ribs. One of them has a different height, but they likely started with the same thickness and just have variation due to draft angles being applied.

Edited December 7, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Caidenh24]

On 12/7/2022 at 1:58 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Essentially it's likely to be an "easy" value. It's not common to have random numbers for thicknesses of things. 1.8, 2.0, 2.2, etc would all be a long some sort of "common" scheme used for design. I can't say with certainty because I don't normally use mm for designs and I haven't had injection molded parts designed in mm.

That being said, the way the draft stuff works is that you're usually going to have a "normal" dimension and that's your model.

oh ok that makes sense now. I will probably switch to inches I just thought mm might be more accurate. I am also use to inches more.

 

On 12/7/2022 at 1:58 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

That being said, the way the draft stuff works is that you're usually going to have a "normal" dimension and that's your model. Everything is reviewed and then you go back and add draft. Then that model is reviewed by manufacturing (injection molding is the tool maker) and they break down any issues that could come up. Common things being part thickness inconsistency which results In flow issues.

 

Is it reviewed before and after adding the draft? What do you mean injection molding is the tool maker? 

 

On 12/7/2022 at 1:58 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

When you add draft, assuming everything is 2mm to start with. At the top of the lips/ribs you would have an angle of typically 0.5 degrees. Sometimes higher. For a small piece like that you can get away with a steeper angle pretty easily.  So on the lower height you'd have either...

The draft starting acuttingt the base and cutting into the part making the top dimension narrower

Or

The draft starts at the top surface and extends outward, adding material to the base of the rib.

That is why you're seeing the discrepancy on dimensions between the ribs. One of them has a different height, but they likely started with the same thickness and just have variation due to draft angles being applied.

Ok that makes more sense. I am confused about when you said ¨The draft starting acuttingt the base and cutting into the part making the top dimension narrower¨. I am pretty sure there is a typo. Also the draft thing makes sense especially because even if they use the same draft angle the taller the object is, the wider it will get at the bottom because, the angle extends out more the longer it goes. Thanks!